D&C can be done for diagnostic purposes as a kind of biopsy although this is less common now. It may also be done after a miscarriage, as part of treatment for a molar pregnancy, or as treatment for postpartum hemmorrhage due to retained products of conception.
A clump of cells. No more, no less. To me a fetus is not a baby.
Now if you’re going to ask me when I think it becomes one, I’m going to cop right out and say ‘at birth’. Does this mean I think third trimester babies should be aborted willy-nilly? Of course not. However, I am tired and ill of women being forced to have babies when they don’t want to anymore.
Krokodil, I didn’t get a choice of procedures. When I think back, I think it was mainly because I was so early and D&C was the best alternative. I didn’t have a catheter, thankfully (I’ve had to have that for a totally different problem, when I was 8 or 9 and it SUCKED) and I gathered if I was further along there might have been alternatives.
I think the lack of anesthesia was because of the cost…I remember having Lazy Eye Surgery at age 10 and my mother trying to convince me to go for local because general ramped up the price so much. No anesthesia or some Advil is far cheaper!
Adoptomom - not a hijack at all. And thank you for posting. I admire you for adopting, always have.
I had a D&C when I had never been pregnant. When I went off the BC pills because I was ready to start a family, I did not menstruate for about 3+ months, and felt absolutely awful. Then I started bleeding every other week. I don’t recall what the actual diagnosis was (if I ever knew I have forgotten). I was wondering if it was a miscarriage or some early pregnancy-related problem, but my doctor told me that I was not, and never had been, pregnant. Presumably there was some way he could tell from my exam. After the D&C I was still extremely irregular, but then I had been before I started on the BC pills also. FWIW, I had to resort to a a drug – I think it was called clomid – in order to stimulate ovulation in order to conceive.
I really appreciate this thread, the post if sprang from, and the other thread where folks are talking about PP and what it really is and isn’t. All wonderful information IMHO. There’s a clinic across the street from me and fairly often there are protesters . I support free speech but those posters of fetuses are as offensive as hell. I think if you’re going to take the step of protesting and accusing someone of anything you find morally unacceptable you have a moral responsibility to check it out for yourself and know the details. A friend of mine was arrested because he was so offended by the posters as he drove by with his wife and kids that he stopped, got out and started destroying the posters.
I’ve never confronted them but I’ve thought about it several times. I’d like to know how many protesters have helped an unwed mother, or adopted a child, or done anything to offer viable alternatives.
Aside form my rambling. Thanks again. Great thread.
Anaamika, I have no questions for you on this topic, for reasons you are quite aware of. I just came in to say that, though I always think you rock, with this particular thread you are freaking Gibraltar.
Please let me be another to sincerely thank you for opening up about your experiences. It may be that abortion is stigmatized to such an extent that it is hard to have a rational, objective discussion on this topic, so I commend you for bringing this issue up in such a straightforward manner, and in a way that encourages others to share their experiences in an equally open way. Thanks.
I guess that’s pretty wordy - but I just wanted to say thanks for sharing.
Guy here, in a country where abortions are, thankfully, no longer much of a fuss… yet I know from hearing and reading what the situation is like in th US. So I would just like to say – I think it’s a brave and admirable act by you to stand up for the silent multitude of women who have had their lives made better – nay, possibly saved – by having the CHOICE. Thank you.
I have a general question about availability. Do many/most OBGYN do abortions? What options are there other than PP? What would one look for in the phone book (I’m guessing not “abortion providers”).
Anaamika, thanks for starting this thread. I often wonder if people who rail against abortion realize how many women that they know, like, and respect have had one. If more of us were so open about it, I think it would make a huge difference in the tone of the discussion. It’s a whole lot harder to imagine that we’re all callous baby-killing monsters when you learn that one of us is your sister.
I’m sorry your experience was so physically painful. I’ve had two abortions, and while I don’t remember the actual procedure being painful in either instance, I was in agony (barely able to walk to the car, spent two days in bed curled into a fetal position) after the first. After the second, which I did with twilight, I was up and around an hour later, with no problems. Same clinic (PP, incidentally), and I was actually farther along with the second pregnancy, which was a huge surprise to me, since I’d had my tubes tied after the first. It just goes to show that every experience is different, even for the same woman in a relatively short span of time.
