I could have quoted a number of posters in this thread and said me too. I’m pissed at GWB for 1. Spending our ass off. 2. The handling of the illegal immigration problem and 3. Making the SDMB a subscription message board. Wait a minute… 
Still not mad enough to vote for Kerry.
When’s that libertarian party going to pick up some steam?
Well, you may not agree that I’m a “less-than-rabidly-conservative conservative,” but I agree with the sentiment. Bush is definitely leading the party in the wrong direction on several fronts. However, you’ll probably be less than pleased with the direction my sentiments are pushing me; it ain’t to the left. I’m more convinced than ever that a more libertarian ideology is the answer. So, buck up Libertarian, there’s hope of some small gains.
Pobably never. There does not seem to be a lot of support for not meddling in people’s lives just disagreements about what part to meddle with.
Though I have never officially registered as a Republican (always been ‘undecided’), I am a hardcore small “c” conservative (classical liberal).
Bush has been an embarrassment. Not just to the country, but on a much smaller scale, to me. I am a proponent of giving the benefit of the doubt to ANY president, especially in the face of what I think of as thoughtless and predicitable cynical “all politicians are scum”-type political thought- which I seem to encounter more and more. As such, I defended Bush plenty of times. Not blindly and not across the boards, but at least with a wait-and-see attitude. His decision to go to war didn’t and doesn’t faze me in the slightest. Iraq should have been dealt with years ago, and the UN certainly wasn’t interested in enforcing any resolutions it passed. I’m OK with the idea of preventative war, though ideally our military should be responsible for our own borders first. But the lies, the ties with the corporations who would benefit the most, the simplistic Bad-Bad-Man Doctrine… well it sucks when the knee-jerk cynics (I’m not putting down cynicism, just those with the “it doesn’t matter who you vote for”, or “all Reublicans are evil” mindsets) are right. Makes drinking night a little tougher.
The Bush administration has sold out it’s so-called conservative beliefs time and time again.
If you want to have a preventative war, JUST SAY SO. Don’t speak of good and evil like we’re little kids who can’t handle the truth. And quit changing the reasons for initiating the war! Imminent threats, WMDs —> very bad man, “freedom” for Iragis
Don’t fuck with the Constitution! Why in the world a Conservative (note the large “C”) who supposedly espouses States’ rights and smaller government feels the need to change or ignore the Constitution makes no sense to me
Please. For the love of your own God- sever ties with the “moral-majority”: right wing fundie bigots
Granting temporary amnesty to “undocumented aliens”? Do we even HAVE a notion of country anymore? Why do these people get to cut in line? What motivation is there for people to follow the legal channels of immigration anymore?
The Patriot Act. Enough on that.
The resurrection of voodoo economics. Hey- I think tax cuts are a great idea. But they should come about hand in hand with DECREASED spending! Must be the new math.
The FCC. Seems they found the right environment to flourish in. That environment is one without the Bill of Rights, it seems.
The complete lack of a sense of stewardship for our country’s natural resources.
I’m getting myself all pissed off again. He’s actually managed to sell out the whole spectrum of political beliefs in his short time in office.
And the worst part for me is, I believe strongly in voting, and I don’t give my vote to just anyone. So, this election, my choices boil down to: vote a third party with no sense of reality or implementation (Libertarian), or stay at home. Lose-Lose.
Gah.
Actually, people like you are exactly who the party needs. People with common sense to augment the intellect.
I recently looked up Contract with America. I can see Bush supporting MAYBE 4 of the items on the list. When it comes to big government/civil rights/staying out of other nations, Bush’s far more liberal than Bill Clinton in my book.
However when it comes to civil rights and spending, the Democrats have moved ahead of Bush. As abhorrent the $540b Medicare bill is, I think the Democrat-supported bill was $800b. So, what can a person who likes small government and civil rights do?
Before you point out that Democrats love civil rights… I consider my right to own a gun, to smoke & drink whatever I want, to spend my money however I want, to go without a national health ID, etc., at least as important as my right to have an abortion. Both parties hate civil rights equally. It’s just that the Republicans hate them out of religious reasons and the Democrats hate them because “it’s for your own good”.
