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Old 01-16-2019, 05:02 PM
Acsenray Acsenray is offline
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Did Pelosi just un-invite Trump from the State of the Union?

The U.S. Constitution says that the president shall from time to time report to Congress on the State of the Union. It doesn't say that the president has to give a speech. It doesn't say a State of the Union speech has to be in the House of Representatives.

The modern ritual of an annual State of the Union address in the well of the House of Representatives dates back only to Woodrow Wilson.

For this to happen, the House has to invite the president to come and speak. Without such an invitation, the president may not set foot in the House. Usually this invitation happens a few days before the scheduled address.

Nancy Pelosi just sent a letter to Trump saying they need to talk about rescheduling this event while the government is shut down. Or maybe, he can just submit a report in writing (which Thomas Jefferson and many other pre-20th century presidents did).

https://www.speaker.gov/wp-content/u...Trump-SOTU.pdf
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Old 01-16-2019, 05:06 PM
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It really is just an opportunity to get your message out, talk about the things you want to talk about. A great number of the conservative punditry approve of doing away with the tradition.
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Old 01-16-2019, 05:06 PM
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I suspect this really burns Trump. Maybe it would even motivate him to end the shutdown, just so he could get his pomp-and-ceremony in.

Rep. Steve Scalise (Louisiana) says Trump could give his address somewhere else -- https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...hutdown-update

The National Review prints a rare statement that I agree with 100 percent. The president is not a king and he's not the embodiment of the nation -- https://www.nationalreview.com/corne...union-pageant/

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The hideous State of the Union pageant would not be much missed, and the American people would be reminded in a dramatic fashion that the president is the chief administrator of the federal bureaucracy, not a ruler, not an ersatz king, and not the personification of the nation.
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Old 01-16-2019, 05:07 PM
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I like the hardball. Can you imagine the nonsense, shitty grammar, and random ALL CAPS we'd get if he has to write it out? Of course, in that case the speech would be ghostwritten like Trump's book was.
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Old 01-16-2019, 05:12 PM
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If there's one thing that we've learned from the McConnell/Trump era, it's that "unwritten rules" aren't really rules at all. I'm glad to see that the Democrats have learned this lesson and are willing to weaponize it against the Republicans.
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Old 01-16-2019, 05:16 PM
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OK, this, right here, is how you do it: Perfectly reasoned and polite, with full decorum, and yet leaving scorch marks where Trump's balls used to be.

And to think that people wonder why we keep Pelosi as Speaker.
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Old 01-16-2019, 05:19 PM
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Speaker Pelosi hasn't actually canceled the State of the Union; she just won't invite President Trump to give it in person before Congress. He can still send a written address which will be read out by a clerk like every President between John Adams and Woodrow Wilson did. IIRC the last President to submit a written address was Jimmy Carter.

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Old 01-16-2019, 05:24 PM
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Wonder if Trump would try to tweet the SOTU?
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Old 01-16-2019, 05:26 PM
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I like the hardball. Can you imagine the nonsense, shitty grammar, and random ALL CAPS we'd get if he has to write it out? Of course, in that case the speech would be ghostwritten like Trump's book was.
I know! The image of Trump having to do homework cracks me up--sitting with a giant Sharpie and canary yellow notepad, sticking his tongue out of the side of his mouth as he tries to write a book report.

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Speaker Pelosi hasn't actually canceled the State of the Union; she just won't invite President Trump to give it in person before Congress. He can still send a written address which will be read out by a clerk like every President between John Adams and Woodrow Wilson did. IIRC the last President to submit a written address was Jimmy Carter.

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Hey, alphaboi, did you actually read the OP on your SM-G65U using Tapatalk before you posted?

Last edited by Acsenray; 01-16-2019 at 05:26 PM.
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Old 01-16-2019, 05:28 PM
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Wonder if Trump would try to tweet the SOTU?
That occurred to me too!
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Old 01-16-2019, 05:58 PM
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While tweeting it would be hilarious, he'll probably just choose some other venue for the speech. The real question is whether the new site will be chosen to maximize insult to the Dems or maximize rallying cry to his base.

Last edited by CarnalK; 01-16-2019 at 05:59 PM.
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Old 01-16-2019, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by alphaboi867 View Post
Speaker Pelosi hasn't actually canceled the State of the Union; she just won't invite President Trump to give it in person before Congress. He can still send a written address which will be read out by a clerk like every President between John Adams and Woodrow Wilson did. IIRC the last President to submit a written address was Jimmy Carter.

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Since Speaker of the House is trying to re-schedule the State of the Union address, it's safe to assume that the invitation has already been sent, and accepted. Pelosi is trying to claim it's now a security issue, but the Secret Service says they weren't even questioned about the SotU security. It sounds as if Pelosi is more concerned about her own personal security than providing border security for voters in the U.S..

Pelosi is in a position to withdraw the House's invitation. Of course, that would make Pelosi even more petty than she is, but that's her choice. The President is not required to use the floor of the House to present a SotU address. Pelosi's gambit will guarantee even more public interest for this SotU address if only to discover what Pelosi is so afraid of hearing.

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Old 01-16-2019, 06:04 PM
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There seems to be some confusion. One of Pelosi's spokespersons said today it wasn't a formal rescinding of he invitation, just a proposal. Then House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer said on CNN that the "SOTU is off." Who knows.

Assuming the invite really is rescinded, I predict Trump will quickly organize a campaign rally-type event in some border town in Texas and deliver his speech there, where he can get all the applause he craves and no visuals of Democratic reps standing stoically.
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Old 01-16-2019, 06:08 PM
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It would be awesome if Trump ends up giving a speech from the Oval office. Because Pelosi has said "He can do it from the Oval office." See, she told him to. I hope he does. That's gonna fuck with him!
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Old 01-16-2019, 06:09 PM
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Since Speaker of the House is trying to re-schedule the State of the Union address, it's safe to assume that the invitation has already been sent, and accepted.
Uh, no. It's not safe to assume. The sending of an invitation requires official action by both the Senate and the House. No such action as been taken, so there has been no invitation.

The speaker and the president's staff usually informally prepare for the invitation to be sent well in advance, and that's all that has happened. They had agreed informally on a particular date, as has been done in the past. Her letter asks him to reconsider that date.
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Old 01-16-2019, 06:15 PM
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Uh, no. It's not safe to assume. The sending of an invitation requires official action by both the Senate and the House. No such action as been taken, so there has been no invitation.

The speaker and the president's staff usually informally prepare for the invitation to be sent well in advance, and that's all that has happened. They had agreed informally on a particular date, as has been done in the past. Her letter asks him to reconsider that date.
On January 3, Pelosi sent him a letter formally inviting him to give the SOTU on the 29th. That's as official as it gets. I don't believe the Senate has to take any action.
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Old 01-16-2019, 06:21 PM
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Uh, no. It's not safe to assume. The sending of an invitation requires official action by both the Senate and the House. No such action as been taken, so there has been no invitation.

The speaker and the president's staff usually informally prepare for the invitation to be sent well in advance, and that's all that has happened. They had agreed informally on a particular date, as has been done in the past. Her letter asks him to reconsider that date.
What action is required by the Senate when the House issues an invitation to the President? Is Pelosi asking the President to reschedule, or reconsider, the date?
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Old 01-16-2019, 06:22 PM
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This would be the first time the President has been the Designated Survivor.
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Old 01-16-2019, 06:31 PM
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Pelosi sent him an invitation, but it doesn't mean much.

In order for the President to give the SOTU, both the House and the Senate pass a resolution authorizing a joint session of Congress. Neither chamber has done that, so there will be no joint session, so there will be no address.
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Old 01-16-2019, 06:31 PM
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It’s partially my fault because I did use the term “un-invite” myself.

But there are two levels of invitation that have to happen. And the official-official one hasn’t happened.

https://www.ajc.com/news/national/st...mVTpd9PDsiO7H/

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Because the speech involves a joint session, both the House and the Senate must pass resolutions to OK the joint session.

The passing of the resolutions, in essence, constitutes an invitation from both the speaker of the House and the Senate majority leader for the president to appear before both chambers of Congress.

So far, neither the House nor the Senate has passed such a resolution that invites the president to give the State of the Union address on Jan. 29.
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Old 01-16-2019, 06:35 PM
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. . . . Pelosi is trying to claim it's now a security issue, but the Secret Service says they weren't even questioned about the SotU security. It sounds as if Pelosi is more concerned about her own personal security than providing border security for voters in the U.S.. . . .
She's not concerned about security. This is political theater highlighting the shutdown and the fact that the folks working security will be doing it without timely pay. There's no reason she needs to discus anything. What would the Secret Service say that would change the fact that they aren't getting paid?

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. . . . if only to discover what Pelosi is so afraid of hearing. . . .
Oh, please. "Afraid of hearing" sort of implies that he's going to pull out secret indictments or new irrefutable facts or something. He doesn't have indictments and doesn't do facts. It's going to be a Trump speech.
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Old 01-16-2019, 06:37 PM
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Well done, Madame Speaker.
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Old 01-16-2019, 06:38 PM
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It's a smart move by Pelosi because it impacts something Trump actually cares about: being able to beam out to the nation images of Democrats forced to sit and listen to him.

He won't be able to duplicate that particular show of power if he holds a rally in Texas to give the SOTU address.

So Pelosi has given him what may be his first real personal incentive to end the shutdown.
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Old 01-16-2019, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by doorhinge View Post
Since Speaker of the House is trying to re-schedule the State of the Union address, it's safe to assume that the invitation has already been sent, and accepted. Pelosi is trying to claim it's now a security issue, but the Secret Service says they weren't even questioned about the SotU security. It sounds as if Pelosi is more concerned about her own personal security than providing border security for voters in the U.S..

Pelosi is in a position to withdraw the House's invitation. Of course, that would make Pelosi even more petty than she is, but that's her choice. The President is not required to use the floor of the House to present a SotU address. Pelosi's gambit will guarantee even more public interest for this SotU address if only to discover what Pelosi is so afraid of hearing.

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Old 01-16-2019, 06:48 PM
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... Pelosi's gambit will guarantee even more public interest for this SotU address if only to discover what Pelosi is so afraid of hearing.
...
He's going to beg for his wall. She's not afraid of hearing that, but tired of it.
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Old 01-16-2019, 06:57 PM
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Of course, that would make Pelosi even more petty than she is, but that's her choice.
What she is doing is holding the president accountable, which is Congress’s job but something the Racist Party has become unaccustomed to.
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Old 01-16-2019, 07:09 PM
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Is Pelosi being unnecessarily aggressive, at least in the minds of Trump supporters (including those in Government) who might become especially loyal to Trump as a result?
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Old 01-16-2019, 07:11 PM
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It made me smile. Trump feels a small portion of the pain he's inflicting, unless he starts to take negotiations seriously. He loses his media coverage and the hoopla of the joint session. I think it's a masterful move.
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Old 01-16-2019, 07:12 PM
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Is Pelosi being unnecessarily aggressive, at least in the minds of Trump supporters (including those in Government) who might become especially loyal to Trump as a result?
It’s time to stop caring about whether appeasement will persuade Trump supporters to stop being slightly less evil.
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Old 01-16-2019, 07:17 PM
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It's a smart move by Pelosi because it impacts something Trump actually cares about: being able to beam out to the nation images of Democrats forced to sit and listen to him.
I would have thought it more base than that ... what the tradition that members of both Houses stand and applaud POTUS as they enter the chamber ... replete with a tweet claim that there were more members in the joint sitting and applauding him than ever before ... must have been over a thousand.
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Old 01-16-2019, 07:24 PM
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Since Speaker of the House is trying to re-schedule the State of the Union address, it's safe to assume that the invitation has already been sent, and accepted. Pelosi is trying to claim it's now a security issue, but the Secret Service says they weren't even questioned about the SotU security. It sounds as if Pelosi is more concerned about her own personal security than providing border security for voters in the U.S..
It's safe to assume that you are laughably wrong about everything you have posted above, and are merely making it up as you go.

Just keep on being you.
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Old 01-16-2019, 07:26 PM
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I would have thought it more base than that ... what the tradition that members of both Houses stand and applaud POTUS as they enter the chamber ... replete with a tweet claim that there were more members in the joint sitting and applauding him than ever before ... must have been over a thousand.
"The thousands and thousands of members of Congress gave me the biggest Standing O in history!!! And then we all had hamberders! That I paid for! I got to have the most of them!!!!!"
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Old 01-16-2019, 07:43 PM
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Pelosi's an idiot. All Trump needs to do is give his speech on TV from the White House, maybe even the Oval Office, then hand a document to the House. Fox will televise him and if no one else does they'll get huge ratings. He could even pre-record it so Fox can have their bletherers properly primed. He might even reference the camera operator by name during the speech and then at the end ask the camera operator to deliver a copy of the video to the House - it doesn't have to be on paper, does it?

Anyway, Jan 29th is 2 years +8 days, isn't it? So I wonder if it will be Pence giving the address?
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Old 01-16-2019, 07:48 PM
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No, she’s being really smart about this. There’s no downside. The upside is that the polo and circumstance of being president is one of the few things that Trump cares about.