Actually I was not going to ask you that, but if you said that that ‘thing’ that you got rid of was your child I would have some more questions, as I see that as the uttimate ‘pro-choice’ stance.
(bolding mine)
Eek. What a nasty surprise.
As for the rest of it, I learned over the years that some of the most vocal against abortion are those who have had it themselves, when younger. And they very much will have an attitude of “It was a mistake on my part but on your part, it’s a sin.”
On the other hand, sometimes it does drive it home when suddenly it happens to you, or your sister, or whatever. It’s a choice most women have to make at some point in their lives. Many times it’s unconscious, or the choice is made well before they got pregnant. But too many times women end up choosing in that limited three months.
I just want women to think about it before they get pregnant. Every sexually active and reproductively capable woman should have some idea of what they will do if they get pregnant before they get pregnant. We’re supposed to take folic acid, aren’t we? Those three months in which it is easiest to abort or even the six months are not always the right time to make such an earth-shattering decision.
Renee, I have no idea and I’ll have to let someone else field that question. I’ve never tried to find out about anyone else doing it, since PP is pretty accepted around here and doesn’t show much signs of going away. The surrounding areas are somewhat pro-life but Albany itself is VERY pro-choice and seems to be staying that way.
I’m glad this thread is helping people. I hope it’s helping someone who’s not posting, too, and just lurking. Just get the information and don’t let people bully you into a choice that may not be good for you.
Hear! Hear!
I’d add, though, that in my ideal world, every (straight or bi) sexually active woman not only thinks about what she’ll do if she gets pregnant, but she discusses that with the man who’d be responsible for impregnating her. Does that cut down on spontaneity? No doubt, but what do you expect from someone who’s a bit of a prude? On the other hand, the time to find out you disagree strongly on abortion is not when you’re already pregnant and trying to figure out what to do about it.
Anaamika, thanks for starting this thread. This thread has just increased my admiration for you.
If you knew nothing of birth control, condoms, adoption or family planning, how did you know about abortions?
I’ve known two women who did both - had a child that was placed for adoption and had an abortion.
Both said that the abortion was easier, provided closure, was less tramatic, and was something they had no regrets about.
Both said that the adoption was more difficult, that they always questioned the decision, that it was still traumatic years later, and they regretted doing it.
I think open adoptions probably make this easier on birthmoms, at least some questions are answered - these women both had babies and abortions before open adoption was available (at at least one of them when abortion was illegal - the second woman was young enough that I think her abortion would have been legal).
Whenever I hear someone say “you can ‘just’ put the baby up for adoption” I think about these two women. It isn’t a ‘just’ thing…its a big deal and a huge sacrifice - and one that can haunt a woman just as certainly as abortion can.
I didn’t mean to imply I knew nothing about them, although it’s possible I did imply it. It’s hard to explain.
When I started having sex, sure I knew that there was a chance I could get pregnant. But it’s different when it comes down to yourself and actually start thinking about the ramifications of your actions. It’s always “it couldn’t happen to me” and, like I said, I did learn awfully fast and started using condoms very soon. I just had extraordinarily bad luck and caught the first time.
Sex was a great mystery to most of us that were raised in the Indian community. You have to back it up a little and realize that even though I was growing up in NY, I was almost exclusively raised around Indians. I was not allowed to bring any non-Indian friends home. I was only allowed to have Indian, female friends. I was not allowed to receive phone calls from boys, Indian or otherwise. If an Indian adult saw me, say in the mall, talking to a boy, they would call my parents and report on me. It’s happened many a time.
Only one of my Indian girlfriends had ever had a boyfriend. Her parents were fairly progressive. But her and I weren’t close, and I was having my own horrible crises at home, stemming from my discovery of my adoption and the resulting backlash. So I had two personas - the super-happy friendly one I presented to the world, and the troubled one at home. As soon as my mother found out that I knew I was born out of wedlock (remember, she is my adopted mother) both parents assumed I was going to follow my real mother’s footsteps right away. Their attitude was “don’t ever mention sex to her and then she won’t do it.” They came down on me like a ton of bricks and watched my every action. They - and I - are lucky I didn’t rebel in a more meaningful way.
