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Old 01-10-2018, 01:20 PM
FoieGrasIsEvil FoieGrasIsEvil is online now
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Louisiana Teacher Handcuffed, Jailed For Speaking Out At School Board Meeting

Well...this is pretty fucked up. A teacher in Louisiana was removed from a school board meeting by a cop, handcuffed in the hallway, and taken to jail for raising concerns over the school superintendent's raise in pay.

http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/10/health...rnd/index.html
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Old 01-10-2018, 02:39 PM
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I used to live in Lafayette, just down the road. I hope that teacher gets a nice payout, either from the school or the marshall's office. At least a few years of the superintendant's raise.
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Old 01-10-2018, 02:42 PM
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That is totally fucked up. They're not going to prosecute? For what, freedom of speech?
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Old 01-10-2018, 02:55 PM
Jackmannii Jackmannii is online now
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Having covered a lot of school board meetings in my wasted youth, I can attest that:

1) there are a lot of clueless, loudmouthed audience/participants who don't know when to shut up, even when they've had more than enough time to express their angst over an issue.

2) there are plenty of clueless, power-mad school board members who run their little fiefdoms with an iron hand.

Hard to tell from the story which (or both) factors were in play. This particular teacher/parent apparently wound up in handcuffs after challenging a cop.
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Old 01-10-2018, 03:02 PM
FoieGrasIsEvil FoieGrasIsEvil is online now
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That is totally fucked up. They're not going to prosecute? For what, freedom of speech?
I know, right? Jeez, don't do me any favors...
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Old 01-10-2018, 03:23 PM
Rick Kitchen Rick Kitchen is online now
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Two female school board members are complaining that it's only women who ever get kicked out of the school board meetings

and

The school board's offices were closed today after death threats came from as far afield as England, Australia, and South Africa.
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Old 01-10-2018, 03:27 PM
Two Many Cats Two Many Cats is online now
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From what I understand the superintendant's raise was already a done deal, and the meeting was just for "comments from the public".

I like what the Young Turks said. When they planned the meeting, did they think everyone would clap?
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Old 01-10-2018, 03:40 PM
CookingWithGas CookingWithGas is offline
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Originally Posted by Jackmannii View Post
Having covered a lot of school board meetings in my wasted youth, I can attest that:

1) there are a lot of clueless, loudmouthed audience/participants who don't know when to shut up, even when they've had more than enough time to express their angst over an issue.

2) there are plenty of clueless, power-mad school board members who run their little fiefdoms with an iron hand.

Hard to tell from the story which (or both) factors were in play. This particular teacher/parent apparently wound up in handcuffs after challenging a cop.
If you watch the video in the link, you will see that #1 is absolutely not what happened. That woman made a calm, level-headed statement.
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Old 01-10-2018, 04:18 PM
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The issue that was claimed was that she was asking questions during a comment session.

Now, if someone phrases something as a question during comments is that grounds for arrest?

All the board had to do was NOT ANSWER!

Therefore they become ~rhetorical questions. She finishes her comments, sits down, life moves on.
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Old 01-10-2018, 04:22 PM
RTFirefly RTFirefly is offline
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If you watch the video in the link, you will see that #1 is absolutely not what happened. That woman made a calm, level-headed statement.
And when (apparently) asked to leave the meeting, she left under her own power, without the cop having to lay a hand on her.

But once out in the hall, he handcuffed her and forced her out of the building. It's hard to imagine any need for that. She had already left the meeting voluntarily. She was not trying to stay in the room, and once she left it, she wasn't trying to get back in. Whatever problem she may have represented, it didn't exist anymore by the time the handcuffs came out.
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Old 01-10-2018, 04:28 PM
RTFirefly RTFirefly is offline
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The issue that was claimed was that she was asking questions during a comment session.

Now, if someone phrases something as a question during comments is that grounds for arrest?

All the board had to do was NOT ANSWER!

Therefore they become ~rhetorical questions. She finishes her comments, sits down, life moves on.
Not to mention, sometimes you need to ask a question first to make sure your comment makes sense.

My local school board (Calvert County, MD) has the same stupid rule. At public meetings, you can make comments, but they won't answer questions. (No, I have no idea when citizens ARE supposed to be able to question their school board members.)
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Old 01-10-2018, 04:33 PM
FoieGrasIsEvil FoieGrasIsEvil is online now
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And when (apparently) asked to leave the meeting, she left under her own power, without the cop having to lay a hand on her.

