Are we crazy to live in California?

Good Lorg, have you ever been to the rest of the country? I grew up in “America’s Heartland”: tornados, torrental thunderstorms, hail, ice storms, sinkholes, floods, subzero temperatures; go south or east and you get hurricanes. And don’t forget that many areas of the South and Midwest are adjacent to faults; the largest and most powerful fault in North America, the New Madrid fault, runs right through Illinois, Kentucky, and Missouri; the last time that baby let loose, the Mississippi river ran in reverse for three days, and according to the geophysics people she’s overdue for another tantrum, which may pretty well level St. Louis, and leave people in cities like Cincinatti and Kansas City picking glass off of the floor. 'Course, you can’t get insurance against earthquakes, so homeowners who haven’t reinforced their turn-of-the-century fixer uppers are holding their baby over the railing, but despite the size of the quake and extend of infrastructure damage from the Northridge quake the actual damage to dwellings and commercial space was surprisingly little. I’ve ridden a couple of baby quakes in the few years I’ve lived here and haven’t had a problem, though the Big’Un will probably be a scare.

I have to agree with Zsofia; the real reason we’re crazy to live in California is the real estate market. But then, I’d say the same about Chicago and New York. On the other hand, when I want french toast at 3am, all I have to do is hop on the 110 and go downtown or to Los Feliz. Try that trick in Omaha.

Stranger

In the rest of the country you have: tornado season, hurricane season, flood season, ice storm season, and blizzard season.

No such thing as earthquake season. We’ve got fire season, but it’s pretty easy to contain where I am. I’d worry about landslides if I weren’t in the flatlands.

I think I’ll stay put, thanks. And I live by the Garlock/San Andreas convergence.

As a SoCal native, when I moved to St. Louis I read up on the New Madrid & made the appropriate preparations. When I got to looking at insurance, the only cover on offer was a 40% increment over the basic no-earthquake coverage, with a deductible of 10% of structure value. And this was for new construction on relatively stable soil many miles from the river banks.

So yes, you can get earthquake insurance in the Midwest. But at that cost, damn near nobody does.

Witness the problems with hurricanes & un-insured folks, if I was King I’d mandate that insurance co’s could only sell all-hazards no-exceptions coverage. And everybody gets to buy it. Period. Nationwide.

Between premiums and taxes we already insure the whole country for all hazards; I’d just like to cut out the vagaries of federal disaster relief & the moral hazard of folks going uninsured and expecting the Feds to cover them in a pinch.

I considered jobs in California, but ultimately decided against it. Partly it was the distance from family (They’re almost all East Coasters, and even those living elsewhere don’t live on the West Coast), but partly it was the situation in California. The other reasons are complex, and inter-related
1.) Earthquakes are part of it, but not all of it. Certainly the possibility of a large quake hitting anywhere along the California coast is daunting. I lived in Utah for a few years, and experienced quakes there.

2.) The biggest problem in southern California is Too Many People, on land that wouldn’t normally support anything like that population. Thisd makes housing costs outrageously high and a lot of competition for everything I couldn’t believe the housing prices in santa Barbara – if I’d taken a job there, i’d have to commute an incredible distance every day, or else luck out to get a nearby home. It also makes potential disasters worse – if that Big Quake hits, all those displaced, injured, and killed people are going to strain rescue and relief systems much more than in a less densely populated area.

3.) The interrelated cycle of earthquake/seismic breakup - flash fires – rainfall – mudslides in the LA basin described by John McPhee in his book Control of Nature. It’s not by chance that these things happen. The cycle has been known to those in charge for quite a while – witness the vast constructions of drainage ditches and catch basins – but aen’t well known to the general populace. And human effects – especially preventing periodic burning of built-up vegetation, yet not clearing it out, either – makes things worse (fewer but much bigger fires, both directly threatening housing and denuding large stretches of hillside of soil-holoding plants, making it ripe for mudslides)

4.) Water. The LA area has been piping in huge quantities of water to support people, industry, and agriculture. This not only blighted the surrounding areas that lost out, but makes the city more vulnerable to a disruption of water. and LA is surrounded by desert. Even San Francisco , far to the north, and not exactly desert, has serious water-supply problems.

granted, Massachusetts is grotesquely expensive to live in, too (But I was able to get a house here). Anywhere interesting will be crowded and will have competition for desirable elements. But the density isn’t as high here and street parking – still more cutthroat than in most of the rest of the country – is still easier than the areas of LA I’ve visited.

