Because, gentle reader, the clothes make the man. 
That is done only by straight white guys.
But I’m willing to bet you’ve oppressed others
If you think that gay people don’t watch “Sex in the City”
and “Friends,” I envy your innocence. And why do you say, "Fortunately, there is no gay counterpart to ‘The Sopranos’?"Sounds like somebody’s prejudices are coming out.
What do you have against Straight Black People With Jobs or
Gay White People With Jobs or Straight White Ex-Dotcommers Looking For A Job?
That’s true for everyone. The key phrase is when we can afford to.
Ditto
That’s true of most people. My boss (a straight, black woman) believes that, my project manager buddy ( straight, white, Jewish) believes it, so do I (gay, white male ).
It seems to me that you live in a parochial, closed environment where you’ve never heard anyone tell anti-gay or anti-black jokes, where senior management never promotes men over more qualified women, every child, regardless of color, gets a good education and lives in a safe, loving home. How lucky you are. I guess Rosa Parks might as well have moved to the back of the bus and Matthew Shephard’s death was just an accident.
As a SWME guy, I have many problems with some statements made by mssmith:
I know little about Montana, but it may be a nice place to live…
I thought you said you were married?
I’ve never seen ‘Sex in the City’ (the show), ‘Friends’ is so-so at best, but I love ‘Will and Grace’ - am I officially out of SWME?
Only? But who wouldn’t like to hang out with Michael Jordan even though he’s not working much lately…
Really? If you go to school and work you automatically get head? My wife better not hear about this since I just went back to school and I work…
goboy,
Where did this come from? I don’t think you’re being t&c here, and since smith was kiddin’ around, why the sudden attack?
That’s not an attack, that’s just being snide. Trust me, if I were to attack, msmith would know it. The tone of his post semed to suggest that a) only Straight White Guys With Jobs work hard for a good life and b)that trying to redress racism and discrimination are just “bitching and moaning.” I don’t think he has any idea of the income divide in this country.
Actually it was a bad choice of words. I should have said it’s opposite.
Dear Straight, White, Married, Employed Guy:
How did you manage to find a woman who was interested enough in you to marry you? I have a seriously difficult time just finding a date, now that I’m out of grad school.
OK, I’ll take a stab at the “what’s up with marriage?” questions.
I see marriage not only as a commitment between the two people, but also a commitment to the community and from the community. If there were only the two of you involved, any sort of ad hoc arrangements would be fine. If you don’t have a community–family, friends, neighbors–or if you don’t care about your community, then it really is unimportant.
Marriage is an explanation of our relationship to the rest of the world. And it is also a call for the community to recognize and support our relationship. At our wedding we used a Quaker tradition where we had a large wedding certificate and asked all the wedding guests to sign it.
I also think marriage can be a way of clarifying your relationship with each other. If you are living with someone and sharing finances, you ARE commited to each other whether you like it or not. Marriage provides legal protection for each partner in the event of dissolution of the relationship.
And of course, the primary reason to be married is if you plan on having kids. I just can’t understand why you would live with someone and have kids with them but not marry them. I mean, that’s what marriage IS. If you don’t want to have kids, if you’re not interested in family life, then there’s no big reason to be married, even if you really really love someone else.
It is precisely the fact that marriage is a legal state of affairs, with all sorts of consequences (including, potentially, a much messier break-up if things don’t work out), that turns some couples off to the idea of marriage.
And as far as kids go, the rights of so-called “illegitimate” children and their parents are identical to those of children born to married parents, except perhaps with regard to their rights to their father’s estate when he dies.
I agree with Lemur866, and I’ll add that having the community recognize your commitment to each other strengthens it. If it were as casual emotionally as saying “Hey, babe, guess we’re a couple, huh?” “Yeah, cool”, then it would be almost as casual an act to break it. Having the multitudes in the community provide the expectation that you’ll stay committed helps keep the relationship together.
It does seem to me that it’s way too easy, both legally and culturally, to get married, and way too hard to end a marriage. The commitment shouldn’t be considered without much better preparation and foresight than many couples give it; there is too little support for couples having trouble; and there are too many obstacles in the way to cleaning up the mess and moving on if it gets impossible.
Elvis: Yes, part of marriage is the community support for that marriage. The community strengthens the marriage and also holds the couple responsible for making things work.
Tracer: I disagree that marriage makes things “more complicated” if there is a breakup. By specifying the legal status of property it simplifies breakups. For instance, I have a friend who just broke up with his live-in boyfriend of 8 years. They were essentially married, but now that they have broken up we find that the house and property are in one person’s name, despite all the work they did together. If they had been married then my friend could have an easily enforced claim on the house…but he is essentially left with nothing unless he wants to file a lawsuit.
Marriage simplifies breakups if there are children and property involved.
Gotta disagree with you there, bub. I’m a SWMEG, and my wife and I have no intention of ever having kids. Did that affect our decision to get married, or does it reduce the validity of our marriage? Not one friggin’ bit. We figured if this was going to be a permanent relationship, we ought to demonstrate to the community and to ourselves the commitment we had to each other. Having children or not had nothing to do with it. We are no less a family than you are, no matter how many offspring you have.
