I just want to thank you for posting this thread. I had never heard of Melungeons before. But it seems like I have every single one of these traits. I always knew there was something off about the explainations that my ancestry is ultra-nordic. For one thing, everyone in my family burns when they even think about going out in the sun. But I develop a really deep tan and never burn. Somehow I manange to have olive based skin despite being extremely pale. And I have really unusual cat eyes that I’ve never seen on anyone else. According to that website, my eyes have a bit of an Asian eyefold.
You learn something every day. But this is far far more interesting than what I learned yesterday (which was that my boyfriend was born without nipples)
Are there any non-physical distinctly Melungeon characteristics? For instance, speech patterns, vocabulary, style of dress. Are there surnames that are distinctly Melungeon (or that once upon time were)?
even sven – You’re very welcome; I try my best. Good luck looking up your genealogy – your physical traits sound very like common Melungeon traits, but it may just be that you have some Amerindian ancestry (or that your great-great-grandma was friendly with the milkman!).
I’m very pale myself, but I don’t burn. When I was a child, my daddy used to take me fishing all summer on his boat. By September, I’d be a deep black color all over, an odd contrast with my blonde hair and blue eyes. I’ve since stopped tanning to protect my skin and myself from cancer, so my melanin levels have dropped drastically since then. I don’t have the epicanthic eye-fold, though.
TGWATY – There are a number of surnames common in the Melungeon community. Please note that not all Melungeons possess these names, nor are all bearers of these surnames of Melungeon origin. Kinda like Korean Lees and English Lees. Same last name, different origins. My own ancestors were Tallys, Harveys, and Nicholses, among others. They hailed from Tennessee.
Damn, you learn something new every day. My family had an “kidnapped by Indians myth” but there was no substantiation to it. We tend to tan very well (I burn at the beginning of summer but then tan to a pretty dark brown, my fairer skinned sister burns only on her face but tans every where else) though we tend to have blond to red hair. I realize that I have shovel teeth. They are slightly curved on the inside, particularly the incisors. There is also a little ridge at the gum line that will click when I scrape on it. I used to think that was tarter but I recently had my teeth cleaned. As for the the ridge, I have a small bump that is almost in the exact center of the back of my head. You can feel it when pressing against it, but it wasn’t noticeable when I had my head shaved. Tarnations! My name is even on the common surname list from above. I wonder if that means that I am a Melungeon too?
dorkusmalorkusmafia – If you have ancestors from Appalachia (specifically Virginia, Kentucky, North Carolina, West Virginia, and Tennessee) you have find that you are a Melungeon descendant. Check into your genealogy; you might be surprised.
Also, if you find that you are indeed of Melungeon ancestry, I’d suggest being on the lookout for certain illnesses that are found in some Melungeon descendants. There are cases of people being tragically misdiagnosed by doctors unaware of their heritage, who didn’t think their patients could possibly be suffering from Mediterranean fever, for instance, because the patient doesn’t look Arabic or Turkish or what-have-you. Very frightening.
I’ve always had a bump and I’ve never really known what to think of it. But the “Anatolian bump” explanation makes as much sense as anything else seeing as I have some Turkish blood in me through the side of my family that came from Greece.
I also have “shovel teeth,” though I didn’t even realize that I did or that it was anything out of the ordinary until I checked out that site. The other side of my family is definitely Appalachian in origin. But geneology gets a little hazy after that, other than Scotch-Irish and German.
I’m not convinced, but it is certainly a plausible possibility. Bears further investigation anyway.
I checked out some records, and I do have some relatives with Melungeon-associated last name in the Appalachians. I havn’t found anything to confirm that they were Melungeons, but I’ll keep looking.
Middle East-North Africa. My area of speciality and where I work.
Oh yes, I am quite sure about the bump, fits the description perfectly. As do the teeth.
However, I hate to rain on the parade, but I find the physical characteristics issue to be rather a bit suspicious.
On one hand, I had heard the shovel teeth being a North Amerind physical trait before – although without substantiation, however the Anatolian bump is a new thing to me.
I search around a bit and could find nothing to substantiate either off of Mulungeon sites – which largely seem to be composed of somewhat dodgy pseudo-anthropology.
Now, I am not calling into question Mulungeonness per se – it rather strikes me as non-controversial the basic outlines of quasi-outcast mixed race group arising from early colonial contacts…
However some of the Turkish etc. connexions strike me as excessively wishfull thinking (and why not, I love the Turks personally, although their Raki will leave you wishing for hospital).
I wonder if anyone can make it their project to look into this Anatolian bump, for I find it bizarre that I would have such a thing. As I mentioned, my geneology is tediously well-documented for a rather tedious length of time, so I can exclude Appalachian connexions categorically. Early colonial intermarriage, that seems likely, but it leave the ‘Turkish’ angle rather obscure, however much it appeals to me emotionally.
Very interesting. My relatives stopped in Kentucky before they were on their way to Texas. The only ethnic groups in my family tree that I am currently aware of are British (Wales and England), German, and Russian. I don’t think any of those groups are known to tan well. So there is likely something else in there. My eyes are green too. It seems that it may be something to look into with geneology. Very interesting thread. Thanks Nichol.
As for the ethnic origins of Melungeons and the phenotypical indications thereof, I must state once again I am not an athropologist and therefore not qualified to pass judgment one way or the other on the matter. Traits such as head ridges, shovel teeth, Anatolian bumps, and epicanthic eye-folds are common among Melungeon descendants, and as a consequence are often used as indicators of descent – note that this is NOT a hard-and-fast rule; some people possess none or only some of these traits but still have Melungeon ancestry.
I’m on the fence myself as far as the origins of the Melungeons go, mostly because all the literature I’ve seen on the subject seems to be written to support an agenda. Some claim that we are descendants of stranded Turks and Arabs; others say we’re “mulattos” of Scots-Irish and African ancestry. I’ve seen everything from the Lost Colony of Roanoke to the Lost Tribe of Israel suggested as our origin.
DNA testing done on 100 women of Melungeon descent – the men’s results have yet to come back – show 5% genetic markers in common with Amerindian populations, 5% genetic markers in common with African populations, and 90% genetic markers in common with Eurasian populations. In the latter group there is a 7% grouping of lines from Turkey, Syria, northern India, and Sephardic Jewish populations, suggesting that at least some of the Melungeon claims to Turk ancestry are in fact valid.
Dr. James Guthrie’s 1969 gene frequency research on 177 samples of the blood of Melungeon descendants indicated no major differences between Melungeons and most of the North Africans, Libyans, Canary Islanders, Maltese, and Cyprians. Add to this the fact that we seem to be especially vulnerable to diseases found mainly in Mediterranean populations, and it seems clear enough that Melungeons are of Mediterranean (among other) descent. Beyond that, I get suspicious, as everyone seems to want us to be something, be it gypsies or descendants of sailors left by Sir Walter Raleigh.
Also – for those who are interested in investigating their Melungeon ancestry, I suggest using the Genforum board along with hard copies of genealogical records in your search. There are a number of online resources and organizations devoted to assisting Melungeon descendants research their ancestry.
Nichol, thanks very much for the enlightening information. It’s gotta be a little frustrating to have just enough hard data to be tantalizing but not enough to be proof.
Have you read Bill Bryson’s The Lost Continent? He mentions both the Melungeons and the rather curious reactions one gets in certain parts of Appalachia when one asks about them.
This is probably unrelated to “true Melungeons” (people from southern Appalachia), but years ago I read about an expedition of people from New Spain (what is now Texas/northern Mexico) to Louisiana and perhaps beyond in the 18th century. The went out from Nacogdoches, Texas (the northernmost Spanish settlement) and went east.
These people, mostly Spanish and mestizo Mexicans - with perhaps a few mixed African people - lost contact with Spanish authorities and supposedly spread out in parts of the south. Years later they came into contact with Anglo-American pioneers, and more or less absorbed these scattered settlers, and some people who are referred to as “Melungeons”, “Redlegs” and other such names have these ancestors.
I believe the name of the explorer was Ybarra or Ybarba, and over time it was corrupted to “Ebarb”, which still may be some people’s surname. I haven’t seen this online anywhere, this was mainly a footnote in the history of the Spanish in Texas and Florida.
I can relate to some of the genealogical information over the Melungeons. My mother’s family is from Northern New Mexico. For ages, it was merely assumed that her people were descended from the old Spanish settlers. Lately though there has been some discussion that many of these people are in fact the long lost descendants of Jewish “conversos”.
