Ask the Audiologist

:: waves hi at Abraca Deborah :: How are things? :slight_smile:

How expensive is it to get my ears tested?

My understanding is that when you have hearing loss, the little hairs in the cochlea (sp?) break off and never work again, meaning hearing loss is permanent. Is this true? If not, can hearing loss be cured?

Re: loud music at concerts and clubs. Part of the attraction is that the bass resonates in one’s body. Doesn’t mean you can’t bring earplugs, though, but I never did. OTOH, I never went to many concerts or clubs. But I do a lot of headphone listening.

Recently, I noticed that I can no longer hear the 15-kHz whine of an analogue CRT TV set. I definitely remember hearing it when I was a kid. I can still imagine it quite clearly (I have a good memory for sounds). Is that loss normal, or do I possibly have a problem?

I often have trouble hearing things in the presence of background noise. Another thing I have noticed is alot of the times I cannot seem to process words unless I am expecting to be spoken to.

Example: “Turn Left here”.

I might get “eft here”. Even in a fairly quiet environment.

I seem to do fine on basic hearing testing.

I had my ears tested a couple of years ago when I was around 38 (I’m almost 41 now), and I didn’t have any significant hearing loss at that point, but I got my ears tested then because of the trouble I’m still having hearing. What gives? How can I be having trouble hearing conversation (both face-to-face and on television) with normal hearing?

Thanks for the note about getting a hearing aid sooner rather than later, Deborah - my mom has been telling us we’re all talking too quietly for years now; we’ve been telling her to get a hearing aid for years, too. Maybe she’ll go get one now that she’s 65 (and if I tell her about this).

Oh, I had another question - I understand that there is some controversy in the deaf community regaring cochlear implants to correct hearing in children (i.e. to vastly simplify, deaf people see themselves as just fine, and don’t see a need to fix something that they don’t consider broken). What is your take on this?

I look forward to any information you may have on the tinnitus I wrote about. I just had an interesting thought. If its frequency could be determined, could I, or any person with the condition, wear a “reverse hearing aid” which feeds the same frequency, 180 degrees out of phase, into both ear canals, to cancel it out?

Okay, now for a serious comment. (by the way, I love your screenname)

What are your views on Bausch and Lomb? A lot of the ENTs I’ve interviewed have expressed some disdain for that company because they seem to be too money-driven and not cutting-edge enough.

I don’t know if you’ve had any experience working with children who were born deaf, but if you have: what’s your opinion on speech rehabilitation techniques that rely on visual feedback? I understand that some centers have taken to using an ultrasound to help teach speech production, which I don’t really have an opnion on… but I know a number of deaf people who, as children, had to put up with spectrum and waveform analysis programs that basically simplified the speech signal into a sine wave, displayed an “ideal” wave for the vowel being practiced, and required the participant to match their voice to the computer’s model as accurately as possible. And every single one of them hated those things, mainly because they were difficult to the point of extreme frusteration… what’s your take?

I’d just like to say thank you for the information.

My husband and I are both musicians and have been since we were teenagers (he’s 52 and I’m 46). We know we both have some hearing loss but didn’t think it significant enough to warrant a trip to the audiologist but your comment about getting hearing aids sooner than later has made me rethink that.

Am I correct in thinking that if the music is loud we’d still wear ear plugs on stage and any hearing aid that we might need would be for non-performance situations?

(bolding mine)

Very informative thread!

Just a little nitpick – your work appears to be similar to that of an optometrist, rather than an ophthalmologist, who is a M.D. specializing in the eye. An optometrist sees patients to prescribe glasses (or contacts) only.

After I had a car accident about five years ago I developed a noise inside my head. It is central and is not like the ringing sensation that one we get in one or both of their ears from time to time. I’ve had all sorts of treatments, from osteopathy to cranial sacral to chiropractic. No definitive results. I’ve also been to a neurologist, ENT and a few other MDs, but they all throw their hands up. Someone suggested I get a ear device to provide white noise, thereby masking the other noise. During the day it’s no too bad, but if I try to read in quiet it can be very distracting. Also, if I wake up in the night it can be near impossible to get back to sleep, I should say that if I put pressure on the top of my head/neck (yoga) that the noise gets considerably louder. And I can turn the volume up by protruding my lower jaw.

Any idea as to what I might do for next steps?

Thanks.

I have problems with my hearing that have never been correctly diagnosed. I have a LOT of difficulty understanding people when there’s background noise, or on the phone (I have trouble even identifying people on the phone), and certain frequencies of sound are downright painful at volumes that don’t seem to bother other people at all (clanking dishes being one example).