But once out in the hall, he handcuffed her and forced her out of the building. It's hard to imagine any need for that. She had already left the meeting voluntarily. She was not trying to stay in the room, and once she left it, she wasn't trying to get back in. Whatever problem she may have represented, it didn't exist anymore by the time the handcuffs came out.
Not just that, the cop also shoved her to the floor once outside the room in the hallway, hurting her, in order to handcuff her. Then he has the audacity to tell her "stop resisting", when she clearly ISN'T. This is an audacious display of authoritarianism. "JUST COMPLY".

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Originally Posted by RTFirefly View Post
Not to mention, sometimes you need to ask a question first to make sure your comment makes sense.

My local school board (Calvert County, MD) has the same stupid rule. At public meetings, you can make comments, but they won't answer questions. (No, I have no idea when citizens ARE supposed to be able to question their school board members.)
They won't answer questions? The school board meetings? WTF? Like you said, if not then, then WHEN?
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Old 01-10-2018, 05:26 PM
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See, this is why you need strong teachers' unions.
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Old 01-10-2018, 05:52 PM
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Looks like it is time for the school board to update their resume's. That video will feature prominently when they come up for re-election. That teacher should be the first challenger.

And that cop should be fired.
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Old 01-10-2018, 05:55 PM
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All the board had to do was NOT ANSWER!
Except the board was answering the questions, making the whole situation even more mind boggling.
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Old 01-10-2018, 06:03 PM
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Good grief..that's just wrong. I have been to school board meetings when they got heated. The board members need to remember who they work for.
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Old 01-10-2018, 06:09 PM
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Around here, we got rid of a superintendent who pushed gave herself too large a salary. I actually refused to vote for a tax increase to help build a new school, because, the way our system is structured, if you don't get enough money, it comes out of the superintendent's salary. (It passed anyways. But still she was gone by the next year.)
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Old 01-10-2018, 06:12 PM
JackieLikesVariety JackieLikesVariety is offline
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Looks like it is time for the school board to update their resume's. That video will feature prominently when they come up for re-election. That teacher should be the first challenger.

And that cop should be fired.
hell yes
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Old 01-10-2018, 07:15 PM
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Did the cop not read about the cop who handcuffed the nurse?

I mean, the ex-cop who handcuffed the nurse...
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Old 01-10-2018, 10:55 PM
Snowboarder Bo Snowboarder Bo is offline
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The AP has a follow-up story: Louisiana teacher speaks out after arrest at board meeting
Quote:
“By taking away my voice they’ve taken away — or tried to take away — my First Amendment rights to speak,” Hargrave said in a video posted on the Louisiana Association of Educators’ Facebook page . “And I’m appalled at this, and you should be too.”

She expressed gratitude for support from students and parents in Vermilion Parish — about 150 miles west of New Orleans. “Go to your local school board meetings,” Hargrave said. “Speak out. Be vocal.”
Link to Facebook page with video.

Superintendent Moneybags says his life has been really hard since the meeting:
Quote:
Superintendent Jerome Puyau said the hate emails and phone calls began pouring in after videos spread.

"I’ve stopped reading them because they’re just so bad and disgusting,” Puyau said, at times struggling to compose himself in an interview with The Associated Press. He said the school system offices went into temporary lockdown, and his daughters had to delete threats on their social media.
But as far as I know, he's still taking the money. You'd think it would be easy to read a few thousand emails for 30 grand, but apparently it's too much to ask of this poor beleaguered public servant.

I've noticed that the "resource officer" has not been named in any of the articles I've read; has anyone seen him identified?

Last edited by Snowboarder Bo; 01-10-2018 at 10:57 PM.
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Old 01-10-2018, 11:18 PM
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I've noticed that the "resource officer" has not been named in any of the articles I've read; has anyone seen him identified?
Reggie Hilts
https://heavy.com/news/2018/01/reggi...shia-hargrave/
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Old 01-11-2018, 12:26 AM
Snowboarder Bo Snowboarder Bo is offline
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Some interesting things in that article; thanks for linking it.
Quote:
School Board President Anthony Fontana told KLFY-TV, “She was interrupting the board meeting. She wouldn’t allow that to happen in a classroom, and now she’s going to pull that stunt. A board member was getting ready to speak when she cut into him. That’s when the officer acted. I think he acted properly.”
I find this interesting because in my previous link there's this:
Quote:
Video of the meeting shows that Hargrave addressed the superintendent directly after she was asked by a board member to comment on the contract vote.

“How are you going to take that money, because it’s basically taken out of the pockets of teachers?” she said, prompting School Board President Anthony Fontana to bang his gavel.


“Stop right now! That’s not germane to what’s on the agenda tonight,” Fontana declared.

The crowd, now agitated, cried “Yes it is!” and the teacher pressed on, saying “this directly speaks to what you were just voting on.”

At that point, according to school board member Kibbie Pillette, Fontana beckoned to a school resource officer hired by the board, who confronted Hargrave, ordering her to get her things and go.
So the first thing is that School Board Asshat Fontana, with a gesture, gave direction to Officer Hilts to remove Miss Hargrave; Officer Hilts did not move to do that on his own. Yet School Board Jackasshole Fontana paints the picture so he personally had nothing to do with Miss Hargraves removal, it was all Officer Hilts decision (but he supports Officer Hilts' decision and actions).

Second, he lied about the circumstances that led to Miss Hargraves speaking. There's video; we can see that she was not speaking out of turn.

Third: what the fuck, Officer Hilts? What the fuck?

TL; DR: What a dishonest piece of shit this Fontana guy is. And what the fuck, Officer Hilts?
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Old 01-11-2018, 04:09 AM
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Wait a minute . . .

CNN has reached out to the city marshal's office for comment.


Reached out? Be careful -- this woman was just arrested for reaching out to the school board. We need to find a more cuddly euphemism for investigative reporters asking hard questions.
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Old 01-11-2018, 10:44 AM
Snowboarder Bo Snowboarder Bo is offline
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You mean something like "CNN has poked the hornet's nest that is the city marshal's office for comment"?

Oh wait, you mean more cuddly, not more direct.

How about "CNN has lovingly gazed into the abyss that is the city marshal's office for reassurance"?

Last edited by Snowboarder Bo; 01-11-2018 at 10:46 AM.
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Old 01-11-2018, 02:04 PM
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Superintendent = fat cat who wants to become fatter, news at 11.
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Old 01-11-2018, 02:23 PM
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And that cop should be fired.
He will probably receive a raise in salary.
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Old 01-11-2018, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Jackmannii View Post
Having covered a lot of school board meetings in my wasted youth, I can attest that:

1) there are a lot of clueless, loudmouthed audience/participants who don't know when to shut up, even when they've had more than enough time to express their angst over an issue.

2) there are plenty of clueless, power-mad school board members who run their little fiefdoms with an iron hand.

Hard to tell from the story which (or both) factors were in play. This particular teacher/parent apparently wound up in handcuffs after challenging a cop.
I admit when I first saw this reported with the title of "Teacher arrested for asking questions" my gut reaction was to think, no, the teacher was arrested for being belligerent/causing a scene after asking a question. Then I watched the video and boy was my gut wrong.
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Old 01-11-2018, 07:20 PM
cmkeller cmkeller is offline
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Alessan:

Quote:
See, this is why you need strong teachers' unions.
What does a union have to do with what happened?

I hope she sues the living crap out of the school board, the superintendent, and the marshal. They said they weren't going to sue her? Like they're doing her some sort of favor? Someone's been inhaling too much swamp gas.
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Old 01-11-2018, 07:44 PM
Snowboarder Bo Snowboarder Bo is offline
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What does a union have to do with what happened?
Glad you asked. A strong union would have negotiated pay raises (and other working conditions) that would not have led to the current situation, thus obviating the need for Miss Hargrave to speak out in the first place.

But the American public has been taught for over 50 years now that unions are evil and only want to destroy businesses and murder business owners and eat their children while performing Satanic rituals to heavy metal music...

Live better: work union.

Last edited by Snowboarder Bo; 01-11-2018 at 07:45 PM.
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Old 01-11-2018, 07:55 PM
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Snowboarder Bo:

Quote:
A strong union would have negotiated pay raises (and other working conditions) that would not have led to the current situation, thus obviating the need for Miss Hargrave to speak out in the first place.
So, because she would have gotten a raise, a raise for a superintendent who is making the teachers' jobs harder would have simply gone unchallenged, and that's a good thing?