Massachusetts has its share of natural disasters – hurricanes can hit here, and even tornados, but rarely. Nor’easters and killer snow storms are more common. There was a major earthquake here two centuries ago, but we’re far from a Plate Boundary, so they’re not common. None of the shattered rock/fire/mudslide cycle here. And we’re not so hemmed in by inhospitable country with relatively few roads.

My oversimplified picture of most California areas is that of isolated bowls with relatively few methods in ingress or egress, with several Damoclean swords hanging over them. I picture where 'm at as more accessible with fewer and smaller swords.

Sadly, I’m old enough to remember when it was cheap to live in the SF Bay Area. When I was born in the 1950’s there were 40,000 people in San Jose. Now there are well over 1,000,000 living in San Jose and the surrounding areas. I never had a problem finding a good paying job here, and until the dot com bust of 2000 the economy has always been relatively healthy when compared to large midwest cities.

I bought my first house in 1980 and have been trading up ever since. I was lucky to get into real estate early and have been able to ride the wave of high prices for the past 25 years. Things are slowing way down now and average housing prices are stabilizing and in some cases even dropping a little. Still way more expensive that North Dakota.

My wife and I are thinking about relocating to Arizona, Oregon, Colorado or New Mexico in 9 years (when I retire). While finding someplace cheaper to live in a more rural area is the main attraction, getting away from California earthquakes is a nice plus.

Here’s an interesting map of Presidentially Declared Disaster Areas in the U.S. and Puerto Rico by county, for the years 1965 - 2003. Granted, that’s not even 40 years of data, but it is an interesting indication of risk.

There’s my simple answer. I’d rather die in a place I love than live in a place I hate. (Not to knock Chico specifically; I’m speaking generally.)

I love it! The entire state of North Dakota is a disaster area! :smiley:

Now we just need to correlate that map with population density…

What about the Appalachias?

No earthquakes, no tornodoes (they can’t form very well in mountains), no hurricanes. There have been a few floods but again, that’s technically down in the flood plains not in the mountains themselves, and a most of the serious fatal flooding in the appalachias has come from man-made dams breaking, so if you’re diligent you can build a home in an area not in the path of a dam’s waters should it break.

I dunno about that, Martin. According to this map depicting the Appalachian regions, the area correlates to a significant level of disasters on the previously linked map.

Looks to me as if Wyoming, Nevada and Utah are the safest.

Silenus - easy enough to do. I found this weird looking density map which one could overlay onto the disaster map.

I only wish.

Despite the malarky you hear, flood insurance is not affordable. I looked into this for a woman I know. She’s a senior citizen on a fixed income. Her house is worth around 70 or 80 K. She’s in a flood zone, insurance would be $2600 a year and that’s on top of her regular homeowner’s insurance. Naturally she didn’t get it.

You kept hearing after Katrina, why didn’t these people have flood insurance? I’ll tell you why. Because they couldn’t afford it.

And even if you do have it… friend of mine got flooded about eight years ago. House was innundated to a depth of several feet. They had flood insurance at that time. Know how much it paid them? $3000

Now the insurance companies in Mississippi who sold “hurricane riders” to the regular homeowners insurance policy – you know the one that does cover wind damage, but doesn’t cover damage from storm surge – are saying the “hurricane riders” don’t cover storm surge. Since the regular homeowners insurance already covered wind damage, just what the &*%$ did the “hurricane rider” cover?

Anybody on the west coast is crazy to be here, because of the cost of living, myself included. Never mind the san andreas or the ring of fire. These people out here are lunatics because of the obscene prices we pay for -every-last-fucking thing.

Oh, don’t think I don’t love it here. I do. I hope to live here for the rest of my life (unless anyone wants to offer me a year or two abroad). Sure, I miss a big library, but there’s always ILL. I can cook my own Indian food. And Chico, as far as I am concerned, is the best place to live in California except maybe SLO. I frequently befuddle my friends by trying to tell them just how much I love it here.

lalaith: Flood insurance is issued by the National Flood Insurance Program. This program came about after several destructive floods in the United States. Insurance companies decided to get out of the flood insurance business, so the government stepped in with the Stafford Act of 1968. From FEMA’s website:

The NFIP encourages homeowners to purchase flood insurance, assists in education and outreach to communities, and provides continuing education to local floodplain management officials.

