My great aunt served in the Army Medical Corps during WWII. They did have to wear uniforms at all times unless they got permission from their CO to wear civilian clothes. Also while males were allowed into (respectable) bars and liquor stores in uniform women weren’t. This lasted into at least the 60s. Men could even wear uniforms to brothels (at least in practice). In Hawaii the military government even imposed price controls on local brothels.
[anecdote]A little while ago I was at a black tie wedding where one of the other guests was an Air Force captain, a navigator who flew AC-130 gunships over Afganistan rotating every few months from the States to a base in a country that he could not disclose.
He was wearing the Air Force mess dress (if that’s the proper term) uniform, with a cropped “waiter” jacket with shoulder boards and miniature medals, wing collar formal shirt and bow tie – very squared away. He said that his squadron had regular “dining ins” where they wore this formal uniform.
Later in the evening, when everyone was hot from dancing, he took off his jacket and headed for the dance floor. On the back of his shirt was airbrushed a buxom blonde poured into a red dress in the style of WWII aircraft nose art – it was quite a surprise. Apparently all the the guys in his squadron had all gotten these on the back of their formal shirts. I strongly suspect that this was outside the uniform regulations, but there was nobody there to call him on it officially and we civilians got a laugh out of it.[/anecdote]
When did the Army stop calling them “Fatigues” and start calling whatever they call them now? And why?
The Army SPC should have been wearing her Class B Uniform. It would have been more appropriate. However, there is no Army Regulation prohibiting her from wearing that uniform at that specific event.
However, even though it is not forbidden by Army Regs, her commander can pass more restrictive regulations. If I recall, at Ft Bragg, I was not allowed to wear BDUs off-post anywhere in BDUs after 7pm unless it was the gas station on my way home from work or something. This was because of a Post Regulation created by the Commanding General.
Here at Benning, I dont know of any such regulation. Though it does look messy, IMO, to be wearing BDUs/ACUs in the evening. Especially at a movie theatre or something like that. Shopping I can kinda understand though.
http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=ACU
For whomever asked about the ACU.
I’m sure you’ve seen it on CNN a million times.
Probably when the BDU came out. Early 80s?
I’ve lived in military towns like Plattsburgh and Watertown and it’s very common to see people in military uniforms doing routine things like shopping at the mall, renting a video, or eating at McDonalds.
Like this: http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m49/damnyankee_2006/BermudaMarch1976.jpg
Yours truly w/ the love of my life, in better days. Sorry my eyes are closed. The official term is “Dinner dress”, but mess dress is the popular term.
Uniforms and the regs. prescibing their wear change over time. My experience relates to the Navy and Marine Corps. Roughly, prior to the VN war, lower ranking enlisted were not permitted to leave their ship, or shore station, unless in a dress uniform, unless on a work/training detail. “Locker clubs” were common outside many navy bases, where you could rent a locker to keep your civilian clothes and change when leaving/returning to the base. So it was conceivable that you might have to stop at a locker club, change from civvies to a dress uniform, them go on the base, or ship, and change into a working uniform. It was not popular. At some overseas locations, wearing uniforms off base, was discouraged, so as to not draw undue attention to the U.S. military presence. During VN, military charter flights became common and departing/returning troops traveled, on civilian aircraft, in “working” uniforms. Many commanders began allowing married personnel to travel to and from work in working uniforms. In 1970 Adm. Elmo Zumwalt took over as Chief of Naval Operations (CNO) and began issuing his famous, some say “notorious”, Z-grams. Many of the Z-grams were very controversial and initiated sweeping changes in uniform regs. and personal grooming. Beards, mustaches, sideburns and longer hair were permitted. Many senior Navy and Marine officers rebelled at these sudden, drastic changes, but Zumwalt was adamant and most, grudgingly accepted the inevitable. The objections continued to rumble through the ranks, between the “old salts” and the “FNG’s” (you can decipher that). I wouldn’t be surprised if there were some vestiges of the changes left to this day.
When did you live in Plattsburgh? Mrs. Moto grew up there.
I’m pretty sure that if you wear any part of the uniform you should wear the whole thing. The only exception that I know of is you don’t wear a hat indoors unless you are armed, for example the OD. Maybe the rules have changed. You never used to be uncovered outdoors, but I see hatless officers giving outdoor interviews quite often.
Dancing in shirtsleeves isn’t a biggie.
As of 2000, we were told the same thing. You can only stop for gas, diapers, or enough groceries to last you one night. IIRC tobacco may have even been allowed. You were allowed to eat meals in duty uniform, but you were not allowed alcohol at those meals.
When I was in Yong San, Korea, we were told not to wear our uniforms off post unless we were on official duty.
OP by: Hypno-Toad
Generally, the Soldiers (US Army members, I should say for clarity sake) you see at the airport in duty uniform are traveling to or from deployment. We generally don’t bring any uniforms other than the duty uniform or the physical fitness uniforms on deployments, so we travel in the ACU’s or DCU’s.
Sgt Schwartz
At my wedding, my wife’s cousin, then a Captain in the US Army, had a “custom” tux shirt that he wore with his mess kit. With jacket on, all was fine, but the back and sides of his shirt had a University of Georgia Bulldogs pattern. None of the 50 or so officers, including one active and one retired General Officer (One of whom is my F-i-L), appeared to care.
A.R. Cane wrote:
I’m not military, though, as the above should indicate, I married into a military family, but I alwsy thoguht the “official” term was “mess kit” or “mess dress”
to be clear, no one cared when my wife’s cousin danced around in his “custom” shirt
Taking off the jacket is fine. And sometimes, it’s even appropriate.
Also, though it may or may not apply to the interviews you’re talking about, headgear is not required when wearing a bowtie.
RE: ACUs at the Airport:
If you’re flying for deployment reasons, you can wear your informal ACUs. If you’re not deploying, you should be wearing civilian dress during travel.
The relevant official Army Uniforms are:
Blue Mess, White Mess, All-White Mess, Evening White Mess, Evening Mess, and Black Mess. Damn the Army has way too many uniform variations. However, none of them are “Dinner Dress”. Other services may vary, of course.
Testifying before a Congressional committee in relation to your service is most emphatically “duty” – remember the hallowed U.S. tradition of “civilian control of the military.” One assumes that the two Brigadier Generals (they were only Brigadiers if they were in Her Majesty’s Royal Army, and visiting the U.S.) were discussing what policy and logistics were for equipment from a Marine Corps official-policy standpoint, and the Sergeant was subpoenaed to give the related information on how that policy works out in practice. The uniforms may have been chosen to underscore the divergent roles in testimony.
“A.R. Cane wrote: I’m not military, though, as the above should indicate, I married into a military family, but I alwsy thoguht the “official” term was “mess kit” or “mess dress””
I wrote no such thing. I retired, as a Chief Petty Officer, in 1979 w/ 23 years active service in the U.S. Navy (Seabees).
The official name of the Navy “mess dress” is Dinner Dress Blue, designated for Chiefs and Officers. Officers, LCDR. (O-4) and above also have a Dinner Dress White uniform. The “Dinner White” uniform is optional for CPO’s and junior officers.
The official term in the USMC is “Evening Dress”.
As I stated previously, “mess dress” is common usage in all services.
Well, he had shoulder boards like the Lieutenant in the center of this photo, and I believe a cuff stripe, but otherwise, yeah.
When I was in the Marines in the 80’s, we were not even allowed in the E-Club (the Mainside one on Camp Lejeune—the smaller ones were different) to have lunch in utilities. We certainly could not go there to drink, and off-base wearing of utilities was a no-no unless you were driving to and from an off-base house or EMERGENCY stops.