Trump will always take every opportunity to be an asshole in public. So it doesn’t hurt Pelosi if he does it at an alternative location. He’s going to do what he would have done in the well of the House. But this time the House doesn’t have to be a part of the travesty.
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Old 01-16-2019, 07:51 PM
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Pelosi's an idiot. All Trump needs to do is give his speech on TV from the White House, maybe even the Oval Office, then hand a document to the House. Fox will televise him and if no one else does they'll get huge ratings. He could even pre-record it so Fox can have their bletherers properly primed. He might even reference the camera operator by name during the speech and then at the end ask the camera operator to deliver a copy of the video to the House - it doesn't have to be on paper, does it?

Anyway, Jan 29th is 2 years +8 days, isn't it? So I wonder if it will be Pence giving the address?
He won't have cheering crowds hordes of drooling idiots or sychophantic Congresscritters stroking his ego. He can't brag about the (vastly inflated) numbers of viewers.
He lives for that shit.
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Old 01-16-2019, 08:07 PM
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It’s time to stop caring about whether appeasement will persuade Trump supporters to stop being slightly less evil.
Assuming there is a near-fixed and devoted Trump base of around 40 percent, and that Republican gerrymandering has been effective, the Democrats are in a precarious position. They need essentially complete support from the non-Trumpites.

Anything they can do to woo even some of his base could have huge effect at the electoral level.

The Democrats already have all the Trump haters in their pocket. The only way they are sure to succeed from here is to convert some of the pro-Trump camp to their side.

Last edited by KarlGauss; 01-16-2019 at 08:09 PM.
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Old 01-16-2019, 08:30 PM
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I like it but I'm sure Trump is just going to hold some alternate candlelight event festooned with Big Macs, former porn stars, and big brass from the newly formed Space Force.

Actually I would probably go to that. It's not my job to have dignity.
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Old 01-16-2019, 08:33 PM
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Pelosi's an idiot. All Trump needs to do is give his speech on TV from the White House, maybe even the Oval Office, then hand a document to the House. Fox will televise him and if no one else does they'll get huge ratings. He could even pre-record it so Fox can have their bletherers properly primed. He might even reference the camera operator by name during the speech and then at the end ask the camera operator to deliver a copy of the video to the House - it doesn't have to be on paper, does it?
Look, I know you're a hard scrapping internet warrior but do you really think you have any place to call a scrapper like Pelosi an idiot? Do you honestly think she isn't well aware of these points you make? She may be wrong in her calculus but she has undoubtedly realized that Trump may do the thngs you mention.
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Old 01-16-2019, 08:43 PM
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Nancy Pelosi is showing us how it's done.
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Old 01-16-2019, 08:48 PM
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I would have thought it more base than that ... what the tradition that members of both Houses stand and applaud POTUS as they enter the chamber ... replete with a tweet claim that there were more members in the joint sitting and applauding him than ever before ... must have been over a thousand.
Oh, absolutely.

And don't forget the "invited guests" aspect of SoTU addresses at the House. No doubt he was excitedly planning on having people who, he hoped, would cause pain to show up on the faces of Pelosi, Schumer, and other prominent Democrats.

Now those faces won't be there to react to his Brilliant Choices.

Poor Donnie. The treat has been well and truly snatched away from him.

Last edited by Sherrerd; 01-16-2019 at 08:49 PM.
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Old 01-16-2019, 08:50 PM
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Pelosi's an idiot. All Trump needs to do is give his speech on TV from the White House, maybe even the Oval Office, then hand a document to the House. Fox will televise him and if no one else does they'll get huge ratings. He could even pre-record it so Fox can have their bletherers properly primed. He might even reference the camera operator by name during the speech and then at the end ask the camera operator to deliver a copy of the video to the House - it doesn't have to be on paper, does it?

Anyway, Jan 29th is 2 years +8 days, isn't it? So I wonder if it will be Pence giving the address?
Nah, I don't think so.

Trump has painted himself into a corner with a shutdown that he owns, and a shutdown that is highly unpopular, even among some part of his base. Moreover, Pelosi is the Speaker of the House, and as such, she can continue to propose and author bills to reopen the government. Again, and again, and again. And it goes to Mitch McConnell's senate, where it gets blocked again, and again. Why? Because McConnell won't send a bill to the president knowing that it will get vetoed and then overridden. McConnell knows that if the president is overridden, it's possibly the kiss of death.

Pelosi has the advantage of knowing why this whole shutdown started in the first place -- because Trump reacted to Laura Ingraham, Rush Limbaugh, and Ann Coulter, a bunch of unaccountable right wing shock jocks. Pelosi knows that Trump is trapped between his base and mounting public opinion. She's going to shock his testicles again and again. There's a reason she's Speaker, dude.
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Old 01-16-2019, 08:52 PM
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Assuming there is a near-fixed and devoted Trump base of around 40 percent, and that Republican gerrymandering has been effective, the Democrats are in a precarious position. They need essentially complete support from the non-Trumpites.

