Ask the Nihilistic Anarchist with unpopular ideas about the world

I don’t drink and I suggest you slow down as it affects your logic. Pretending that something important does not matter to you is simply self-delusion and ultimately self-destructive. I can lie down on the tracks and pretend that trains don’t matter, but it won’t change the fact that my reality will be completly changed when a train comes along.

You argue that we basically exist in an anarchist world today, where the strongest can destroy the weak at their whim. This isn’t really true. Bill Gates has far more power than I do, but because I am allied with a governmental state I am fairly immune from him as long as I obey the rules of that state and use Linux. I can even call him names if I want, something your state of nothingness might not allow me to get away with.

So, what do you predict life will be like in 20-25 years from now when all the baby-boomers are elderly, and people my age will then be middle aged, doubly stressed by caring for both their children and parents? Do you think there are any forseeable sociological impacts?

I refuse to disregard it Astro, as it’s a valid (if a little alcohol induced) question. :smiley:
Anything mattering or not mattering has to be a personal feeling/oppinion about the world. Hence, if something does not matter to you, it is unimportant by definition.

Hope that answers your question and gives you a nasty headache when you read this during your inevitable hangover tomorrow :smiley:

*Morrison lifts glass of Tsingtao beer
Cheers, mate :wink:

— G. Raven

Sorry about the multiple posts btw.

There will indeed the sociological impacts, I and most other “sociologists / future sociologists” are wracking our brains to try and find out which ones.

I basically think that very little will change within individual industrialized countries within our lifetimes. The biggest changes will be from the effects of globalization on previously underdeveloped countries, the balance of power in the world is bound to change.

As for idealogical changes, they will by negligable. Most people seem chiefly concerned with money today, whether they call themselves Communists or Republicans. In the past we’ve seen a pattern of young people adopting the ideals of their parents as they grow older and I don’t see that changing.
— G. Raven

You misunderstood, I meant to communicate that the statement “does it matter if it matters?” answers itself. If something matters, then by definition it matters if it matters or not.

As for the ability of Bill Gates to crush you, consider the option of an assassin. Not that he would do such a thing, but if you have resources and brains you can get away with most things today.

As for your “alliance” with the government, let us not forget that you are paying plenty back by following their rules. For instance, people can call YOU names back :smiley:

Seriously though, this whole thread has been a fairly internal dialogue for me. The truth is I’m more a full fledged nihilist than an anarchist, I just find their views compelling. If my mood was different I might be on the other side of this entire debate.

I don’t really believe in anything except the contradictory statement that “Everything is relative”. And after all, you can only stop an endless cycle of thoughts by believing in a contradiction. Something solid. Something definite.

— G. Raven

I just wanted ro revist this thread for a second, since I found a transcript that puts my thoughts on anarchism into much better words than I ever could:

http://www.zmag.org/chomsky/interviews/9612-anarchism.html

It’s an interview with Noam Chomsky on Anarchism. He’s written a lot on the subject and I recommend anyone seriously interested in the ideology (or lack of it) to pick up some of his stuff.
He’s a rare genius.

— G. Raven

I love it when people talk about anarchy or anarchism. Anarchy, they cry, the strong controlling the weak, people doing whatever they can get away with, dogs and cats, living together! Well, guess what people, that’s exactly what we have. Anarchy has always been the rule. It isn’t a matter of whether you endorse it. It’s the way it is, and always has been.

Why do most people obey the government? Because the government has guns, and uniformed thugs using those guns, and bombs and tanks, and prisons, and they will use them against you if you don’t obey. Would you pay taxes if there were no threat of violence (including financial violence) against those who refuse? Probably not. And about the financial violence–would you pay the fines if there were no threat of prison, or worse? Probably not. The government controls us not because it is wise or right, but because it is strong. If you had the means to collect a bunch of weapons and people to wield them, you could control a government too. You could be your own government. All it takes is money–lots of it. Best gathered in the form of taxes, which is more convenient if you use guns and prisons as a threat against those who refuse to pay. And guns and prisons can be had by anyone with enough money. There is no moral authority in government–only power.

What most people don’t think about is that anarchy is simply the strong doing what they want, without consideration for the desires of the weak. In anarchy, the only authority is that which the strong imposes on the weak by means of force. Well, hello! That’s the world we live in! It’s the world we’ve always lived in.

Of course there are many kinds of power. Some power comes from numbers, some comes from money, some comes from what lies just north of the hemline of a short skirt. Anarchy is doing whatever you have the power to do, and there are many kinds of power. But don’t be fooled: no government ever had any authority that it didn’t get from violence or threats of violence, real or imagined.

Democracy works fairly well without using too much obvious violence, but it works because people revolt, sometimes in large numbers, against excessive violence. Democratic governments protect the rights of their citizens to exercise free speech only because it is expedient to do so. Rebels are tolerated by intelligent governments because they provide a relief valve for the pressure that builds up in society. “Democratic” governments know that they can suck more tax money from people who are allowed to believe that they have some control over their destinies. So they allow the people to believe that. But what we see as government is nothing more than the natural consequence of anarchy, the natural anarchy that has always ruled the world.

Imagine that all government was suddenly disbanded. All the politicians and police officers were laid off, all the soldiers were discharged. Anything you want to do, you can do. No laws. Within a few hours, neighborhoods would organize into vigilante bands of people armed with shotguns and baseball bats, to protect themselves against “criminals.” Within a day or two, they would be organized at the city level, and provided with uniforms. Soon the organization would spread to larger levels, and we would call it–government. That’s exactly what we have.

It’s not all bad. The government does try to protect us from thieves and rapists, but only because if it didn’t, we wouldn’t pay the taxes that facilitate the lavish lifestyles of the governors. If it didn’t do anything for us, we wouldn’t continue to feed the bloated egos of those who govern us. But it is still anarchy. Anarchy isn’t very pretty, but it isn’t so bad. It’s the world we live in. The strong eat the weak, and weak feed the strong. Might as well get used to it, and get comfortable with your position on the food chain.

Actually, I don’t approve of anarchy. I would prefer that kindness and logic and fun ruled the world, but that just ain’t the way it is. You got the muscle, you can do whatever you want, whether I like it or not.

Jeez, it’s much too late to be thinking about all this, and nobody cares anyway. It doesn’t matter, and even if it does matter, that doesn’t matter. (Astroboy was right!) My only point was that I find it funny that people get so freaked out when they hear the word “anarchy.” As if there were ever anything else!

Hi Mr O

I think I agree with most of your points… we do live in a world where anarchy prevails.

I guess your point is… power = authority = anarchy

(Given another thread where you and I first met earlier today, I would argue that I know who’s behind the anarchic scheme of things!)

However, power I believe is inert… it is what you do with power that is significant. Gain power but use it wisely… it can be done.

Then love, logic and fun may prevail.

Wow, my thread resurrected and this time people seem to agree with me!

Rock on!! :smiley:

— G. Raven

p.s. God bless Gothenburg :smiley:

what made you decide to live in the people’s republic of china?
what do you love and hate about it?

is there anything there that is very similar to your native land?

Well, it was a combination of many factors. I hate Iceland with a deep passion and have lived in England and Holland as much as possible throughout the years (my father used to live there).
When I was 19 my father’s wife got a diplomatic posting to Beijing to work in the Icelandic embassy and I was offered the opportunity to tag along and do my own thing.

I’ve always hated the way Marxism is depicted in the western media. Because the general discourse on it is so negative, it made me pick up some books about the subject. I was very much sympathetic to the Socialist outlook on life and how they are continually misunderstood and misrepresented by people living half a world away.
I decided to go and check things out for myself would be a great chance to see what is true and what had been made up about the way Communism impacts daily life in China.
Now I’m in university, studying the Social sciences. Not sure if I’ll end up specializing Psychology or Sociology though. Political theory doesn’t really intregue me any more since it’s all a pissingcontest and is controled by one of the participants.

What I love about China is the people, the semingly bottomless depth of the culture and how this seems to put the entire human race into context for me. There is nothing right or wrong about the way we do things. Yet Asians seem to feel forced/compelled to follow our traditional pursuit of wealth while keeping their own traditions alive in a completely different context.
What I hate about it is that no one seems to have any answers to how the one party state is going to be transformed into the total and limitless democracy of a worker state. I don’t see how logging me online and shutting off sites such as CNN, BBC, Geocities and Anonymizer.com is going to help the proletariat.
Apart from that, I think they are doing a fantastic job under some of the most percarious circumstances in the world.

As for similarities to Iceland, there are very few on the surface. We are all human, however, and the more I saty here the more similarities become apparent. The approach may be worlds apart, but the goals seem to be uniform across the globe. We all just want to be happy and get along.

— G. Raven