You misunderstood. I have no problem with childless people getting married, I don’t have any kids myself. What I can’t understand are the people who live together, share finances and have kids together, and yet feel getting married is too much of a commitment.
What’s up with that?
(This is half-joking, half serious. I welcome all input.)
Dear Straight, White, Male, Employed guy:
As a fellow SWMEG, I find my life rather boring in
comparison to the lives of other “Ask the ____” people.
For instance, I’ve never had kinky sex with a person I
don’t know very well. And I can’t remember the last time
I was in bed with more than one other person. Also,
my fashion sense is abysmal. (I’m told, anyway - what’s
so wrong with flannels and jeans?) I don’t know any
hip movies or cool clubs to go to. The last movie I saw
was “Miss Congeniality”, and let me tell you it wasn’t
worth $7. The only place I’ve been drinking lately is the
corner bar.
To tell you the truth, the only reason I’m complaining
about all this is because I’m jealous. Please help me,
fellow SWMEG! How can I make my life as exciting and
interesting as the lives of the other “Ask the _____” people I keep reading about?
-Ben
ModernRonin2, when you find out, let me know too, willya?
Seriously, I’m not sure the people who post all the stuff you’ve referred to are necessarily happy about it. The kind of life we both have - secure, committed, “normal” - may be something they’d prefer, given the choice.
Oh, and tracer, sorry for not getting back to you earlier about “finding a woman” - I didn’t meet my wife until after college, either, and it came as a complete surprise to both of us. We met at random, not expecting or hoping for anything, and just clicked. Don’t worry too much about it, or you might actually turn off someone you might share a lot with. It’ll happen when you’re not expecting it, trust me.
You want to know why it sucks being a SWME? because when your kids are getting ready for college, you’re screwed. Sure, junior may have a 4.3 GPA, more activities than he can fit onto a college application, be a varsity athlete and be an award winning writer/artist, but it doesn’t matter for scholarships! Unless he’s a lesbian eskimo, an albino lefty, hell, ANYTHING other than an SWME to be, you’re paying for a LOT more of that college bill.
sorry, i’m just really frustrated…3 of the 5 schools i’m looking at give almost nothign but need based scholarships…my SWME elder has enough money to NOT qualify for need based, but not enough to foot the bill for the schools i want.
chris
(yes, i am aware this will seem very insensitive. I having nothing agaist those who qualify for need based scholarships. Several of my friends will. I’ve just worked my ass off for 5 years so i can get into any college i want, and now i’m findign out, i can’t pay for them. )
Elvis:
This is not a direct attack, nor a character-assassination attempt. But your OP did ask for any questions regarding the SWME group. So, here is one:
While among your own clan you may be having a ball, it seems your “interesting interactions” are generally based on unconscious passion for possessions, control, power and winning. From the outside, you are really a boring bunch. Why is your taste and outlook on life so mundane, monotonous and non-interesting to the the non-SWME people. I hope you do not believe that we are envious of your lifestyle, SUVs, big houses, boring vacation pictures/videos or empty and intellectually non-interesting conversations carried by most of you.
Please list the top 5 attributes of SWME individuals that would make them attractive enough to be invited to a lively and fun non-SWME party.
ElvisL1ves wrote:
What kind of place did this at-random meeting take place in? It just seems darn hard for me to find venues of any kind where there are both (A) women present, and (B) a relaxed enough social atmosphere that you can talk to 'em. (The workplace is definitely out.)
Okay, but I don’t have forever to wait. I ain’t no Spring chicken any more, y’know.
tracer:
If you want to find a wife, there are hundreds of outfits that cater to SMEs looking to add a W to their title. Try findlove@intouchdating.com
I believe neither this forum nor the OP were intended to help you find a wife. So, what are your 5 attributes?
OneCell? What are YOUR attributes that make you so special and fascinating to others? And how is it that you’re having so much more fun with your own chosen lifestyle that you’re spending Saturday night cruising Internet message boards? Where’s that “lively and fun non-SWME party” you mentioned?
You’re way off base with the materialism charge, btw. That’s one of the ugly stereotypes I complained of in the OP. Family, friends, and career accomplishments mean pretty much everything, not the SUV I don’t have or even want.
tracer, nothing special, we met at a party hosted by mutual friends, started talking, went out on another night, been together since. But we didn’t go the to party expecting anything but to have fun with friends.
The message is, don’t try too hard or you just give off emanations of patheticness. Anyone in the sex and orientation you’re looking for is going to be looking for a friend to hang out with first, with perhaps the possibility of that evolving into a romance later, NOT first for a sexual partner who might become a friend later on, get it?
well, my wife and i got married, not because we planned to have kids [we don’t], not to demonstrate to a community that we had commitment [i knew within a few days of meeting her that i wanted to be with her forever. a piece of paper was not going to change that.], but because the united states government told us we had to if we were going to stay together. [ie, they refused–four times–to grant her any visa of any kind until we had a marriage certificate. they told us so in more-or-less those words.]
ain’t it great to be free??