Ask the Service Dog Handler/Trainer...!

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
21

He’s an old dog, and he’s set in his ways. If he’s a typical terrier, he must like food… if he does, use this to your advantage. You can certainly use the harness. Lure him with some grub for handling his legs, and try to work as fast as you can (or have a helper). If you think he’d do better with it, you can also try a head halter. They work much like a horse halter in that you end up controlling where the head goes. Really useful when you want to make their heads come up (stop sniffing, darn it!) and they can’t really pull from their noses!

The key to making him stop sniffing/pulling and actually have him HEELING so you can walk is to make YOU more interesting than the rest of stuff out there. If he’s food motivated, go about it that route. Show him the GOOD STUFF (hot dog bits, cheese, good high-value treats) and hold it up against your chest, start walking. He will quickly learn to look up at you while you walk. Praise him (if you clicker train, I’d say click, treat). Reward him for doing exactly what you want him to - heeling, looking up at you, not pulling, etc. At first, this will take time… but in the long run, it’s well worth it. You can also teach him the “look at me!” command so you can get his attention back when he’s busy sniffing or thinking about marking everything along the way. Again, he’ll initially only do it if YOU are more interesting that “IT”. :wink: It’s tougher with an old dog that’s set in its ways, but if you keep sessions initially short and fun, he’ll catch on in no time.

Principle of Operant Conditioning: They engage in behaviors because they get something out of it.

So your boy gets something out of the pulling, marking, and being a yutz while you try to walk. The idea here is to change the equation, make it WAY more valuable for him to pay attention to YOU, heel properly and enjoy the walk… :slight_smile: Find his currency and go with it.

I have two VERY food motivated dogs. One is not, and is toy motivated. I can make him do ANYTHING for his rolled leather tug toy. :wink:

22

Thanks! That puts me at ease a bit. For some reason or another that’s always bothered me some.

Another question: I’ve seen what looks very much like seeing-eye dogs skipping one bus as it passes, only to encourage the owner to stop a second bus. Can a dog recognize the sign on a bus (by color or some other means), or was this an instance of me reading too much into what I saw?

Also: have you ever dealt with a dog that’s frightened of the clicker used in clicker training? My dog - a half-breed black lab/chow - well … she whimpers and shivers when she hears the thing. She’s also scared of thunder and lightening. Would it be cruel and unusual punishment for me to try to desensitize her to the clicker?

23

Am I interpreting this correctly: you have been a service animal trainer for some time (as we know), and now you use one yourself? (Feel free to respond at whatever level of detail you’re most comfortable with, including “nunnayer beeswax.”)

That would be quite a coinkydink.

24

Life handed me a shitload of lemons last year. I decided to chuck them out the window and had my orange juice instead. Far sweeter anyway.

I’ve been a dog trainer for a long time, yep… and last year, I started having some serious problems with my spine. It’d been a problem on and off since teenagehood, but no one had really put their finger on the actual cause… until a very astute rheumatologist put two and two together, sent me for an MRI, and came back with a diagnosis - ankylosing spondylitis. And myofascial pain syndrome (just because, you know, why not make it more interesting?).

As I was kind of in shock over THAT, it was pointed out to me that I could probably do very well with a service dog to help me around - help me get up from chairs, help me up stairs… help me with my balance issues (related to a brain injury sustained a long time ago) and sensory integration issues.

Duh, said I. And just to make matters even MORE interesting, the young pup I was raising at that point in time was just at the age where he could start doing public access training and actual task training.

Sometimes life works in strange ways.

25

We had a lot of luck with the Gentle Leader on our leash-pulling/chokes-himself mutt. The way the vet described it was like reins for a horse - where you point the head, the body follows. The only thing I don’t like about it is that the uninitiated often mistake it for a muzzle and assume he’s a mean dog, but other than that, it’s saved my arm from being pulled out of the socket!

26

Regarding the bus dog - you may or may not be reading too much into it. I trained a dog who was really great at recognizing drivers and would always line up appropriately for its handler. Another I knew would always stop and stand at the SAME spot every day, and the drivers who ran that route knew to pick up that particular handler and his dog! We have no real proof that dogs can work out number recognition (i.e. see and understand the numbers on the bus), but some do seem to have this… knack for recognizing the right bus, route, and driver!

I’ve seen dogs be scared stiff of clickers and the sound they make. There are some clickers that have different sounds to work with. You could also work with a glass juice bottle cap (you know, the ones that make a soft pop sound) for a while until she gets used to that.

But yes, you can totally desensitize her to the sound. Again, it’s a question of association - she needs to associate the sound with something really REALLY great, and you, who she looks to for comfort and reassurance, have to be so EXCIIIIITED about it that it’s the most wonderful thing EVAAAAR… :wink:

One way to do it is to have an assistant with you - stand the person at the other end of the room, put the dog on leash, next to you. Make a happy fuss: “Oh boy! Oh boy this is so much fun! Isn’t this FUN?” wind the dog up. Have the assistant click. The SECOND you hear the sound, shove (!) a high-value treat into your dog’s mouth, and raise up the fuss: “Oh god! How exciting! Check this out!” Have the assistant click again. “Oh BOY! Treats! Good dog! Oh boy!” Click again, treat, “Isn’t this the BEST? Are you excited? I’m excited!”

