as I pointed out, however, what w/the demographics on the board, it is indeed more likely that a conservative would be pitted, vs. a liberal, even w/o the specifics of people’s own poor behavior.
Other issue - my own suspicion is that OP’ers (those who frequently start threads) are more likely to be pitted (especially when we’re talking political type/GD type threads) vs. those who merely respond.
My recollection re: december/WIldest Bill pittings is that they typically get pitted WRT a thread they started vs. one they respond to.
I could be wrong, though.
However, if correct, then there’s the other shoe dropping on why december gets pitted - he starts a lot of threads.
[whiney voice on] but moooooooooo-ooooom, he started it![whiney voice off]
Well, december does seem to spend an inordinate amount of time reposting horror stories from conservative blogs. I can almost guarantee if I see an anti-semitism story on andrewsullivan.com, I’ll see a december thread on the same thing in GD. Tiresome really. If he could break his habit of starting threads all the time he’d do much better. But I really don’t see that his offenses rise to the level of banning. Yes, he posts mistaken stuff, but it almost always seems to be that the mistake was on the part of some blogster. If he would only wait a few days, or research the story on his own he might avoid at least half the pittings he gets.
The thing is, people Syclla and Shodan and others bash liberals all the time. But the difference is that they do it based on facts and arguments, and they do it to specific liberals, not to “liberals.”
In fact, both of those posters can get much more personally nasty and vituperative than december has ever been. December may, unlike them, use tactics that drive people nuts, but they drive people nuts precisely because they are so coyly presented, even charming. And then there’s the poems.
There are plenty of times for which I would agree that decemember has flirted with a certain verboten BB behavior. But… there’s always someone on the margins of the continuum, and I think he’s managed to stay mostly on the right side of the margin. Maybe not. But the mods don’t seem to have a problem with what he does, and I’m not going to presume on their judgements of board standards, especially since mine would be much much less stringent than their’s appear to be. If december is doing or saying things that are silly, then it’s a good chance to practice pointing these things out in a calm, rational manner: not to get overly worked up about them. Half the reason for many of these threads seems to be to get people so worked up: encourage their hyperbole, encourage them to forgo research and be sloppy… all so that they’ll say something silly that can be jumped upon.
One – He’s a self-confessed racist (other lives are not worth as much as Jewish lives), the recent thread about French school girls was intentionally designed to incite race hate (a criminal offence, AFAIK), the title and content of innumerable OP’s are plain lies, others misrepresent with the intention of misleading; racist, race-hate inciter, liar and misrepresentor of facts.- I don’t see liberals defecating all over this board – the purpose of which is still, apparently, to fight ignorance - in quite the same manner.
Two – Of course the reason he’s not banned is because the balance between Moderators (active in voicing opinions on the matter of banning) is skewered to the conservative right. In addition, the factor not yet mentioned is Admin ** C K Dexter Haven** who, on the issue of Israel, doesn’t seem to be far behind december in the emotional, rather than rational, stakes.
On a personal note, I think december is an intellectual embarrassment – not only to the causes he seeks to promote directly or indirectly, but to this message board as well. But, also, he’s become so laughable he undermines all he seeks to do – in this I admire those who continue to counter his OP’s with informed and rational argument (a special nod to Kimstu) – that I think he better serves the moderate cause, and informed debate, by continuing to post.
The one shame, IMHO, is that the truly outstanding job done by moderators (of all political persuasions ) in providing us with an excellent environment is undermined by this one individual – I do mean that, though I will concede it has a certain touch-yer-toes-and-think-of-England quality.
Speaking from my known political standing, on the conservative wing of the extreme left, I simply must ask Messers Scylla and Shodan as to their opinion regarding thier perception of a distinct liberal bent on SDMB.
One has to wonder why? Why should this be so? Why should a collective forum that values intelligence, facts, and rules of evidence have a distinct liberal “bent”?
I find the obvious answer entirely satisfactory. No doubt the aforementioned Stalwarts of the Usual Suspects have an alternative explanation. Which would be what, exactly? Why should it be that out of a random sampling of 1000 incurable smart-asses, 700 should be liberal?
As to december: He doesn’t bug me that much, his thread-titling spin-control is an ongoing wonder. He posts occasional doggerel, which he sincerely believes are “limericks”, which flow with the ease and metric grace of a kangaroo having some kind of seizure.
But sometimes he inspires some of you ungrateful wretches to your best work, when you get the bit in yer teeth and nail his argument to the wall. In a way, perversely, this is a form of inspiration, like a passive-aggressive epiphany.
So what the heck. His name is always right there, one can always pick up ones little basket and skip along. Like most Texans, I am the very model of genteel acceptance.
[sub]not like that sniveling Matlock wannabe, Minty[/sub]
I’ve actually defended december on more than a few occasions, and on those occasions I feel I was right to defend him.
Not this time. That thread was rather obvious trolling. It was ridiculously obvious trolling, actually, and it’s a waste of electrons.
Having said that, I categorically reject all this bullshit about how the SDMB is biased to the left or the right. Christ, we’re pitting a partisan jerk, and you guys are descending into partisan jerkdom. SHUT UP ALREADY.
I am one of those liberals who tries to take december’s “debates” at face value. However, it’s getting frustrating. For me it’s not the topics, it’s not liberal bashing, it’s not even the refusal to look at links. What drives me nuts about december is his complete lack of willingness to debate.
Take the Why didn’t Clinton end the “drug patent scam”? thread for example. december proposes a premise. I among others debate the premise, and december’s only response is essentially “quit picking on Reagan”. If I’m going to go through the trouble of looking stuff up for december, the least he can do is acknowledged the effort that other dopers are making in debating.
I cringe as much, probably a little more, then the conservatives do as some of our more prolific liberal posters. However, I really haven’t seen the aforementioned pattern show up from even our most rabid liberal. They at least attempt to make a debate out of a debate topic they’ve posted.
However, the bottom line is, I generally like the guy. I agree that one of the reasons he pitted so often (not this time in particular) is that the Pit is where all of the cool kids hang out. Pitting december is a slam dunk. It’s a sure fire way to get lots of posts to your OP. It’s a way to get noticed.
It boggles my mind how long he has gone on spewing provably wrong or at the very least unsubstantiated, partisan bullshit.
One time, he claimed that the Cuban Government supported child prostitution. He neglected to back up his claim with any evidence, yet failed to retract the claim.
Rick at least for my part, I’m not claiming ‘bias’ one way or the other. I do believe that of those folks posting here (or at least those who post in politically themed threads), there seems to be numerically more of the general liberal bent than of the general conservative bent.
(London - tho Dex would be conservative, there’s also Lynn, Tuba, Gaudere all admins, and of those, I don’t recall any indication of what I’d consider conservative bent, so I don’t agree w/your assesment there. )
My computer has a mouse, which allows me to scoll past threads I don’t wish to read. It never occurred to me to stop at each of them and post that I didn’t want to read it.
E72521, I am now retired, having been terminated as part of a corporate re-structuring. (It’s not impossible that my time on this message board contributed to my selection for the honor of termination – a warning for those of you with day jobs.) I am married with 2 daughters and a grandson. My kides are long since outs kids in college. I love to spend time with my children,but they live on the other coast. My whole family are liberals. I certainly appreciate your kind words, “He’s a gifted writer and could make a killing investing his time and energy working for the right wing press.”
minty green – 17 Pit posts. I had no idea. That calls for a poem.
To be the Board’s most Pitted member
Is quite an exploit for december.
…Although in The Pit
…You call me a twit,
I’m glad that at least you remember.
Mtgman, I demonstrated Arafat’s embezzlement with a cite quoting three separate individuals. I grant you that none of the sources was as solid as they might have been. You’re free to make that point, and it’s a valid one. OTOH Arafat doesn’t make his finances public, so any information about them is necessarily somewhat speculative. I don’t see where linking to a cite based on unnamed sources deserves Pitting.
BTW, you still owe me an answer as to how you defined “hard evidence,” when you said there was no “hard evidence” that Saddam had WMDs.
** Lemur866**, it is true that I do repost a lot from conservative blogs. However, the thread in question was a repost from a liberal blog.
London_Calling, I started a thread complaining that a mob of French schoolgirls decided to beat the shit out of two or three other French schoolgirls who were visiting from a Jewish school. One Jewish girl was beaten so badly that she chose to leave the country for her schooling. So, you seem to be saying that when a mob beats up three Jewish school girls, that’s not racism. When I complain about it, *that’s[i/] racism. I sure hope I misunderstood your comment.
If I admit to being more concerned about the welfare of Jews, that’s being honest. Most people care more about those with whom they have some sort of kinship. That’s why there are current Pit threads about trivia like purple posts and about Walmart not selling racy magazines, rather than slavery in Sudan and genocide in Zimbabwe.
So let me ask you a serious question. Is this really what you made of my posts?
Mojo seemed to understand just fine.
I’d like to know, because I generally consider you intelligent and think about you as somebody who demonstrates good faith. Do I need to reevaluate either of those?
elucidator:
For the same reason that there are more students in a class than teachers.
New heights of inanity for december? Piffle. It’s the same old inanity, except that it’s really pushed Collounsbury’s buttons this time.
Of course that’s what december does best (riling liberals in general). He has a lot of fun with it, and there are benefits to the other side, as elucidator so eloquently stated: “But sometimes he inspires some of you ungrateful wretches to your best work, when you get the bit in yer teeth and nail his argument to the wall. In a way, perversely, this is a form of inspiration, like a passive-aggressive epiphany.”
Some of his postings help me organize my thinking, including on those issues where I occasionally find myself in agreement with him, whereupon I can wonder if I’ve gone wrong somewhere and need to reexamine my beliefs.
His stuff has its uses (witness the times where defensible right-wing positions are expressed so badly as to render them readily clobberable, to the wincing of the board’s conservatives).
And as long as we are handing out kudos, let’s not overlook London_Calling, who in this thread has posted one of the all-time outstanding Pot. Kettle. Black.'s of all time.
Yeah, 'cept in this case I’d hardly call the pitter, Collounsbury, a liberal. At least not in a traditional American sense. By my estimation, a moderate conservative economically, pretty moderate foreign policy-wise ( he’s ragged on the administration, but also spared a word or two of praise for them during the early Afghanistan situation, and I’ve never seen him praise democrats particularly for their foreign policy acumen, either ), probably a social libertarian ( very little evidence one way or another, but he strikes me as a “whatever floats your boat” sort ). If being open ( not partisanly pro- ) to Arab points of view were a liberal trait, every ( non-social conservative ) Republican’s favorite humorist, P.J. O’Rourke, would be on the liberal list as well.
Nah, RickJay nailed it. This one was just dumb.
Do liberal get more breaks on this board? It’s conceivable, by the numbers anyway, as wring indicated. Though I would agree with mtgman that the most extreme chumpsky-types do get smacked down a fair bit. But really, that’s besides the point - even if true it doesn’t mean december didn’t deserve his little trip this time.
If everybody else got probation for stealing a car and you got three years, it might be unfair, but it wouldn’t mean you didn’t deserve the three years.
1 - Like Chumpsky, he simply ignores those points he doesn’t want to refute.
2 - Unlike Chumpsky, he doesn’t plagiarize, AFAIK.
3 - He goes beyond Chumpsky in this way: blatantly distorting the responses of the people who choose to debate him, part of which he accomplishes by number one above.
He’s useful in this way: if you want to know what the aliterate beer-soaked boys are saying to each other in the bars at one in the morning when they’ve no chance at picking anyone up anymore, just read december. Much in the way that if you wanted to know what the ahistorical Marxists on campus are saying to each other between anti-globalization demos, you’d keep Chumpsky around. Chumpsky got old far faster than december, because december’s older & more polished, and of course he doesn’t plagiarize, so he can keep the act up longer. But it’s just an act. There’s far less to him than meets the eye.
Scylla, I’d like to suggest an alternate hypothesis as to why december gets pitted so much. He starts more threads than probably anyone else on the board. They’re generally always in GD or the Pit, political in nature, and related in some way to the liberal vs. conservative slider bar.
That seems to me a pretty sure-fire formula for getting pitted, regardless of persuasion.
) in providing us with an excellent environment is undermined by this one individual – I do mean that, though I will concede it has a certain touch-yer-toes-and-think-of-England quality.