I was also taught never to air any dirty laundry. The adoption was a great big dirty secret to them, and they told me time and time again “you’re only our duty”, “you don’t deserve to be happy, all the pain you caused by being born.” There is no doubt in my mind my parents were emotional abusers from when I was 14 to when I moved out. I had no self-esteem and little value for myself.
All these things combined meant I never had a real significant conversation with anyone. I didn’t have really close friends. I didn’t have the right kinds of friends to ever discuss this with.
Then, my first two years of college I was not allowed to go away from home. I had to commute.
I tell you all this so you can get some idea of how insular my life was, even living in the wonderful U.S. So you know how little real interaction I had with anybody outside my family. I had a pediatrician until I was 18, and was not allowed to go to the doctor alone. My mother would sit in the room with me while I had my checkups. I asked her once if I could go alone and she yelled at me, asking me what I wanted to hide.
In September of '95 I went away to college for the first time, for my second two years. I met him right away, and we were in love fast and had sex soon after. But for the first time in my life I was actually living away from the influence of my family. I was still sharing with Indian roomates - both of whom were complete virgins, and one of whom already had a marriage arranged for her - but at the same time I was meeting all kinds of new people. And these people were not shy talking about sex or the possible results.
I learned as fast as I could but it wasn’t fast enough. By the end of September I was using condoms but sometime in the middle of September it had already happened. The college nurses were totally different than anything in high school. I had never been to the medical center in my old college, so I didn’t know what they were like. These came right out and asked me if I was sexually active, and gave me brochures and information about condoms/STDs/alternatives if I did get pregnant.
Real, useful information about birth control came to me right around the same time I started having sex! And let me say another thing - I had promised myself years earlier that I would wait until I was 20 to begin having sex. (I was 19 and 10 months). Imagine if I had started earlier (though finding an opportunity would have been well-nigh impossible).
So I’m firmly of the belief that parents should start talking to their kids about sex very early. And should really introduce birth control thoughts as well as STDs and pregnancy in early teens, if not earlier. I even feel perhaps alternatives should be provided - I wonder how many girls might not be so susceptible to guys’ advances if they already had vibrators, and were taught from an early age to understand their sexuality and be friends with it, and not be frightened of it.
I hope that answered your question. As you can see, it’s not an easy question, nor an easy answer.
Another point about adoption. I was adopted and it was a great big dirty secret and still is to most people in the family. What the everlovin’ fuck. That means in any kids mind that THEY are the great big dirty secret. Open adoptions are the way. Adoption causes tons and tons of questions for the kid, and the best thing IMO is for them to know their mom loved them so much she gave them to someone who could care for them better - not that their mom threw them away because it was sinfully bad for her reputation in society, as happened to me.
::::standing ovation:::::
My heart breaks for you that you weren’t better informed about your sexuality, nor are you cherished for the gift and blessing you are to your biological and adoptive parents.
Although my southern, middle aged self is about as far removed from the Indian culture as possible, if you ever need a surrogate mother, please don’t hesitate to email me.
Peace and admiration!
I want to add my heartfelt thanks, Anaamika, for starting this thread, and for your courage and candor in responding to the questions posted. I’m personally convinced that abortion in America must forever be, in Bill Clinton’s phrase, “safe, legal and rare.” I was talking to my sister once about abortion and mentioned offhandedly that, although I was pro-choice, I didn’t personally know anyone who’d had an abortion. She stared at me for a moment and then said, “Of course you do. They just haven’t told you.”
And I’m sure she was right.
My mistake – I inferred they were from post #6.
I don’t remember where I read this statistic, but it stated that 1 out of 4 women in the United States has had an abortion. Those numbers stunned me and really made me take a good look everywhere I went. If those statistics are true, in my small little office that makes five of us. Wow, just wow.
You may be confusing Anaamika (whose parents are prudish and Indian) with Anne Neville (whose parents are prudish and not Indian, proving only that prudishness is not limited to Indians).
Or pehaps I’m confused.