:wink: If the dog likes its food, you can also feed it dinner and stand away, click while she eats. She will associate the sound with something positive - food, high-value treats, you being really happy about it (and not scared!)

If she’s so frightened of it as to be totally incapable of paying attention to the treat, move the assistant out of the room, click from afar. Be quick to reward when you hear the soft click, so she starts learning to listen for it, too.

Good luck!

27

Gentle leaders are widely used as training equipment for service dogs! God I love those things. They certainly save arms, legs, and sockets! Even older dogs can adapt well to them, assuming you don’t make a fuss of it, slip it on fast (with treats!) and head out to do something FAAAAR more interesting than worrying about having something over the schnozz.

And youre right, Katriona - some people I encounter also think it’s a muzzle… even when the dog was PANTING its little hart out, mouth wide open, tongue hanging out!

It’s also the most WONDERFUL tool to prevent what we call “crittering” - following squirrels, cats, field mice instead of paying close attention to the job in young service dogs in training! They run off on you, and POOF, they hit the end of the leash and end up with their nose pointed at you. Takes all the fun out of the whole thing. Aaaand once again, we’re back to “They do it cuz it works… they stop doing it cuz it doesn’t work anymore, and it’s not worth it.” :wink:

28

I need a service dog. I pass out without warning due to a heart condition. It happens rarely enough that I still go about my every day life as normal, but I’ve always been worried it will hit me while I’m driving, or in another dangerous situation. According to witnesses, before I faint, I exhibit symptoms a dog could be trained to notice.

I already have three dogs, so getting another one isn’t really an option. I do, however, have a dog who would be perfect for the task. Not only is he super-well-behaved in public, but he’s also tiny and portable. He’s also extremely intelligent, and I can’t imagine it would be difficult to train him in this one task.

I tried contacting local service dog training centers, but they (the ones who responded, that is) all said that they never worked with owners’ dogs. One suggested I go to a regular dog trainer and use the clicker method to train him to alert on seeing my symptoms.

I suppose this could be easily accpmplished, but the problem with this is that I don’t know if businesses would recognize him as a “real” service dog if I did that. (And I’ve passed out in enough stores and resturants to where I would definitly want to take him with me.)

Any suggestions?

29

Wow, I’d never heard of those head halters! That would be so much easier to get him into. When I get down on the floor to get him into the regular harness he rolls over for belly scritchings. Which would be fine if I’d already gotten it onto him and were trying to fix it, but grr! I’ll definately have to check that out.

A muzzle wouldn’t hurt, either. He’s getting very grumpy in his old age. :slight_smile:

30

How are “seeing-eye dogs” trained to avoid running their owners into oncoming traffic, specifically at walk/don’t walk signs? I’ve seen dogs smart enough to look both ways before crossing the street, but how do they know to walk at a crosswalk at the proper time?

31

This is a hard one, to be honest. Owner-trained dogs are always a gamble. While a dog may be perfectly well behaved and a great pet, it may not have what it takes to take on the stress of being a public access service dog.

What you’re talking about doing is training your small dog to do medical alert work. This IS doable, but it’s hard to train. You need a helper who can recognize the symptoms and teach the dog to respond to the “aura”, as it were, before it happens. Truth is, this is an alert that is impossible to train - either the dog has it, or it doesn’t. This is what makes the difference between an alert dog (like a dog who can sense seizures before they happen) and a response dog (who sees the symptoms come on, like you do, and will retrieve medication, get help, or stand guard, or help guide you to a safe place).

It’s hard to train a response dog that is very small. It’s also hard to teach an older dog to do all this work, and do it well, especially if there are other dogs in the house. Most schools would require you to have no other dogs, as it often interferes with a dog’s ability to do its job.

The thing about service dogs is that your condition has to qualify as a disability, and the need for the dog has to be 24/7. It has to be task trained (i.e. performs specific TASKS you can’t perform yourself - with medical alert, usually they are tasks that are performed during a crisis).

There are self-training groups out there, if you know where to look for them. There are a couple of yahoo groups that cover OC training for helping dogs! Look them up! It IS doable. The thing about self training is that you have to ask yourself if it’s worth the 2 years of training time, and the possible heartbreak that it just doesn’t work out in the end…

32

Many seeing-eye-dog schools have mock city streets on their training grounds where dogs are introduced to lights and walk/don’t walk symbols. Some schools do teach the dogs to look up and recognize walk/don’t walk symbols, but not all are able to catch on. To be honest, most of them pay attention to traffic flow. They know how to recognize crosswalks, sidewalks (they always slow for a change in surface), and will know where to cross a street… then they’ll pause, watch traffic, and choose to cross when the traffic has stopped and traffic heading in the same direction has started to move.

