I’ve seen that, too: “The Court will come to order and remain seated.”
I think the “all rise” and other rules are related to the requirement in the military to call a person of certain rank “sir,” not to mention having to stand in a certain formation in a certain way at certain times. Forcing compliance is a method of intimidation, and intimidation is thought to be a vital part of the process. The judge must not be considered an equal of anyone in the courtroom for the process to work as planned.
It grates me, too, and reminds me of “Power corrupts…”. It’s all too easy to abuse power when you have it.
Well, it seems like an absolute non-issue. I mean, yes, I guess, you can ponder why people rise when a judge enters, and whether it goes against the principle of equality or whatnot. But that’s the kind of idle thought that deserve a full 5 seconds before you begin to wonder if you’ll put more salt on your steak.
For the record, here, the clerck just announce “The Court!” when the judge(s) enter(s) and people rise without being told to do so. I don’t think anybody would say anything if you stayed on your seat.
I’ve heard it said that a judge in his courtroom and the captain of a Naval vessel are the closest thing to an absolute monarch that we have in the USA. If someone in authority says, “All Rise,” the smart thing to do is stand up unless you are physically unable to do so. Why irritate The Man in Charge?
This is a British thing. In American schools, it is almost unheard of.
But in any case, it not a relevant analogy to the OP’s courtroom.
Schoolchildren are expected to defer to adult teachers, to treat them as superiors and obey their instructions.
In a courtroom, all citizens are supposed to be equal.
I’ve never been to court, but I don’t think I’d object to a little ceremonial standing-up. It maintains a dignified atmosphere.
And it’s better than British judges wearing 17th century wigs.
Right - otherwise, the rule would be “stand for judges you respect, don’t stand for judges you don’t respect, half-stand for judges you grudgingly repect.”
Also right. Very likely the whole reason you’re (general you) in court in the first place is to ask the judge to do or to not do something for you. If the very first thing you do is intentionally flout courtroom ettiquette, the only thing you’re accomplishing is creating a negative impression of yourself.
I’ve been in a number of courts that do or do not make people rise. It doesn’t seem like that big of a deal to me either way.
When dealing with a judge, you’re dealing with a situation where the judge has the ability to either take away property or liberty. That sort of power, when mishandled, can obviously be used for extremely bad purposes. So, as long as the rising is for the institution of the court, respecting the power that they have (serving as a reminder to individuals on both sides of the bench), I have no problem with it.
Really, though, my opinion/ experience as to why the court makes people rise is that the huge majority of people before the court have some major issues with authority and/or deference to the judge’s interpretation of the law (hint: not their own).
In criminal cases, most defendants have no clue about the level of trouble they are in, or believe that they can sweet-talk their way out. They don’t understand the power that the judge has in terms of sentencing. Starting to install the idea of get your shit together/respect the court/law/judge is not a bad idea.
In civil cases, people are so invested in their case (especially pro se litigants) and have often spent an incredible amount of time assuring themselves they are correct, that they are already going to blame a decision not in their favor on the judge (and not on the remote possibility that they are wrong or misunderstood something).
In a civil case, the judge is looking at at least one, and maybe both, parties being extremely unhappy. So, the idea of hey… you have to respect me/my decision (the judge) is not a bad one either. If you want proof, just think of all the people you know involved in civil cases who’ve lost and who’ve gone on to say… you know, that judge was right. I understand where I went wrong. (hint: there are not a lot).
I don’t mind all rise but some judges do take advantage of their seemingly absolute power within the courtroom. On the other hand the judges I know personally or through my profession all seem pretty relaxed and have a sense of humor.
I’ll admit it: my anger at the way I witnessed a specific judge (the day I started this thread) was what set me off. The dude either had a hearing problem, or the acoustics of the (as always, fake-wood-veneered) courtroom were annoying him – so he repeatedly stopped the proceedings mid-sentence to chastise various members of the audience for talking. Nobody was talking; he just has a problem hearing. How do I know this? I’ve seen it from him before. The first time, I silently applauded him – it was one of those Loud Courtroom Days, and nobody seemed to understand the “shut the fuck up in court” rule. Uhh, kinda an unwritten one, but frequently a barked one Anyway, this time, it was him. He did the “Do you plead through your own free will? Have you been, in any way, subject – stop talking! – ed to duress, or otherwise…” (Guy: No. <Shakes head>. Judge: Sir, in court, you have to speak up!").
That, and the pockets thing. I’m gonna guess this isn’t unique to my state, so anyone who works in a courtroom knows what I mean – people, especially nervous people, tend to put their hands in their pockets while on the stand. Its understandable; you know you’re supposed to give the Judge your complete attention, so you focus on what he’s saying – and if you’re used to putting your hands in your pockets, you do it. Bad Judges the country over will use this as an excuse to embarass you. Here was that day’s example:
Defendent: Your Honor, what should I do at this point?
Judge: The first thing you can do is take your hands out of your pockets.
<nervous laughter from some, boisterous cameraderie from the staff>
Yeah, the first time I saw the pockets thing happen, it was funny. Then I noticed that it happens…consistently. And be it out of a desire to maintain decorum (sure – by cracking a joke with an acid undertone…) or to…uhh, something else, if you want old-school, no-hands-in-pockets values, post it on the effing door. Yes, I know it makes the rest of us feel good for knowing in advance that “proper” people – people with manners, darnit, they just know not to put hands in their pockets – but, ya know, perhaps the Judge could spare the poor bastard who’s terrified of him, and likely doing it through sheer nervousness, a public embarassment. How 'bout that?
