Don't be such a Jerk, Ukulele Ike

The BBQ Pit
41

Before my daughter was born, I made the brilliant statement “she will NEVER eat that trash at Mcdonald’s.”

Then about 2 years later, when I could not get her to stop crying, I would say in a sing song voice “we’ll go to McDonald’s!!!”

I also said “we will home school her.”
She will graduate from public high school in June where she is on the varsity basketball team and has many friends.

And the first movie she ever saw at a theatre with me was…“the Little Mermaid” And she had a little nightgown with little mermaid on it.

And the strangers who took care of her in pre school weren’t strangers after the first few days. And she made friends there and we made friends with some of the parents.

And she doesn’t do drugs. And doesn’t have sex. I hope.

She has turned out fine even with all the negative influnces around.

Enjoy your child.

42

It is about Disney. Nearly anything else you can mention is not a pervasive as Disney is in children’s entertainment.

The thing about all those games, is at least for the ones I have seen, is that the styles vary. Artistic variations between each set of video games is quite extensive. No one style has driven out all the rest. Disney promotes a sameness that creates an expectation so that anything non-Disney style seems out of place. I’ve talked to small children who objected non-Disney toys and animation because it was not like Disney.

I think there is much more variation even in the animation of Warner Brothers than of Disney. Fantasia still has the sameness about it and that it originally included blackface is also none to endearing. And Shadez how the hell can you tell that I have not researched the father’s presense? When did that come up? I have researched many more aspects to Disney than I have mentioned on the boards. There are many reason’s I find them loathsome.

As Wring notes some seem to think Disney is the only thing fit for children. I can’t think that having one child raised without Disney is a bad idea. If they rebel by becoming Disney’s greatest fan, so be it.

43

Best advice, ever!

44

When I read “They seem to encourage the craving of pap by the American public” in the OP, I thought this was satirical thread. How wrong I was.

Good luck on raising a kid that doesn’t crave pap.

45

Like djf750, I too had some mighty high ideals pre-kiddies. No kid of mine was going to wear disposable nappies, or synthetic fabric next to their sensitive skin…it was woollen pilchers or nothing. Macca’s was a definite no-no, and any ‘war-toys’ were to be immediately confiscated. I didn’t see anything wrong with Disney stuff, but in those days there was slightly less hype than there is now anyway.

As you can guess, my ideals soon gave way to living a more relaxed parenthood. I think what changed me was the day my then 2 yr old son, having never seen ANY violence on the television etc, decided to fashion a ‘rifle’ out of a stick that he’d found in the garden, then proceeded to ‘shoot’ some magpies out of the gum tree in the yard.

Ukelele Ike was just sharing some old-timer’s wisdom with you lee. Keep your hernia-having until you REALLY need it. :smiley:

46

I have some inside information:

I have a friend whose daughter was on a tv show on the WB network. She told me that her daughter’s check did not come from Warner Bros., but from Disney. She didn’t know why and I don’t either. Does Disney own WB? I am not making this up. She was confused about it too.

47

Hey, me too! Only I managed to hold out for at least three years. :wink:

I hit that third stage with Child #2 - one reason I won’t have another is that it would be playing in the streets by the age of two. As a friend told me many years ago, when I confided that I was having urges to have a third child, “Good lord, you can’t handle the two you’ve got!”

lee, this is one of those bits of humor that don’t seem funny at the time but that you’ll understand when you’re older (in terms of experience). It’s just like when people smile indulgently at a teenager who wants to be taken seriously - it’s maddening, but they don’t mean anything by it. And they usually turn out to be right, at least in the global sense. We older parents don’t mean to be patronizing…but we just can’t help ourselves.

I was a far, far better parent when my children were still theoretical, and it broke my heart when I realized, after my first baby was born, that I couldn’t make her life perfect. After thirteen years, I’ve (mostly) come to terms with that, and I’ve realized that parents don’t have to be perfect for their kids to turn out just fine.

I’ll bet people pat your stomach without permission, too. Sorry about that, but just like unsolicited comments from more experienced parents, it won’t last. I wish you a good rest of the pregnancy and a healthy, happy baby.

48

This is about Disney to you. I do not care if you choose not to expose your child to Disney. You are getting negative feedback in this thread because you are percieved to have over-reacted to a joke. If you think anyone here is saying you’re a bad parent if you deprive your child of Disney (which is what you seem to think we’re saying), then you’re wrong.

49

Uh, this will be my third child and I fully support lee in her determination in this matter.

There is plenty of culture out there that we can expose our child to without having to support the pablumization of culture that is Walt Disney.

50

I took to the lean back and crack a beer (heavy on the root) at about ohhhhh day 3 of my first child! Just takes to much effort to be that high strung…

so far he is:
reading a grade ahead
doing math work at his grade level
playing well with others
says please , thank you and excuse me…

So who says being laid back isnt the way to go…

well we did have to hide the scissors for awhile…:smiley:

51

djf750, I wouldn’t worry too much about the vast Disney consipiracy. The network that a show appears on often has nothing to do with who produces the show. For example, ER, a huge hit for NBC, is actually produced by Warner Bros. Buffy the Vampire Slayer is produed by Twentieth Century Fox despite the fact that it airs on UPN. I don’t know the specifics of the shows on the WB network, but I would suspect that whatever show she was on was produced by Disney, but airs on WB.

Lee, I know that you are passionate about doing what is best for your child and that is a wonderful thing - I think that most of us here would be a little worried if you weren’t. However, I think that you have allowed your loathing of Disney (obviously shared by many, including some of those who have responded) to color your reaction to Ike’s comments. I can not speak for him, but I find it almost impossible to believe that his comment was anything other than teasing about expectations vs. reality when it comes to parenting - the old timer giving the newbie a bit of hazing, but hazing meant in good fun.

I don’t think that anyone here wants you to lose the passion for doing what’s best for your child. I think it’s wonderful that you want to be so involved in their life - especially these days when so many parents don’t seem to want to do so. But if you are going to jump down the throat of everyone that offers innocent advice, mild teasing (and it was pretty mild), or makes a well intentioned mistake (such as giving a toy that you don’t approve of), you’re going to be putting yourself and them through a lot of unnecessary stress.

52

I’m disappointed with most of the people in this thread. (this is aimed at the ones who were assuming she would change her views when the child was a certain age, not those asking questions / debating her views on Disney)

Yes, lee may be overreacting to a well-meant comment, but I’m not touching that part at all.

What I can’t believe is the presumption and patronising that is going on in this thread. Yes, lee has certain ideals. Yes, you may not agree with them. Yes, they may not last and her parenting ideals may all get blown away before her child is 2. But how do you expect her to react (how did you react when people did it to you?) when some of you are dismissing her parenting intentions, not because of their merits, but because you had ideals and they didn’t last.

How fucking rude and arrogant to assume that her experience will be the same as yours. Some of you sound like the person everyone can’t stand who has been-there, done-that, knows everything, etc… IOW, a presumptive, arrogant bore. Seriously, just because (for whatever reason) you failed to continue in your ideals (or you changed them, after new information) doesn’t mean lee automatically will.

How about you all agree to lay off her, agree that she should try and raise her child in the best way she sees fit, and if it’s really bugging you and you have to be all-knowing and right, start a thread in a few years, linking to this one and ask her how it’s going. At least give her the chance to follow through on her views before you tell her she’ll fail.

It sounds an awful lot like the people who condescendingly tell me I’ll change my mind about some things I hold as an integral part of myself. We’ll see when I’m 40 who was right, the same as you can see when lee’s child is two or three if you were right. It’s just amazingly arrogant to tell someone else how their future will be, not to mention extremely irritating.

Lee, I have no opinion on the whole Disney thing, but I hope you do meet your ideals when it comes to raising your much-wanted child. You know that just because 99 out of 100 people do ‘X’, it doesn’t mean that you won’t be the one who does ‘Y’. I like you a lot, lee, you aren’t one of the sheeple. All the best.

53

First it was “craving of pap”, now I see “pablumization of culture”. What’s with the banning of Disney and talking like George Will?

54

Just didn’t want you to blame wring…that was me, or to be more accurate, my parents. We all turned out pretty well, so it didn’t seem to corrupt us. (Of course this WAS a long time ago) Not that we went to all that many movies anyway, we didn’t have any money and there were four of us children. And then there was the stuff we learned at home, which was pretty much how we became who we are/were. I don’t think the few movies we WERE able to go to influenced us much.

Of course, we didn’t get to watch TV, either, or at least not much. We didn’t even HAVE one for a long time and when we did it was strictly supervised.

My father seems to have been to a lot of movies when HE was a child, but the only one he ever talks about is when his mom took him to a movie…JUST HIM!!! and not the other 9 children in his family. It seems to have made more of an impression on him that his mom took JUST HIM than whatever the movie was. Hmmm…

How are you planning on dealing with TV?

Just curious.

55

I’m a mother and a Disney stockholder. I started the kids’ college funds out with that stock, too. Can I get any lower than that? :smiley:

Seriously I haven’t heard anything about their treatment of mothers, but if I had concerns like that I might decide to limit the kids’ exposure to company products…without expecting 100% success and community cooperation. :::shrugs::: Mothers do that stuff sometimes. I think it’s ingrained.

56

I do think it’s a little interesting that Lee appears to be blaming Disney for the absence of mothers in their animated flicks. Consider the source material:

Little mermaid - no mother in the Hans Christian Anderson story “The Sea King had been a widower for many years” (although there was a grandmother)

Beauty and the Beast - I browsed my copy from the 1919 Young Folks Treasury and no mother is every mentioned (but her absence isn’t explained either)

Cinderella - no mother

Tarzan - orphaned, raised by apes

Quasimodo from a Hunchback of Notre Dame - In Victor Hugo’s version he was rescued as an infant from an orphanage by Claude Frollo

Jungle book - lost in the jungles of India as a child

Bambi - Disney didn’t kill Bambi’s mother, Felix Salten did

And what about the Disney films where mothers are wonderful? Mrs. Darling in Peter Pan or Dumbo’s mom?

Just seems to be a weird thing to blame Disney for when generally they adapt a work that already exists. Hate them for other things sure, but the “no good mom” thing seems kind of out of left field. Hate Hans Christian Anderson or Rudyard Kipling if you’re so upset at the lack of good mother figures in kid’s lit.

57

While I agree that lee may be overreacting to an innocent remark made by a veteran parent, I don’t have a problem with the boycott of Disney. Whatever she feels is best is fine.

This reminds me of my own childhood, in a vague way. My parents didn’t want us kids listen to popular music. They loved Classical. Their tactics worked wonderfully. They educated us on the wonders of Classical, took us to Hollywood Bowl concerts, played “games” (“guess the nationality of the composer”) and so forth. They got us engaged and involved in the music they aproved of. And they NEVER forbade us from listening to anything else. We could listen to whatever we wanted, nary a word from them. Only my dad sometimes had a “stabbed through the heart” look if we played something “undesirable”.

I got more flack from my schoolmates and friends, who felt I was missing out in something integral and life-sustaining because I wasn’t listening to the latest boy band. Their attitude (and downright anger at my audacity to not share their tastes in music) made me even more firm in my resolve to not listen to the stuff. The people advocating it were being complete assholes and jerks, after all. My parents were not. I could listen to what I wanted, if I really wanted.

I bring this all up to point out that lee can do whatever she wants, and more power to her. I personally like a lot of Disney stuff (and love Disneyland) but I completely understand her point of view. I do think she’s being idealistic if she thinks she can remove all traces of Disney from her kid’s life (and I don’t know if she really expect to do that). And I think that the “forbidden fruit” aspect may be a problem (which is why my parents’ not controlling our music choices was such a brilliant move). I think that pointing out to the kid the flaws in Disney, and the strengths of whatever else lee chooses to expose the kid to instead will be a good move. YMMV.

58

I just hope that lee actually looked at everything Disney has available before making her decision rather than just deciding to institute a blanket Disney ban–not all of their movies are the same. I’m not the biggest Disney fan, but I do like some of their older movies (such as Mary Poppins* and The Parent Trap) and, after my sister finally convinced me to watch it, I loved Lilo and Stitch.

If my exposure to Disney was only through movies such as Pocahontas and 101 Dalmatians, I’d be banning them all from my house, too, and I don’t even have kids.

*I’ll admit here that I’m posting entirely due to the fact that I think every child should get to see Mary Poppins–but c’mon, a lack of Disney movies isn’t gonna kill the kid.

59

I’m childless myself, but I can see where lee is coming from regarding the banning of Disney products etc. from her children’s home. After all, I don’t have a problem in following any dietary restrictions imposed by my friends who are parents on what their kids eat, including the hyperactivity caused by too many lollies.

That said, Ukelele Ike was making a joke. If you found it in poor taste, lee, you really should have just reported it to the other mods. In this case, he was being a member, just as we are – and possibly making the same errors of judgement we do.

It would have saved a lot of the finger-pointing that’s gone on so far here in this thread.

60

It is about Disney.

and

the pablumization of culture that is Walt Disney.

So Don Bluth is ok then, I take it?

One question, though. In the lee household, what will be deemed Disney and what shall pass? Will your child be allowed to watch NBC and CBS but not ABC? Movies by Amblin or New Line Cinema but not Buena Vista or Touchstone? Root for the Dodgers and Kings but not the Angels or Ducks? I can’t find their names at the moment, but I know Disney also has music recording and book publishing distributors that don’t use the Disney name. Will they be verboten?