Whenever I explain this to a doctor, they give me the same test – they sit me in a quiet room and put a thingie in my ear that makes tones of about three different frequencies, and tell me to raise my hand when I hear a noise. Well duh, of COURSE I can hear those fine, but if they’d given me the same test in a noisy waiting room I would have had a lot of trouble. But nobody seems to actually LISTEN to what I’m trying to explain, so they just tell me my hearing is fine.

Meanwhile, I’ve picked up some habits of the hard-of-hearing – trying to watch peoples’ lips when they talk to me, giving noncommittal answers and spending the next few turns of the conversation frantically trying to decipher what I just heard, relying on closed-captioning on the TV …

My question therefore is: What are my odds of actually getting a formal diagnosis for my problem? Do doctors actually think to order a Hearing In Noise Test, or does that only come after all of the “easy to hear noises in a quiet room” tests? I’ve already kind of given up on getting any help for this, after being told so many times my hearing is fine when it clearly is not, but every once in a while it bothers me so much that I consider trying YET AGAIN to get my doctor to test me for what’s actually wrong. Is it worth even trying, or should I just work on my lip-reading?

Sorry for the delay in getting back, folks. Life and work kind of gets in the way of spending time on the board, doesn’t it? But part of my time away was spent researching your questions and composing answers offline, so it wasn’t all bonbons and Oprah. (Well, it certainly never is that, I can tell you!) Nice to see more questions too!

First, I promised Fishbicycle some comments. I came up with more than a few, actually. And, I see that some of my comments here may also address magellan01’s concerns too. Anyway, here we go…

Tinnitus is a fairly common, yet still poorly understood disorder, and this is why tinnitus questions are difficult. Research continues though, and we learn more about it every day. Fishbicycle, since you have had this for the past 11 years, if it is not greatly interfering with your life, there is likely not much you would or could do about it. But I am curious about what happened to you though, and while I won’t even attempt to guess whether there is a cause and effect between your injury and your tinnitus, I will start with the following.

Sometimes, the force of an impact can affect the fluid-filled structures of the ear. Again, this is simple physics: the bone stops moving when you hit your head, but the fluid in the inner ear keeps moving forward and puts pressure on parts of the fluid-filled chamber that were never designed to experience that sort of pressure. Examples of damage that can result in these cases would include such things as membranes being sheared or displaced. Additionally the cochlea (a fluid-filled structure housed in a bone chamber) could end up being damged from the blow, or the ossicular chain (the hammer, anvil, and stirrup bones) in the middle ear could be damaged somehow. Usually, these sorts of injuries result in some degree of hearing loss. But in your case, a hearing loss doesn’t seem to have happened. (Did it?)

Also, it is known that some medications are ototoxic (a fancy term meaning that they have side effects that adversely affect hearing), and that some medications do indeed produce tinnitus as a side effect. Could it be that some medication you were given at the time of treatment for your accident was among these?

Speaking about “ototoxic agents” reminds me of a little aside I will add. The reason why people who have too much to drink get tipsy and off-balance is because alcohol is such an ototoxic agent. It acts upon the balance mechanism of the inner ear. The drunk doesn’t fall down because he’s lost all inhibitions about how he looks and acts in others’ eyes; his balance is being temporarily physically damaged by an ototoxic agent: alcohol.

You also wanted to know about masking of tinnitus:

Phase cancellation is effective for two physical entities. Since sound is an actual waveform, two waves of equal, but opposite phase can cancel each other out.

But tinnitus is a subjective phenomena and is only heard by the person, and as such, no physical waveform is emitted from the person’s head so that it can interact (combine) with an equal but opposite waveform to cancel it out. Additionally, there are very few pure tones in real life (the only ones I have ever heard have been when using an audiometer or working in the hearing lab at university).

Mostly what is effective is something to mask the tinnitus. Usually a slightly broader band sound than the tinnitus itself is used as a masker. Diagnostically, we try to obtain a tinnitus match where we present various frequencies and various intensities to try and ‘match’ it a closely as possible to the person’s own tinnitus. This exercise is highly subjective. We can then prescribe tinnitus maskers (device that looks much like a hearing aid, and in some cases, can also be used as a hearing aid). In 17 years of practice, I can recall only one or two tinnitus maskers being judged by the patient as being effective enough to purchase. As these devices make noise, most people don’t want to listen to it–they eventually decide to listen to their tinnitus instead!

If tinnitus is causing sleep disturbances, it is possible to mask it by using a commercially available device. CDs with broad band white noise or natural masking sounds are available. Some people find relief in different sound tracks that emulate rain forest, seaside, rainy day environments, and many others. Sound pillows with small speakers embedded in the pillows are offered by several manufacturers. It may even be as simple as tuning the bedside radio to a point between two stations to get that “white” noise which can then be made louder or softer. This will usually mask the tinnitus so that you can get to sleep.

