Relationship between "Hoboken" and "Hobo"?

[WordMan]

Hello,

A word colleague of mine lives in this fabled NJ city and has a question - she knows that the city name is based on a Native American word, but did the city name lead to the naming of "hoboes"? She has heard that it did because Hoboken was a clearinghouse city and saw a lot of people down on their luck looking for opportunity.

Thanks in advance for your help.

[WordMan]

uh...that's "work" colleague....must preview, must...preview

[Arnold Winkelried]

Merriam-Webster's Collegiate dictionary says "etymology unknown." Who around here has an OED?

[cleops]

I always surmised the work "hobo" was a corruption from the French "hobereaux" which meant a former nobleman down on his financial luck or who had done something unaristocratic--like getting his hands dirty actually trying to make money--to lose his noble status. But, just a surmise.

[capybara]

Uh, I am under the impression that the New York town is named after a town in the Netherlands, as are Nieuw Amsterdam (New York), Haarlem, Schenectady, and Beverswyck (Albany).

[cleops]

word

[capybara]

Uh, I am under the impression that the New Jersey town is named after a town in the Netherlands, as are other places in the area like Nieuw Amsterdam (New York), Haarlem, Schenectady, Breucklen (Brooklyn), Bronx, and Beverswyck (now Albany).

[capybara]

My bad on that semi-double post. And apparently the old Hoboken is now in Belgium. . .

[Chez Guevara]

According to Cassell's Dictionary Of Slang, the etymology of hobo is unknown.

Claims have been made for hoe-boy, a migrant farm worker, and the cry Ho, boy! used regularly by northwestern railway mail handlers c. 1880-90.

There is no mention of Hoboken in the definition.

[Captain Amazing]

Originally posted by capybara
as are other places in the area like Nieuw Amsterdam (New York), Haarlem, Schenectady, Breucklen (Brooklyn), Bronx, and Beverswyck (now Albany).

Actually, Beverswyck isn't a town in the Netherlands. It means "beaver district", because there was a trading post for beaver pelts there.

[rowrrbazzle]

Here's the full text of the OED's information about the origins of this word:

orig. Western U.S.

First cite:

1889 Ellensburgh (Wash.) Capital 28 Nov. 2/2 The tramp has changed his name, or rather had it changed for him, and now he is a ‘Hobo’.

[kanicbird]

just a wag here - since hobo's usually travel via feight trains and hoboken is basically a big rail yard - maybe the bums from NYC who wanted a change of carear got across the river and hopped a freight.

[arara123]

I saw Patti Smith in concert at a street fair/summer festival in Hoboken a couple of years ago.

FWIW, she mentioned the Hoboken/hobo tie-in.

[Neologian]

My understanding was that "hobo" was an abbreviation for "home bound" as when the men riding the rails or camping on riverbanks were challenged by local authorities what they were doing, they would plead that they were "homebound."

[RealityChuck]

Since the OED indicates the origin is from the western US and Hoboken is in the east, it seems unlikely there's an etymological connection.

[Rodney of Texas]

I can't find a link, but Garrison Keillor once explained that the gardening hoe was invented near the end of the civil war, and that destitute confederate veterans who could obtain one turned to wandering the countryside carrying their few belongings in a pack attached to the hoe. The cartoon image of a hobo with his pack on a 'stick' developed from this.

These "Hoe Boys" would go door to door and offer to weed gardens or fields in exchange for food, shelter or money.

[samclem]

Originally Posted by Neologian

My understanding was that "hobo" was an abbreviation for "home bound" as when the men riding the rails or camping on riverbanks were challenged by local authorities what they were doing, they would plead that they were "homebound."

Almost certainly false.

I realize this is a "zombie" thread, but might as well update it with the latest information.

The word sleuths still haven't discovered the etymology, at least not the smoking gun. But they have gotten a lot closer.

The earliest cite is now from 1885 and shows the most likely derivation--a cry uttered by the tramps themselves--

St. Paul daily globe. (Saint Paul, Minn.) 1884-1896
November 30, 1885, Page 8, col. 1, Image 9

The Hobo, the "Workers," the Crook and Tramp at home--Their Slang and Their
Habits
Something About Their Most Salient Characteristics--How They Act and Talk
....
THE "HOBO"
The genus tramp, i.e., the "bum" or "Hobo" is usually made up of a
conglomeration of human outcasts....
THIEVES' VOCABULARY
....An overcoat is a "Ben." Hobo is a call to attract attention, the same as
Hello in the average citizen's vernacular. It is pronounced with the
long sound of the vowel, o, in both syllables, and is sometimes uttered with the aspirate omitted, as "Obo," and is the shibboleth of the fraternity of bums and crooks. It is now commonly applied by them as a generic term to designate the order. Hence "Hobo," when used in a substantative sense, means tramp or crook, as the case may be. For instance, when one says "That man is a Hobo," he means tramp or crook..... [col. 2]...further particulars will be postponed until another issue of The Globe. Rhue Saga.