I would hope someone still would have spoken up. And if they did, the school board and their goon would have done the same to them. And we'd be having this thread about that victim, and the matter of teachers' unions would have been moot.
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Old 01-11-2018, 07:59 PM
Sherrerd Sherrerd is online now
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... But the American public has been taught for over 50 years now that unions are evil and only want to destroy businesses and murder business owners and eat their children while performing Satanic rituals to heavy metal music...
Live better: work union.
With the Sinclair Broadcasting Group acquisition of Tribune Media*, and the consequent very-near-monopoly on local newscasting of the new behemoth, the anti-union message will become even more ubiquitous and inescapable.

And, jeez. I join those hoping that the Louisiana teacher can teach those bullies a lesson in court.



*Apparently the final finagling of the deal includes some Sinclair stations becoming Fox stations. Won't be a whole lot of difference, messaging-wise. From a local market, yesterday:

Quote:
... As previously reported, Sinclair Broadcast Group is hoping to buy Tribune Media Co. in a $3.9 billion deal that would create a national broadcasting monolith. Denver has two Tribune-owned stations: KDVR and KWGN.

At the same time, Rupert Murdoch’s 21st Century Fox is close to buying as many as 10 stations from Sinclair, probably including Denver’s KDVR, which might be spun off by Sinclair to win regulatory approval. Analysts note that Denver fits with Fox’s renewed interest in acquiring more local affiliates in midsized markets ...
https://www.denverpost.com/2018/01/1...-tribune-deal/
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Old 01-11-2018, 08:14 PM
Snowboarder Bo Snowboarder Bo is offline
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Snowboarder Bo:



So, because she would have gotten a raise, a raise for a superintendent who is making the teachers' jobs harder would have simply gone unchallenged, and that's a good thing?
Believe it or not, there are times when raises are necessary and even okay. If the district had enough money to give regular raises to teachers, it isn't a stretch to think that there would have been enough money for the school board to get raises as well.

If you'd like to posit a hypothetical where the teachers are screwed and the school board doesn't deserve a raise despite the presence of a strong teachers' union, I'd prolly agree that someone should speak up.

But the post that sparked the union discussion wasn't about how a union would have been ineffective, so I answered the question asked: "in what way might the presence of a strong teachers' union have been able to mitigate or avoid the current situation?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmkeller View Post
I would hope someone still would have spoken up. And if they did, the school board and their goon would have done the same to them. And we'd be having this thread about that victim, and the matter of teachers' unions would have been moot.
So in your opinion any raise for the school board member is automatically wrong and should be opposed?
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Old 01-11-2018, 08:36 PM
cmkeller cmkeller is offline
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Snowboarder Bo:

Quote:
Believe it or not, there are times when raises are necessary and even okay. If the district had enough money to give regular raises to teachers, it isn't a stretch to think that there would have been enough money for the school board to get raises as well.
Who says the only reason to oppose a superintendent's raise is a lack of teacher raises? Seems to me like the school board has a policy of suppressing dissent, and a similar thing would have happened to anyone who expressed opposition for whatever reason. Maybe if there were a strong teachers' union, this particular teacher wouldn't have had this particular objection. But a public body using force to suppress opposition to its policies is a bad thing, and the situation would have come about at some point, it seems to me.
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Old 01-12-2018, 12:26 AM
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With a teacher's union, it's likely the school board would be too scared to do anything like this. Fuck with a teacher, and the union comes down on you. And they'd have to essentially collude together (which is unlikely to happen) in order to suppress the parents or other citizens.

Unions don't exist just to negotiate contracts. They exist to create a balance of power. The problem in this situation seems to be a school board with too much power, thinking they could get away with abusing it.

I want everyone in power to be scared of what would happen if they were to abuse it. It's the only way to moderate our natural human tendency to allow power to corrupt.

Last edited by BigT; 01-12-2018 at 12:28 AM.
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Old 01-12-2018, 09:41 AM
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I hope she gets fired, gets a nice payout, then runs for school board and can then 1. fire that superintendent and then 2. give teachers raises.
  #36  
Old 01-12-2018, 09:48 AM
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Unions don't exist just to negotiate contracts. They exist to create a balance of power. The problem in this situation seems to be a school board with too much power, thinking they could get away with abusing it.
Many years ago the school superintendent came to our school to discuss renewing a particular reading program for our district. It was an expensive, non-viable program, and things that had been promised never came to pass (adequate supplies, extra staff to implement the program, etc.) It's an open secret that the big publishing companies pay off districts to buy new programs.