It’s one of those things they learn almost by osmosis - repetition, daily, of the same routine - they learn to pay attention to the cues. Also helpful, nowadays, are the crossing signals that are accompanied by sound. A number of dogs pick up on that sound-signal, as does their handler!

33

Gentle Leaders are great, though some dogs have a hard time adjusting to them at first. But if you keep it fun and exciting and he gets to do something he likes (walkiiiiiies!) then he should put up with the insult. If you chose to get one, get one with a “snoot loop” - it helps keep the thing on. :slight_smile:

34

Why are small dogs harder to train?

35

Honestly, it depends on the breed. Most small dogs (terriers, toys) just don’t have the drive for work - they don’t have the work ethic, and don’t have the stamina and that undying will to please that, say, retrievers have. SOME little dogs have done VERY well in service work - one handler I know uses a papillon and it works great… but in her house she also has 3 others who she had to pull from training because they were not working out.

Small dogs are also at greater risk in public - they’re small and cuddly and people want to pet them, pick them up… or worse, people don’t see them and they get stepped on. It’s hard enough not to get your golden’s paws and tail run over by carts in the grocery store… can you imagine a small breed? You also end up facing more questions about the legitimacy of the working dog if it’s of a small size.

Remember that a service dog is meant to be a piece of medical equipment (in an odd sort of way). The dog shouldn’t be carried, even if it’s small. It needs to heel, stay by you, and all that fun stuff. It also needs to be quiet in public, and perfectly obedient. Otherwise, it can’t do its job.

Small dogs can be fun and “easy” to train to be awesome pets, trick dogs, agility dogs… all that fun stuff. Working dogs tend to have a different kind of temperament - one that sets them apart from others.

36

How do you become a trainer? Can you list a range on how much a job like this earns?

37

I don’t have any particular questions, but just wanted to mention an old thread of yours that’s one of my favorites in the whole history of the SDMB: Argh, die you evil gerbil-felching idiot!.

It’s the story of when you were training a working dog and bringing it into a shopping mall. As you did a woman and her son went absolutely bugfuck on the dog, who quietly sat and took it. The punchline, the thing that made it great, is that when the woman called the cops, they fined her $3,000 for interfering with a working dog.

38

I empathise with your health issues, I have AS and a bunch of autoimmune stuff which affects my life, and if I hadn’t gotten involved with my breed of choice just before it all got bad and the dx’s came, I would have an interest in a service dog. As it is, I have my little fluff butts, and they keep me very happy, truly they are my companions. I researched breeds and am happy with the choice I made.

Being “in dogs” I have a lot of people come to me for advice, which is great, when they take it. At the moment my daughter’s mother-in-law is driving me nuts, and maybe you can help me steer her in the right direction. I’ll try to keep this service dog oriented, but there are some home breeding issues involved.

My son-in-law (her son) developed a seizure disorder last August. It’s a congenital enlarged vessel in his left frontal lobe. He is on medication which is controlling the seizures, although he is not dealing well mentally/emotionally to having a disability.

His mother has two Shetland sheepdogs. The male is a sweet doofus, large, and she did have him neutered. She has a nice pet bitch, who she is determined to breed because she wants just one litter, and to keep just one puppy from this litter. (I know.) She also wants to retain one of the puppies and have it trained as a service /seizure detector dog for her son. (Again, I know.)

This in addition to the Pomeranian they have from me, along with Zoey, the psycho Miniature Pinscher, and three cats.

Mostly what I am asking for is help in directing her to information which may convince her this is a bad idea all around, as I have been able to only convince her to at least have her hips OFA’d and she goes up to be CERF’d later this month, and to insist on any potential stud having those medical certifications as well, along with a clean test for brucillosis, as well as a promise to have her bitch spayed after “just one litter”. She is a well intentioned soul, but this is just not a good idea in so many ways.

Also, I am not hearing from you anything which makes me think a sheltie would be a breed to even consider trying to train as a service dog, what are your thoughts on the breed for service work? Again, any direction to point her to for a better understanding in what is available for her son?

Thanks for opening the thread.

39

Question-what is an Australian shepherd?

What about adopting a retired guide dog as a pet-do they make better pets in general?

40

Training related but not about service dogs. I recently got a 2 yr old Amstaff from a rescue agency. His foster mom told me that one of the best ways to train him from jumping up on people or trying to take their shoes off is to say, “ Unh Uh” and squirt him with water from a spray bottle. Do you think that this is just as effective as training him to ‘sit and stay’ with a clicker? Or is there another training option that you would advise to eliminate the behavior?

She also suggested this dog might be a good candidate for CGC testing. Is there an advantage to passing this test, like not having your homeowners insurance cancelled? Or being allowed to bring your dog into a country that normally bans them? Sorry for the hijack but I really respect your advice about training dogs and wanted to take advantage of your checking back.

Even more off topic - ever seen the Dog Whisperer? I think they must do a lot of editing. I can’t believe how quickly he gets the dogs to behave. It almost seems like his answer for every problem is “Walk the dog!” Thanks for reading & hopefully responding.