[samclem]

Originally Posted by Rodney of Texas

I can't find a link, but Garrison Keillor once explained that the gardening hoe was invented near the end of the civil war, and that destitute confederate veterans who could obtain one turned to wandering the countryside carrying their few belongings in a pack attached to the hoe. The cartoon image of a hobo with his pack on a 'stick' developed from this.

These "Hoe Boys" would go door to door and offer to weed gardens or fields in exchange for food, shelter or money.

Mr. Keillor tells a great story. Nothing to back it up.

[cmkeller]

The relationship is that one is the other's kin.

[Really Not All That Bright]

Originally Posted by Rodney of Texas

I can't find a link, but Garrison Keillor once explained that the gardening hoe was invented near the end of the civil war, and that destitute confederate veterans who could obtain one turned to wandering the countryside carrying their few belongings in a pack attached to the hoe. The cartoon image of a hobo with his pack on a 'stick' developed from this.

These "Hoe Boys" would go door to door and offer to weed gardens or fields in exchange for food, shelter or money.

Bindles predate the US Civil War (though the word does not). Dick Whittington is typically depicted carrying a bindle as he leaves London, and one such image I've seen dates to the 17th century.

[Cravasse]

This is a interesting discussion to say the least. I really don't know where the word originated, and from reading this thread, it appears that no one really does. However, there are a lot of very interesting theories, which evokes my curiosity.

[CalMeacham]

The Name "Hoboken" isn't a Dutch place name shifted to the New World. To cite the Wikipedia article:

The name "Hoboken", pronounced by some as HO-bo-ken /ˈhoʊboʊkən/, was decided upon by Colonel John Stevens when he purchased land, on a part of which the city still sits. The Lenape (later called Delaware Indian) referred to the area as the “land of the tobacco pipe”, most likely to refer to the soapstone collected there to carve tobacco pipes, and used a phrase that became “Hopoghan Hackingh”.[8] Like Weehawken, its neighbor to the north, Communipaw and Harsimus to the south, Hoboken had many variations in the folks-tongue. Hoebuck, old Dutch for high bluff and likely referring to Castle Point, was used during the colonial era and later spelled as Hobuck,[9] Hobock,[10] and Hoboocken.[11]

So it appears that "Hoboken" is from a Dutch word that was inspired by the Lenape place name for the then-island. That's not surprising -- there are other examples of mixed Indian/European place names. in NJ. Perth Amboy gets its "Perth" part from Scotland (lots of Scottish Quakers settled in central NJ), but "
ambo" is Lenape "Ambo" = "point", so "Perth Amboy" is a dual-language "Perth Point". South Amboy across the bay is thus "South Point".

[philippe_gh74]

Despite the wikipedia definition (see above).
It's strange that in Belgium nearest the Netherland border, there is a city named Hoboken since 1123 AD. See wikilink : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoboken,_Antwerp.

it's an idea worth pursuing.

[Floater]

Originally Posted by capybara

Uh, I am under the impression that the New Jersey town is named after a town in the Netherlands, as are other places in the area like Nieuw Amsterdam (New York), Haarlem, Schenectady, Breucklen (Brooklyn), Bronx, and Beverswyck (now Albany).

The Bronx is named after a Swedish zombie called Jonas Bronck.

[Polycarp]

Do hobo zombies shamble after you calling out "Traaaiiiiiins"??

[thelurkinghorror]

Double zombie! Oh my God!

[Peter Morris]

Originally Posted by Rodney of Texas

I can't find a link, but Garrison Keillor once explained that the gardening hoe was invented near the end of the civil war, and that destitute confederate veterans who could obtain one turned to wandering the countryside carrying their few belongings in a pack attached to the hoe. The cartoon image of a hobo with his pack on a 'stick' developed from this.

This, certainly, is incorrect. The image is several centuries old, and comes from the tarot card The Fool.

I've read that the earliest surviving images actually show a jester with an inflated bladder on the end of his stick. This gradually changed to a beggar with a bag, as artists copied earlier images incorrectly.

[Leo Bloom]

Originally Posted by arara123

I saw Patti Smith in concert at a street fair/summer festival in Hoboken a couple of years ago.

FWIW, she mentioned the Hoboken/hobo tie-in.

Now that's a cite.