And I hate big business, so I’m not suited for the libertarian party either. shrug
Still on the fence for 2004, but I definitely won’t be for Kerry.
I really wish that America had a form of proportional representation. This would be great because it would sever bigger parties into smaller constituents. We’d probably have a bigger libertarian party, a fundie-republican party, a soccer-mom conservative group. And the democrats would be split, but I am not sure how. Then if need be, the Libertarians could partner with the left side when they wanted to and then the right on other issues. I like the way this works. But as it is now, the Greens are trapped in the D party and the Libertarians are trapped in the R or are putting up protest votes.
I would be thrilled.
While you’re here, Libertarian, could you please help me out? I self-identify as libertarian, the problem being that every site I’ve searched to see what their platforms are and what their candidates believe, I’ve seen a disturbing lack of implementation set forth. So far, it’s pure political philosophy. That only goes so far- what I need to see, and what would help the party immensely, IMO, is an actual plan to implement these ideas. Obviously, waking up tomorrow and repealing taxes, etc. just wouldn’t work. So what’s the plan?
I’d really appreciate the help here. The two party system just doesn’t do it for me, and I’d like to continue to take my voting seriously.
Thanks in advance,
j
Smoke
The LP candidate endorses the LP platform, so here’s that for you to review:
http://www.lp.org/issues/platform/
Here is their discussion of issues and implementation recommendations:
Here is a platform comparison quiz to assist you in determining what party you might like best (do the long version):
http://www.lp.org/issues/platform/compare/
And here is the homepage:
I hope you find what you’re looking for.
Story of our damn life, Lib.
Count me as a reliable libertarian voter who’s going to go for Kerry simply because of how alarming GWB is to me. I’m at the ‘anything has to be better’ stage.
Really, I could be pretty content in the Republican camp if these core values were actually supported:
Fiscal discipline. Deficits are bad except in times of extreme duress and should be avoided. A major priority should be the retiring of the debt.
Civil liberties. The government has no role is moderating the lifestyles of the citizenry outside of insuring that people stay within reasonable laws and avoid harming others.
Just those two. If they could pull off those TWO I could go with it. But I don’t see it happening.
My mother. Sixty-three years old, has never voted for a Democrat in her life. Alongside my father she ran the precinct we were part of for seventeen years. He was the precinct judge and she helped handle the Republican table for voter check in. I can’t count the number of times we went down to pick up the voting equipment and set it all up and then pack it all up at the end of the election. Dad was the representative of our district in the RNC a couple times, and they don’t give that job to just anybody. He’d take one of his sons with him and we’d be pages during the convention running messages back and forth between party bigwigs. We’ve been personal guests of Republican Senators and Representatives at various functions for decades(Phil Grahm makes a mean BBQ).
My mother will not vote for George W. Bush. She didn’t in 2000, she withheld her vote. This time she plans to vote against him.
Enjoy,
Steven
This may sound like cynical politicking, but I promise it’s not. If anything, it’s my idealist streak coming out.
Back in 1996 and 2000, I and many other progressives felt like the Democratic party was abandoning us, was going more and more for traditionally Republican positions. We protested this by denying them our votes, by giving our votes instead to Ralph Nader.
Although I think it’s far too simplistic to claim that our actions cost Gore the election (Green votes were only one among many reasons for Gore’s failure), the message still got across to the Dems: ignore progressives at your peril.
Kerry is a lot more progressive that Gore or Clinton, and he’s willing to stand up to Gingrich-style Republicans, willing to differentiate himself from them.
This might be the year for Libertarian-style Republicans to tell the party that their votes can’t be taken for granted. You might end up with a Democrat in power for four years, but if your party hears what you tell them, you’ll all be the better for it.
Daniel
Obviously easier said than done, Jonathan, but I totally agree with you. I could concede to continue voting Republican, but the direction the party’s taken is just so… schizophrenic I guess.
Thanks for the info, ** Lib**. I’m gonna spend the weekend disgesting it. I seem to be all over the place though- the test showed that I lined up with the Greens and the Libertarians almost evenly.
Would it be OK if I emailed you at some point in the future to discuss this stuff further?
I’m just fed up with the whole John Asshat thing that pervades the Bush administration. Like Jonathan, whatever party will simply leave both my wallet and my zipper alone is okay by me. Frankly, I like Merkwurdigliebe’s idea.
I’m confident that we can arrange either that or some mutually amenable alternative.
In what sense was Nelson Rockefeller a paleoconservative, or a conservative at all, for that matter? Admittedly, he said
“In matters of human concern, I am a liberal. In matters of economic and fiscal concern, I am a conservative.”
but he and his followers were pretty definately liberal Republicans.
The Pubbies are the victims of thier own sucess. And seduced by political pragmatism.
Remember Nixon and the “Southern Strategy”? Now, I don’t buy it as a direct appeal to racism, just to make that clear. It was more an appeal to the “things is changin’ just too darn fast” sentiment, and that is a legitimate conservative view. But those who implemented that strategy had to know that is was a Devil’s bargain, they had to know they would be appealing to those persons who resented legitimate social change. But the pursuit of power does not favor the idealists, as we of the left have been woefully aware these many years.
As well, this opened the door to seduction by the bible-thumpers. These are highly motivated people, people who can be relied upon to vote and vote hard. But they have a very narrow agenda, and must be pandered to. No, they won’t vote for anybody else, but they won’t vote at all unless the Pubbies make some sort of display of solidarity. Thus, GeeDubya is at great pains to publicly display his God-fearin’ anti-homo agenda, but he can’t get a constitutional amendment and knows it. But he can get thier votes, he can terrify them (Did you know that Kerry has a plan to force Eagle Scouts into gay marriages?)
And then of course, business. The Pubbies have always favored business. Again, not a position I share, but with some rational legitimacy. Arguments can be made, compromises arrived at. And this grants an enormous advantage in fund raising. But business men are not idealist, they expect bang for thier buck. And they have become discontent with minor tax code shenanigans, they are envious of thier fellows. If the pharmacuetical industry can write itself a monopoly on medicare money, why should energy put up with tiresome restrictions at all. Whats more important here, making money or breathing?
By this procedure, the pandering to business has become too blatant, the whoring too public. We know our leaders are fellating the rich for campaign money, but we simply don’t want to see it in Macy’s window at high noon!
What the Pubbies need, and, by extension, what the country needs, is a resurgence of the principled right, the Goldwaters, not the Atwaters. They have forgotten what they were seeking power for, and now seek it for its own sake. If you guys stand for something, then, dammit! - stand for it! If you stand for change at a deliberate, well-reasoned pace, excellent! Such input is needed and welcome.
But as it stands now your constituency is the rich, the ignorant and the easily misled. And that isn’t our fault, its yours. Oh, and lest I forget…would you mind terribly not draping the flag over the corpses every time you fuck up? Its my flag too, you know.
(Note to Mtg - your line about Phil Gramm making “a mean barbecue” brought a chuckle to my wizened heart, with imagery of a spit and an apple. Not what you intended, of course, but I’m nonetheless grateful!)
Without resorting to cheap shots or slurs or the typical things expected in the Pit (or of certain people), I’ll post to say that I, an arch-conservative, renounce the GOP and will not refer to myself as “Republican” ever again, barring some huge leadership revolution. Actually, I sorta did so last year. This does not mean that my preferred candidates for Senate and House are not Republican, however.
I won’t vote for Bush, and could never be convinced to do so. I don’t hate or fear the man, but I believe he cannot fulfill the role of dignified intelligent rational leadership required by the Office. Nor do I feel Kerry can, but this isn’t about him.
Not that anyone here even remembers (let alone gives a fuck) who I am or was, but since this is a poll thread, why not.
Damn, girl. I remember you.