But what if the tinnitus is to the point where the quality of your life is degraded? Are there any therapies for tinnitus?

There are some. Most notably there is Tinnitus Retraining Therapy (TRT). It has been developed by Dr. P. Jastreboff and Dr. J. Hazell, and has received a great deal of attention in the past decade. It is based on a neurophysiological principle and has shown some positive results as a form of therapy in helping people recover from tinnitus. (As part of my doctoral program, I get to take a class on tinnitus with Dr. Jastreboff! Only an audiologist could get excited about it.)

Basically, TRT is a ‘re-training’ program in which the neural plasticity of the brain is used to an advantage. Our brains are able to increase or decrease the amount of attention paid to various stimuli (internal and external). This ability is subconscious, and it is governed by the limbic system of the brain. The limbic system is not only responsible for such physical things as our heart rate and hormone production, it is also responsible for our emotional feelings of well-being or distress.

When a person is experiencing tinnitus, there can be a negative subconscious reaction, which will affect the limbic system, which is closely tied to the autonomic nervous system. This will eventually lead to a conscious reaction, which is all part of a cycle of events that can bring great frustration and stress to a person’s life. It is a sort of cascade effect: tinnitus leads to a subconscious negative response which in turn leads to negative emotions.

TRT uses two basic principles: One is to use sound therapy to help with recovery. The second is to provide directive counseling by a specially trained and experienced clinician (usually an audiologist or a psychologist). The therapy can be lengthy, ranging from several months to a year or so in duration, it requires commitment from the patient, and may or may not be covered by insurance. It can be expensive.

I have no direct experience in this therapy (yet), so I cannot offer much more that what is stated above. But I hope I have addressed your questions somehow. As you can tell, it sure wasn’t bonbons and Oprah!

Okay, let’s see if I can get a few quick answers out. I must say thanks to all of you for being so patient.

Sunspace: The cost of a hearing test.

There’s no single answer here, as you may have guessed. Costs range from “Free” to the $65 to $120 range in Toronto. I put “free” in scary quotes because the hearing test is free, but I hope you can understand if I disagree with providing professional services at no charge. Does your dentist offer free dental exams?

Would your insurance pay for a hearing test? For you, Sunspace, probably not. Your provincial insurance plan delisted hearing tests a few years ago, and now you must pay out of pocket for one, unless you have been referred for a hearing test through an ENT, in which case, OHIP will pay for it. You may be covered for a non-referred hearing test through your supplementary medical insurance at work—read your benefits booklet, or ask your HR department. This latter advice is also applicable to our American friends who have private medical insurance.

Sunspace: Cochlea hairs.

Yes, you understand things correctly. The hair cells of the cochlea are like brain cells: once damaged, they don’t repair; once dead, they don’t regrow. So hearing loss is irreversible and permanent. (See, kids? Turn it down or lose it for good!)

Sunspace: The 15,000 Hz whine; and featherlou, on early-40s hearing loss. These questions are related.

Not having examined either of you personally, I can’t do anything more than speak in general terms. Anyway, just as most people begin to need glasses (for reading, at least) as they get older, so do people start to lose the high frequencies of their hearing due to age. The range of human hearing extends to 20,000 Hz at the top end, however, it is the high frequencies that we lose first as we age. The condition of losing high frequencies to age, in case you wanted to know (and I saw it in a trivia game once so you may well need to know if you like trivia games) is called presbycusis (prez-bi-CUE-sis).

featherlou: Hearing test is normal, but problems with background noise.

In my experience, I’ve tested many people who described difficulties hearing in background noise and found them to have normal hearing. They were relieved to know that their hearing was normal, but they were puzzled as to why they were having trouble hearing in some situations. Mostly, the reasons lay in poor/reverberant room acoustics, noisy environments that masked speech sounds, and/or the level of one’s own attention (and/or one’s stress levels) in certain situations.

drachillix: Background noise and sounds “dropping out.”

This sounds a lot like what Philosphr was experiencing. See my answer to him above, especially from the paragraph beginning “The answer is based on a couple of things.” That should address your question too—let me know if it does.

I will add that once we know a message is coming our way, we tend to pay closer attention than if we’re occupied with something else. Thus if we’re busy with driving the car and not expecting to hear a message (and not watching a friend for the visual cues that would indicate a message is coming), we could miss the first part of any message coming from a friend in the car. So, we’ll get “eft here” instead of “turn left here.” Maybe the person giving directions could lead any statement with your name. That would certainly alert you that a message is coming your way.