As with the Melungeons, there is tantalising evidence - but no ‘hard proof’ that would rewrite a lot of conventional history books.
Nichol_storm, the migration trail that you have described is the same as mine and my great-grandmother was an Orr. The female lines of my genealogy have been lost – as often happens.
Some of the surnames were of particular interest to me: Wilson, Williamson, White, Coffey, Jackson, Perry, Gibson, Stewart and Robertson are all counties in Tennessee. There may be other counties in that list that I missed.
I have none of the characteristics often associated with the Melungeons, but I have been fascinated by their presence in my state. Yet I have never met anyone who claimed to be Melungeon. You also cleared up some of the stereotypes for me. I thought that all Mulungeons had black hair and that they generally separated themselves from the rest of society.
I will be doing a little research to see if I can find a connection for me.
*Thank you so much * for providing answers for the questions that have interested me for 35 years. (That is when I first learned of this group. I was asked to collaborate on writing an opera about the Melungeons and I didn’t know anything about them. Writing the libretto for an opera was a very far-fetched idea to me anyway.)
Just wondering–if “shovel teeth” are not a normal trait, then what are “normal” teeth shaped like? Because I seem to have “shovel teeth,” and I always assumned I had normal teeth.
Very Very intresting thread. Thanks for posting it.I’ve never herd of the meleguenos before, however being from the south I have heard of “Redbones” (prehaps what syncro was mentioning) Intrestingy enough, I’ve only heard of (and possibile seen) Redbone women, and we actullay considered them no more than light skinned (or prehaps albino) blacks. Somtime the word pops up when describing a “thick” (not fat, but big in some “good” areas) black woman who has almost asian or tanned white skin color but black facial features.
As for meleungeons, I tried to find a few picutres and such, but nothing really came up. The one pic I did see seemd to appear almost Turkish (Arab feautres, but not tanned skinned) but nothing darker. Prehaps similar to Gyspies.
I am curious,what form of the Christian religion is practiced among meleguenos. Also is there any particualr way they tend to vote poitically. I know not one particualr enthic group of people always vote the same,however religious communities (like Mormons) tend to.
Sagasumono – I’ve heard of Redbones from black friends of mine, who described them as being light-skinned blacks. There seems to be two separate definitions of the term – Redbones who are light-skinned blacks, and a Mestee group called the Redbones who live primarily in Louisianna.
Melungeons.com has a few pictures of Melungeons for you to see. I also have a picture up on my profile at Teeming Millions.
I asked my friend Nancy Sparks Morrison from Melungeon Health about religious affliations. I have to thank her for her prompt and enlightening response – as so often happens, she said it better than I could. According to her:
I am skeptical of some of the wilder claims regarding “Melungeon” ancestry. What seems most likely to me is that there was some mixing of Cherokee, European, and to a lesser extent African going on in the “hollers” of Appalachia, which accounts for the dark skin sometimes seen. (I say “to a lesser extent African” simply because there were very few slaves in Appalachia.)
This business of Ottoman slaves or the lost colony of Roanoke coming into the mix seems pretty far-fetched.
Also, I want to introduce a poll to this thread, to test a hypothesis of mine:
Is there anyone reading this thread who doesn’t have “shovel teeth,” as described herein? (I’m starting to wonder if shovel teeth may be the norm rather than the exception, based on some of the thread responses.)
Nichol, this is a very interesting thread you’ve started.
Is the Anatolian bump the same thing as the inion? I’ve not found any references that tie the two terms together, but their definitions seem to describe the same thing. If they are, consider the following: It is my understanding that all humans have inions, though there is variation in size. I know many people who can’t feel theirs, but mine is very pronounced. Men’s inions are generally more pronounced than women’s. Maybe Anatolian bumps are larger-than-average inions.
The only reference I’ve found to a correlation between inion size and ethnicity was on a website describing the details forensic anthropologists consider in determining a person’s race based on his or her skull. Apparently, pronounced inions are more common among people of European descent. I’ve not found anything about Turks or any other specific local population being especially gifted in the inion department. That is, of course, except for the sites that call it an Anatolian bump (assuming they are the same thing). This is a little troubling since the use of that name might indicate a prejudice on the matter. However, I’ve only made a brief search for an ethnic connection and I don’t claim to know the truth of the matter. It is an interesting thing to read about, though.