I stood up to express my concerns and to ask who was really benefiting from this deal, because it wasn't the children. The super's "handler" gasped his indignation, said how dare you accuse the superintendent of taking bribes! I had said no such thing, but by then they had both rushed out of the room. There were repercussions, but my teacher's union had my back. Thank goodness for their protection!
By the next school term the super was out on his behind, accused of (you guessed it) taking kickbacks.

TL/DR: Hats off to the brave teacher for speaking truth to power, and support your unions!
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Old 01-12-2018, 09:57 AM
Darren Garrison Darren Garrison is offline
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Unions don't exist just to negotiate contracts. They exist to create a balance of power.
They also exist to keep the incompetent and the corrupt from being fired. (Like bad cops and bad teachers.)
  #38  
Old 01-12-2018, 10:08 AM
casdave casdave is online now
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Yeah, that;s right, unions exist solely to ensure that workers can be lazy, inefficient and greedy - that's the whole purpose of unions.

Whereas managers are there only to provide good well paid jobs, good working conditions and supremely good value for money and are never in place to abuse their power or award themselves large bonuses, they are never in place to cut corners on safety, they are the most munificent individuals and should never ever be challenged or held accountable.

Yeah that's right. and we can all give oodles of examples of exemplars of such managers and unions - we can do this by carefully selecting our facts to suit our own pet right wing bias - there is never any need to actually look at the full picture - just stand on the outside of the tent and piss in.
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Old 01-12-2018, 10:13 AM
Darren Garrison Darren Garrison is offline
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I didn't say the only reason-- just one of them.
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Old 01-12-2018, 10:24 AM
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unions are evil and only want to destroy businesses and murder business owners and eat their children while performing Satanic rituals to heavy metal music...
No, it is Chicago Blues.
  #41  
Old 01-12-2018, 10:30 AM
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Fucked up removal and arrest aside, is a superintendent making $140k that unreasonable? And would the extra $30k a year they're paying for that job make any noticeable difference if spread evenly among all the faculty and staff?
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Old 01-12-2018, 10:31 AM
Hari Seldon Hari Seldon is online now
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They also exist to keep the incompetent and the corrupt from being fired. (Like bad cops and bad teachers.)
Sigh. I wish that weren't true, but it is. About 35 years ago, I was a member (non-voting parent representative) of our local school board. One case we discussed involved a teacher who simply could not maintain order in his classroom. The principal amassed a large dossier filled with complaints from students, from parents, and, most damning of all, from the teachers in adjacent classrooms whose classes were disturbed by the chaos next door. He was fired, the union took the school board to court and, astonishingly, won. The judge ruled that the principal must have started the school determined to get the teacher fired else he wouldn't have compiled that dossier.

A second case involved a teacher who never showed up (she was apparently suffering deep depression). Although the firing would have held up (I assume, but so did the union), the union came to the board and said, in effect, "Look, it will cost us at least $25,000 to fight this case and it will cost you the same. Are you willing to offer her $50,000, half from each of us, to resign?" They were and she took it.

Our meetings were always open to the public, but hardly anyone came. All the real decisions were taken in a "committee of the whole" that took place just before the public meeting, which just rubber-stamped them.
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Old 01-12-2018, 11:03 AM
Snowboarder Bo Snowboarder Bo is offline
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They also exist to keep the incompetent and the corrupt from being fired. (Like bad cops and bad teachers.)
No, they do not. My cite is every union charter ever; what's yours?
  #44  
Old 01-12-2018, 11:18 AM
casdave casdave is online now
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I didn't say the only reason-- just one of them.
Oh that's so much better isn't it.

This might surprise you but union members pay for union support, and expect in return to receive a service.

As a union rep I do not get to make a judgement on a personal case, my remit is to fulfill my role by providing support for which the member has paid, I don't get to choose how well or how badly I do that, I don't get to choose whom I support.

Do we argue that the main purpose of attorneys and lawyers is to ensure that criminals are set free? Idiots might decide that this is indeed their purpose, but in fact the real purpose is to hold authorities to account and provide evidence and proof and ensure that due process are followed.

This is similar to the role of the union advocate, as a union rep I do not write the contracts, but I may have a hand in negotiating terms and conditions - but this is at the behest of members and frequently it is useful for managers to have one place to refer their queries instead of deal with thousands of employees as individuals.

I am so disappointed with the arguments that right wing folk make, especially those on this board who surely should have the intellect to have some understanding of the need for adequate and effective representation, its as if they genuinely believe that the overthrow of society and complete destruction of its values is the only reason that unions exist.

I would have hoped that Dopers would be intelligent enough to understand that anecdotes are not data, that one personal case does not represent the whole gamut of work that union reps undertake, or even that the reality is that industrial power tends to lie with the employer and the majority of the time the power holders get what they want.

Lets imagine a world without worker representation then, what would it look like?

Do you think that employers would universally offer their staff fair terms and conditions?

How do you imagine workers got anything at all - the clue is to look at early industrial relations - you might also look at safety laws - who do you think is one of the major contributors to the consultation process?

If you imagine that employers are happy to spend lots of money keeping their workforce alive and well - well good luck to you, your world must be extremely gentle and fluffy, because I have dealt large numbers of assaults on workers by members of the public and offenders, I know many workers who have suffered ill effects from asbestos, from coal dust - and guess what - they still would be no protection from such hazards were it not for unions.(I live in a mining town)

Unions act as a counter to power, if you want to live in a world where your fate is controlled only by the whims of managers then feel free to move to China - or to the many other nations that do not give a damn about their workforce - you have plenty to choose from, I invite you to live in a managers paradise, I'm pretty sure it will soon become as unattractive as the polar opposite which is the workers paradise of Russia.

Its about balance, its about ensuring truth is spoken to power, its about democracy, its about those at the bottom having some sort of leverage in a world where they would otherwise be powerless.


Clearly you have not observed the working conditions of staff in countries such as Bangladesh, or the powerless workers in the US who happen to have no advocates because they are illegal migrants.

Yes I have seen incompetent and lazy individuals hang on to their jobs equally I see lots of corrupt and greedy Ex Os who dodge their tax and get the current administration to 'reduce their burden' I see executive pay going up and up for no additional value to the shareholder, I see plenty of corruption, incompetence and greed at the top - but somehow its the ones at the bottom who tend to find themselves facing disciplinary proceedings, whilst the executives at the top seem to get away Scott free.

That's the way things are, it will not change in a hurry if at all, unions are simply a reaction to the powerful - who tend to abuse that power - if you want to rid yourself of dealing with unions, maybe it would be a good idea to remove the reasons that workers feel they need to organise and collectively protect themselves from the powerful - most of us just want a quiet life to live in our own little worlds with a modicum of dignity, its just that the wealthy don't seem to want that to happen.
  #45  
Old 01-12-2018, 11:27 AM
Darren Garrison Darren Garrison is offline
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Originally Posted by casdave View Post
Lets imagine a world without worker representation then, what would it look like?
I already live there. I'm good with it.
  #46  
Old 01-12-2018, 11:40 AM
manson1972 manson1972 is offline
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Originally Posted by casdave View Post
Unions act as a counter to power, if you want to live in a world where your fate is controlled only by the whims of managers then feel free to move to China -
I don't disagree with everything you are stating, but there are millions of people, myself included, that don't belong to a union, and I guess are "controlled only by the whims of managers" right here in the US of A.
  #47  
Old 01-12-2018, 11:43 AM
Loach Loach is offline
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Originally Posted by steronz View Post
Fucked up removal and arrest aside, is a superintendent making $140k that unreasonable? And would the extra $30k a year they're paying for that job make any noticeable difference if spread evenly among all the faculty and staff?
It’s Louisiana, a state notorious for giving low salaries to government employees. For instance for a long while as a regular patrol officer I was making considerably more than the chief of the New Orleans Police Department. Recently it seems to be getting better. $140,000 is still a very good salary for the area.
  #48  
Old 01-12-2018, 11:50 AM
Grrr! Grrr! is offline
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Update: Officer involved has a history of using excessive force.
  #49  
Old 01-12-2018, 11:53 AM
Czarcasm Czarcasm is online now
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Originally Posted by Grrr! View Post
Wrong link.
  #50  
Old 01-12-2018, 12:04 PM
Grrr! Grrr! is offline
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Originally Posted by Czarcasm View Post
Wrong link.

Sorry about that: Officer involved has a history of using excessive force.

Last edited by Grrr!; 01-12-2018 at 12:05 PM.
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