Least Original User Name Ever: Bausch & Lomb

Again, as I mentioned above, I’d prefer not to discuss the pros and cons of specific manufacturers. At any rate, I really couldn’t say anything anyway, since as an audiologist in Canada, I don’t believe I’ve ever come across their product. It could be that they operate under a different name up here. Sorry I can’t be more helpful.

Ellen Cherry: D’oh! :smack: You’re right. I’m more like an optometrist than an opthamologist. I’m certainly not an MD, anyway. Sorry for any confusion.
Okay, I’ll post these up. If I haven’t got to your question yet, it’s because I’ll need to think about it a bit, do some research, and so on. Some of these are complicated, but they’re all good. And thank you for the compliments—I’m pleased to hear that you’re finding the thread to be informative!

So not being able to hear that whine is sort of normal. I still might bet a test, when I scrape trogether some spare cash. Thanks, Abraca Deborah!

Not that I’m disagreeing with you, just thought it was worth pointing out that This Is Spinal Tap was released in 1984. :smiley:

How common is super hearing? I have a mild case of hypersensitivity disorder, but have phenomenal hearing. Several tests both civilian and military have confirmed it. In my last exam I had to be tested three times because I kept false triggering on my **neighbor’s ** cubicle. Apparently this was considered to be almost impossible, so they tested me three times and confirmed that I could indeed hear the tone of my neighboring cubicle’s headphones through the wall and with my own set on and running. Eventually, I was tested alone to get an accurate reading.

More importantly should I take any certain precautions to keep my mutant ears in tip-top shape as I age?

Thank you for your extensive comments! To answer your questions, at the time of the accident, they didn’t check my head or ears for damage at the ER, and I have never been to an audiologist. I don’t seem to have had any hearing loss.

I play music (not too loud or long) and produce it for a living, and my hearing seems as good as it ever was. Actual testing may show otherwise, but there isn’t any deficiency that I can tell. I didn’t have tinnitus before hitting my head on the concrete. In the 37 years I lived in Canada, I was never been prescribed medicine stronger than penicillin. In fact, I can cound the number of prescriptions I’ve ever had on the fingers of one hand. In recent years I had dental work, for which they prescribed Vicodin. So it’s unlikely that any medicine has been responsible for it, or has exacerbated it.

Regarding the question of the cancellation effect, I wasn’t thinking that my ears were generating a tone that could be heard outside them. But it does bring up the question of where the sound is coming from. Is it inside my ear drum, or coming from my brain?

Thanks again.

Slow day at work today, so I had time to compose more answers offline. Here we go…

I am not sure if your are referring to an aurtomatic audiometer that is programmed to run thought a series of “doo doo doos”, or if there is a human tester present who is simply getting into a predictable pattern (the person should be varying the pattern so you cannot anticipate when the tone will be presented). In either case, it is in your best interest to wait to push the clicky thing when you hear the tone, no matter how soft it is. This way it is possible to determine if your hearing is changing or not. If you begin anticipating when the “doo doo doos” are coming, it can skew the results and yield questionable results.

To me, it all depends on the case at hand. I’m aware of the controversy, but as an audiologist, it is my job to educate the parents (whether deaf or hearing) about the various options available to them. I must also support them in their decision to go whichever way they feel is best for their child. I usually have an opinion one way or another, but I keep it to myself because I feel it would be unethical and unfair to voice it, since it may unduly influence parents over what can be a very difficult and emotionally-troubling decision that only they can make.

In short, without the facts of a case at hand, I am not necessarily pro or con either way. It really depends on the individual case.

Wow! Great question! The method you’re describing is used to try to improve speech articulation. Patients who undergo this therapy aren’t necessarily unable to communicate since often they are very capable of using sign language. But helping them with speech improves their chances of being understood by non-signers. I’ve got a little story on this:

I used to work with a young boy who was deaf and wore the hearing aids to keep his parents and the teachers happy. I am not entirely sure the aids were providing him with more than some environmental cues. We worked for hours with the Visi-Pitch which was a device that could visually display voice production. I would make the sound which would show up as a certain waveform on the screen. Then he would try and adjust his voice to match it (more or less). Most of the time, he grew quite bored and would resort to licking the microphone like a lollipop. Ew. This type of therapy was about the only way for him to try and train his voice to approximate speech–as he was unable to hear the sounds, he could not mimic them. His preference was to not talk at all as he was very self-conscious about his voice, and he preferred sign language.

As you might guess, I think this sort of therapy it is tedious. It is a great deal of work (for the therapist and the child) to get through these drills. But I will admit that it may be the best way to improve their speech ability to speak in such a way that others can understand them. I won’t say that this is always the best therapy or not, since as always, these things are viewed on a case-by-case basis.