Anything they can do to woo even some of his base could have huge effect at the electoral level.

The Democrats already have all the Trump haters in their pocket. The only way they are sure to succeed from here is to convert some of the pro-Trump camp to their side.
No. The number of voting-eligible Americans who didn't vote in 2016 dwarfs the number who voted for Trump.

Those are the votes to go after.

The Trump-fans are unreachable. It doesn't matter what concessions might be made to them or what flattery might be offered them or what deference might be shown to them. They are unreachable by Democrats.

(my bolding)
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Old 01-16-2019, 08:56 PM
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Trump rode into office after being completely played by Russia. Then he had 2 years of not facing pushback at all. I hope this is the beginning of 2 years of Trump being played like a fiddle by American politicians a thousand times as experienced as him. And smarter, too.
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Old 01-16-2019, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by KarlGauss:

Assuming there is a near-fixed and devoted Trump base of around 40 percent, and that Republican gerrymandering has been effective, the Democrats are in a precarious position. They need essentially complete support from the non-Trumpites.

Anything they can do to woo even some of his base could have huge effect at the electoral level.

The Democrats already have all the Trump haters in their pocket. The only way they are sure to succeed from here is to convert some of the pro-Trump camp to their side.
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No. The number of voting-eligible Americans who didn't vote in 2016 dwarfs the number who voted for Trump.

Those are the votes to go after.

The Trump-fans are unreachable. It doesn't matter what concessions might be made to them or what flattery might be offered them or what deference might be shown to them. They are unreachable by Democrats.

(my bolding)
The key word in my post was 'sure', as in 'sure to succeed'. It seems those who didn't vote for Trump in 2016 were insufficient in number and/or electoral district to stop him. Another source of votes is required (to be 'sure').
  #45  
Old 01-16-2019, 09:09 PM
DSYoungEsq DSYoungEsq is offline
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Anyway, Jan 29th is 2 years +8 days, isn't it? So I wonder if it will be Pence giving the address?
Did you mistake Jan. 29th for Feb. 29th?
  #46  
Old 01-16-2019, 09:10 PM
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beowulff beowulff is offline
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Since Speaker of the House is trying to re-schedule the State of the Union address, it's safe to assume that the invitation has already been sent, and accepted. Pelosi is trying to claim it's now a security issue, but the Secret Service says they weren't even questioned about the SotU security. It sounds as if Pelosi is more concerned about her own personal security than providing border security for voters in the U.S..

Pelosi is in a position to withdraw the House's invitation. Of course, that would make Pelosi even more petty than she is, but that's her choice. The President is not required to use the floor of the House to present a SotU address. Pelosi's gambit will guarantee even more public interest for this SotU address if only to discover what Pelosi is so afraid of hearing.

Sent from my Apple IIe using Fingerpokin
Impressive. Every word in that post was wrong.
  #47  
Old 01-16-2019, 09:12 PM
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I'd just like us to take a moment and remember that Pelosi has been re-Speaker-ed for less than two weeks.

What nightmares await Trump for the remainder of their terms that coincide?

Go, Nancy, go!
  #48  
Old 01-16-2019, 09:51 PM
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Nancy Pelosi is dominating Trump. It's a political wrestling match, and she's got his shoulders pinned.
  #49  
Old 01-16-2019, 10:01 PM
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Pelosi's an idiot. All Trump needs to do is give his speech on TV from the White House, maybe even the Oval Office, then hand a document to the House. Fox will televise him and if no one else does they'll get huge ratings. He could even pre-record it so Fox can have their bletherers properly primed. He might even reference the camera operator by name during the speech and then at the end ask the camera operator to deliver a copy of the video to the House - it doesn't have to be on paper, does it?

Anyway, Jan 29th is 2 years +8 days, isn't it? So I wonder if it will be Pence giving the address?
Pence and Donnie might each be giving the State of the Cellblock address at their respective institutions.
  #50  
Old 01-16-2019, 10:10 PM
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I'd just like us to take a moment and remember that Pelosi has been re-Speaker-ed for less than two weeks.

What nightmares await Trump for the remainder of their terms that coincide?

Go, Nancy, go!
Isn't that something? Within 3 days of Dems assuming their responsibilities in the House, Republicans were already trying to smear them with being obstructionist over the border wall -- completely ignoring the whole 2 years they controlled the House before that. There are just no words for the depth of the corruption of Republicans.

Brava, Nancy Pelosi!!!
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