Crap. I’m pushing it towards the Pit. Maybe that was my point all – HANDS OUTTA YOUR POCKETS THERE!
Judges can be assholes just like everyone else. The stop talking thing when nobody is talking is kinda funny, but in the long run grounds to ask the judge be removed because he is getting angry and his judgment affected by nothing at all.
As for the pockets, lots of people do it. It’s not professional, nor is wearing a raincoat, staying seated when it is a stand when you talk courtroom, etc. I expect lawyers to follow those rules. But lots of people cannot be represented by lawyers and must plead themselves. It is very bad form to embarrass people who are going through one of the most trying times of their lives. Most people hate speaking in public. Hate it, hate it, hate it. Humiliating them while they are doing it speaks volumes about the person doing the humiliating.
Haha, I almost spit out my beverage on that – yeah, I’m being narcissistic and re-reading this. However, I’ve got an excuse: yesterday, I got to observe Hizzoner again. I really wish I could film him, because he’s a fascinating character; since I’ve dumped on him above, I’ll mention the other side: this gentleman is by far the most competent, swift, and aware judge I’ve ever seen in action (ok, perhaps barring a few SC justices). Considering the jurisdiction, and the relatively minor cases he appears to deal with…he’s good. He’s also fast, which I appreciate, because I want to get the hell out of there like everyone else. I tend to judge people (no pun intended) pretty strongly by their speech patterns, and this dude can read through the “Do you understand that by pleading guilty…” spiel (is there a name for this little speech? You know, where they ask if anyone’s coerced you, or if you’re under the influence of alcohol, and verify that you understand what you’re doing, and give the sub-speech about how, if you’re not a US citizen, you may be subjected to deportation, and – see, aren’t you already telling me to hurry the hell up? ) – anyway, he can spit this out so fast, while still verifying the actual questions he’s asking (meaning, he’s absolutely verifying the specifics, and not simply reciting it by rote) that it gets the minor cases aside in a flash. (And again, most of these are people pleading guilty to things like fourth-degree larceny for shoplifting, or being caught driving with a suspended license, and other non-jailable-offenses). So, he’s very good at his job.
But. When we rose, today, one of the first things he stated to the courtroom was this:
“Please make sure that your cell-phones are turned off; if your cell-phone rings, it may be subject to confiscation, and you may find yourself having to answer to me, and I may find you in contempt of court.”
Quick as a flash, and he said it slicker than I rehashed it.
I’m sorry to dig up this thread, again, but: I dare him to find someone in Contempt for having a cell-phone ring in his Court. I really do. I appreciate that he mentioned that folks should silence their phones – a phone ringing in court is certainly inappropriate, and people being people, they sometimes forget to silence it. So, yeah, I appreciate the reminder. What I didn’t appreciate was the pointless (and, I believe, empty) threat. Sure, any Judge (in the USA) is empowered to find someine In Contempt on the spot – but if he had jailed some poor bastard for accidentally allowing a cellphone to ring, I suspect he’d severely harm his career. Nobody likes a bully, and everyone likes taking down Authority Figures.
I’ve never seen anyone found In Contempt – anyone ever see it happen? I’ve seen people who I would have considered, lower-case, “in contempt”, meaning that they were openly showing disdain for the court, and/or disrupting its proceedings – but never seen anyone “found”. D’ya think a judge would ever truly do it for a cell-phone, and would they suffer any kind of backlash?
A quick google shows this judge was reversed on appeal when he did something similar: Court: Cell-Phone User Should Not Have Been Held in Contempt. Still, I’ll bet the ruling would have been different if she’d pulled it out, started talking, and told the judge “Just a minute! Cant you see I’m on the phone??” after he asked her to stop.
I had exactly the same thoughts, sitting there nervously with my homemade divorce paperwork packet on my lap. I wanted the divorce, my husband wanted the divorce, we worked it all out to our mutual satisfaction and who the hell was this Judge to…well…judge us?! Hoity-toity queen-ass wanna-be…all I need is a rubber freaking stamp a monkey could put on this paper and she comes in like Elizabeth the First…
…and you know what? It was all in my head. She was absolutely lovely (even though her bailiff did ask us to rise when she was entering). She had a sense of humor, she made small talk with me when she recognized my neighborhood from my address (“Oh, is that by that big park with the wheelchair softball? That’s a beautiful place…”) to put me at ease. Heck, she congratulated my ex and me on how well we’ve been handling our parenting roles and negotiating childsharing time to our daughter’s betterment. She actually joked with her staff that we should teach a class in how divorced parents should behave! (The two cases before us were worthy of the Jerry Springer show, with abuse and accusations and really awful things.)
So…given the choice between a great judge who likes a little pomp with her circumstance, and a shitty judge who lets people sit on their asses and tweet while he walks in, I’ll rise. No problem, yer honer.
And yes, I got my rubber stamp. And a renewed sense of faith in at least one courtroom.
Agree. It’s the same reason officers are saluted and get treated differently than enlisted (different mess, dress uniforms, sleeping arrangements). Their job requires that people in emotionally trying circumstances obey them immediately because if they don’t you could end up with (more of) a clusterfuck on your hands.
You personally don’t need to have the judge’s authority reinforced to act correctly in court but a significant number of people do. Think of how nasty family law can get.
Anyway, this time, it was him. He did the “Do you plead through your own free will? Have you been, in any way, subject – stop talking! – ed to duress, or otherwise…” (Guy: No. <Shakes head>. Judge: Sir, in court, you have to speak up!").