If it weren’t for the NFIP, one couldn’t purchase flood insurance - it’s like LSL Guy said, what we really need is an “all-hazard” policy. But the insurance companies won’t write this type policy.

And, while I can sympathize with the people in your example, one has to face reality. If you need increased coverage - if your house is worth more than the insured value - increase your coverage. If you are at risk of flooding - purchase flood insurance. I hope you don’t think I’m being cold, but the argument of “I can’t afford it” is moot. Let’s say that something damages your car - some object on the road, and you don’t have car insurance to cover it. You have no basis for complaint. If you own something of value, you should insure it. If you can’t afford insurance, then every day is a gamble as to when you are going to lose it. Sad but true.

As to the affordability of the coverage - a lot of that depends upon what flood zone you are in, and how the elevation of your house compares with the Base Flood Elevation. When I had a home which required flood insurance, the cost was about $50 a month (this was a $75,000 home). For every foot that the lowest habitable floor is below the BFE, the costlier the premium.

I love California and the way I feel is exactly how Troy put it earlier.

To begin with, the assertion that “we know” the Big One is coming within 10 years is just plain silly. No one knows that. Hell, for YEARS people have been saying California is going to split in half and fall into the ocean ala that stupid TV movie “10.5”. Sure, it’s likely that the fault lines are building up some serious tension that will be expelled sometime, but we have no idea when that time will be. Perhaps tomorrow, maybe 10,000 years from now. In the mean time, I’m going to spend my time in what I consider to be the greatest state.

And it is my understanding that the best ground to have your house built on is moderately unconsolidated (I’m sure a Doper Geologist could come in and say whether this is true or not); the reasoning is that the ground will roll with the waves and not cause severe damage.

If there was a big, scary quake around these parts, where I live would be screwed. Long, long ago this used to be a swampy land of mosquitos and. . . well, swamps. Up in the mountains, the river was dammed so the land could be used. The dam (Lake Isabella) is already starting to show it’s age and there have been many debates lately about what will happen when a big quake hits. Flooding would be pretty likely

As someone who lives in the VA area and has some general idea about what goes on in Appalachia, most of those were just really bad rainstorms causing flash floods and really bad snowstorms. They weren’t anything close to the vast and disastrous flooding you get from a hurricane, or a hurricane itself, or a tornado, or an earthquake.

Back up just a lil’ bit, Martin. Most of my family’s lineage hearkens back to West Virginina, so I do know just a little bit about it.

Disaster is disaster, whether it happens to few or many. The only point I was making is that Appalachia does’t seem free from disaster declarations. Smite me, I’m an engineer, I’m looking at data points. :slight_smile:

I live (not virtually, or even practically, but exactly) on top of the Hayward fault. Soon after the Loma Prieta quake there was a 5.0 on the Hayward with an epicenter almost under me. I was napping on the couch and woke up on the way to the floor. It was the most fun I had had in a long time. Am I crazy to live here? Of course!! That’s the whole lure and mystique of California, isn’t it? We sure don’t live here for the affordable housing!

I just wish we had some more cool weather like the stuff I grew up with in Texas. I really miss going out to watch the heavy-duty thunderstorms we got. Until you’ve been near blinded by lightning forking down all around you while thunder assaults your ears like the drums of the gods you haven’t really lived! I used to go out and climb the cottonwood tree in our front yard every time there was a tornado watch in hopes of getting to see one. I only stopped after my wish was granted when I got to see a funnel cloud reach down and pick up the roof of a gas station and drop it into a church parking lot a half-mile down the road. Ah, fun times!

(Why, yes, I’m a thrill-ride junkie–why do you ask?)

I, too, live precisely upon the Hayward fault. Hey Rich Mann, maybe we’re neighbors! Go put yourselves on the map that’s floating around in a thread here somewhere! Sorry for no linky-link to the map thread, it’s way early.

During the big one experienced in recent past, my hub was part of the clean up crew around the freeway ramp that collapsed in Oakland. He said he saw vans that were actually only 2 feet tall. Horrors, I tell you. He worked around the clock, two days straight and received a commendation from the City of Oakland.

My pediatrician asks at every check-up if we have an “earthquake kit”. The first time he asked, we didn’t, but made a point of putting together a big box of survival stuff just in case. Also because we didn’t want to be considered Bad Parents.

Living in California also makes for easy Christmas gifts. The wife just got me a Black & Decker Storm Station, with recharger, radio, flashlight, etc. Tres cool. :smiley: