electrical wiring question

Yes, I’d say the switch is bad.
I was just thinking, you said, there were four wires coming out of the switch, I wonder if it’s possible that you just swapped two of them. Doing that would cause exactly this problem. If the switch has four terminals, you need one set of wires to go to the bottom ones and one set to go to the top ones. If the screws are different colors (brass on one side, silver on the other) hook the colored wires up to the brass and the white wires to the silver.
Are both the white wires on the same side? Are their corresponing colored wires also in the right place (if one white wire is at the top, the colored wire that comes into the box with it, should also be at the top).

Does it say ON/OFF on the switch itself? I’m still wondering if you got a three or four way switch by accident.

I’d love to help your troubleshoot this problem, but at this point, I think it’s going to involve the use of some testing equipment (voltage detector at the least) and some pictures with labeled wires.

If you want to try something, try this:
Take the switch out, twist and cap the white wires together, twist and cap the colored wires. Turn the breaker back on (it was off, right). Fan comes on? Good.
Now, turn off power, separate the colored wires, turn power on. No fan? Good.
Now, go out and buy a switch, it should have to screws plus a ground screw. Attach your ground (copper or green wire to green screw), attach one colored wire to each screw, reinstall switch into box, turn power on, test switch. Works? Good.

Honestly, at this point, I think the first switch was bad. The new switch, switches both the hot and neutral lines (like the old one) and maybe you wired it wrong, maybe it had a different configuration and even though the wiring looked the same, you just bypasses the switch. Who knows.

Thanks Joey–I think you are right. I was going to do exactly what you mentioned when I got home, switch the wires and see if that solved the problem. I woke up this morning thinking why not try that to see what would happen. I could have easily flipped the wires when I rewired it, didn’t think I did, but I can see how that could happen. At least it is logical. I think that is the frustrating part is that in the past logic seems to work with electrical stuff! But it wasn’t working this time.

I will do that when I get home and let you know! Thanks.

the switch would either have failed being closed (on) position even though the handle might move.

wiring came loose inside the box where the switch was and completed the circuit. if wiring came loose it would much more likely blow the fuse/breaker or not allow the fan to run.

one or the other can’t be true otherwise you would have the same previous working situation.

either you purchased the wrong switch (you want a SPST and you got something other) or you wired it wrong or both.

your description sounds confused. you seem to have too many wires and the wrong wires going to the switches.

get an electrician, have to problem solved. let us know what happened. i would suggest that the electrician give you a written explanation or you write it down as the electrician explains it in order to get it straight.

if a DPDT switch was used and the neutral was being switched it is wrong.

No one said it was correct. Could have just been what some random handyman had in the back of his truck. Could be what Joe homeowner got from the hardware store when he did the job himself. Who knows?

Also, do they make 4 pole switches where the neutral is always closed (unswitched?)

my point was that an incorrect situation shouldn’t be repeated even it might work in some fashion.

and a person could use half of a DP switch as a SP switch and the neutral be unswitched as it should.

I’ve never experienced this with AC but I’ve experienced it on a 12V circuit. I’ve had shorts that were indirect (not touching directly) and the circuit was completed with water. It was enough to conduct electricity but not enough to blow a fuse. What made me think of this was the fact that it occurred after a shower which involves a lot of moisture specifically going through the fan area.

thanks for the input— I tired various combinations of the wires and nothing worked, the fan still runs and the switch doesn’t do anything.

The electrician hasn’t called back but that is the direction I am going in. I will just wait until he gives me a call and he can deal with it. Oh well, I gave it my best shot.

Have you run the wires back from the fan? It could be in a junction box with other circuits. A different line could be providing the power due to poorly wired connections mashed together. I’ve seen 10 lbs of wiring in a 5 lb junction box before.

Have you tried eliminating the switch all together?
Take the switch out, put the white wires together and the colored wires together and turn the breaker on. The fan should run.

Now, leave the white wires alone and separate the colored wires, turn the breaker on, the fan should not run. If the fan runs in this condition, you have a problem. It could be a lot of things and shouldn’t be too hard to figure out with some time and a voltage tester, but I think it may be beyond your ability.
If the fan doesn’t run in this condition, just pick up the correct switch and install it between the two colored wires and you should be good to go.

hmm I will give that a try – what the hell, I have to wait for the electrician my wife contacted to call me anyways. I would rather solve this myself and I think it is within my abilities. I am an Architect so in general nothing here should be too shocking (heh) but I don’t do installations, but I do understand the general. And you know what they say about in theory there is no difference between practice and theory, but in practice there is. Will try it and let you know what happens.

It could be and if I had more time that is what I would do. Thanks for the input.

One other thought I had was that it could be wired to a thermostat in the attic and acts also as a house fan. A few web sites I found online suggests that–it would seem odd to put the thermostat in the attic but it could be.

But if it is anything more involved then the switch I will leave it to the pros.

a bathroom fan would not be useful in that way.

I think it is certainly time to bring in the electrician. It may be simple but you may also see a fair amount of head scratching on their part. Wiring can certainly become mysterious. Besides improper connections shorts can also develop; wires vibrate, can be damaged by nails etc.

One bathroom fan (the biggest/most used) is usually designated as the primary ventilation van and will be relayed to the furnace to bring in make up air to maintain positive pressure. Turning the fan on triggers the furnace not the other way around.

Thermostats / humidistats in the attic control attic ventilation fans to move air through the attic. They have nothing to do with bathroom fans and bathroom ventilation is always isolated from the attic due to moisture.

Okay
Finally was able to get an electrician to show up. The first one was supposed to come right before Thanksgiving, then the whole county lost power for 24 hours, so needless to say I was no longer their priority. Then I never could get him rescheduled.

So I had a guy coming out to modify my main electrical panel so that I can use an emergency generator (hello–power outage for 24 hours happens a lot here) and he looked at this fan for me.

I didn’t go into too much detail with him but in essence it was wired incorrectly from the get-go. Twasn’t anything I did thank god. But basically as I understood his explanation there was a wire going directly from the fan switch to the light switch which left the circuit open. He took that off and wired it correctly and lo and behold the damn fan goes off when you flip the switch. What a novel concept.

Now I didn’t do anything between the two switches and he showed me the wire. He said what they had done works but isn’t standard practice and so he rewired it quickly and now all is fine. Still doesn’t explain why it worked and then stopped working–and I didn’t to get into that kind of detail with him.

Thanks again for all your suggestions above. I knew it couldn’t have been anything had done as I didn’t do anything but replace a switch which I have done numerous times before.

But I mentioned I would come back when I found out what was causing it. So there you go.

I think you mean “closed”. An open circuit is not complete, and no current flows.
:slight_smile:

grrrr… :smiley:
that is what happens when I post when I happy!

Sorry, engineers are picky about stuff.

I’m glad your problems are over! :slight_smile: