So, where is the line?
For instance, on my desk in front of me is my grandfather’s World War I Victory Medal. If I pin it on my shirt and go to the grocery store am I committing a crime, or do I have to outwardly claim that I’m a 41-year-old WWI veteran?
I can’t speak to the law, but as a military veteran, I do not think that it at all appropriate to wear someone else’s decorations, even those of a relative.
There is no problem with putting them on display, ideally with an annotation indicating the name of the honoree, but actually wearing the awards/decorations can only be interpreted as implying that the wearer was awarded said awards/decorations.
As a military and combat veteran, I disagree with robby. It’s fine by me, as wearing a medal isn’t a claim to be the recipient. No recipient would wear the medal on civilian attire like that. So looking at a relatively young person in the grocery store wearing a medal on Memorial/Remembrance Day, I would assume that it’s not their medal unless told otherwise. Now if they’re in uniform, well…that crosses the line.
If it were not a criminal offense, how could you stop people from doing this, then?
The only reason you are hearing about this idiot is because he was reported to the FBI. The only reason the FBI got involved is because it is a federal offense. You quickly debase the uniform and the authority that it represents if any idiot could run around wearing a uniform with impunity.
BTW, it is indeed a federal offense to wear the uniform of one of the Armed Services if not actually a member.
From 10 USC, Subtitle A, Part II, Chapter 45, Section 771:
10 USC, Subtitle A, Part II, Chapter 45, Section 772 lists some exceptions, including those for movie and theatrical actors.
How do you then distinguish between someone wearing a long-discontinued award of a relative (such as a WWI Victory Medal), from that of someone wearing a relative’s Bronze Star, which is still being awarded today?
I occasionally see veterans wearing medals on civilian clothes (usually the miniature medals on suit lapels) on special occasions. I generally assume that they are the recipients.
Making it illegal also gives the police something else to tack onto a sentence if someone was impersonating military personnel for more nefarious purposes.
Like outfitting your vehicle to resemble an unmakred police car and wearing clothes that also resemble police uniform and going around pulling women over or gaining entry into their homesand making them do, things.
It depends how realistic they were trying to look. If their uniforms had name and “U.S. ARMY” on the chest, with rank and everything else like a real uniform, it probably wouldn’t be kosher. But that’s unlikely. Chances are they got something from a military surplus store and were wearing it, but most wouldn’t confuse it for a real uniform. It’s a close enough approximation: we get that you’re pretending to be a soldier, but we know you aren’t actually one. From what robby cites, that’s why “military” apparel from the costume store looks nowhere near the real thing.
That’s just the thing: i’m not even sure i want to. I really don’t care.
If they get found out, as this guy did, then the person who discovers the deception (like the woman at the reunion, in this case) can point and laugh. There are websites devoted to outing fake veterans. This sort of social opprobrium is completely fine. I just don’t think it needs to be criminalized.
There are plenty of things people do that i find offensive, inappropriate, and worthy of scorn, but that i don’t believe should be illegal.
Huh?
I’m not arguing against the laws that prohibit impersonating an officer of the law. That is, as i said in another recent thread on this subject, a completely different issue. Laws against impersonating the police have perfectly reasonable public safety justifications. There is no such justification for making it illegal to wear medals of valor.
And what person who is trying to imitate a cop would do so while wearing the Purple Heart or the Medal of Honor?
His classmate was a Navy Commander which is the equivalent of a Marine Lt. Colonel so that one was plausible but a 38 year old E9 isn’t realistic at all.
I’ve known many mid-30s O-5’s. That’s not unreasonable.
A mid-30s E-9 is pushing it. He would have had to have had time-in-grade waived twice for promotions.
I could certainly see making it a crime to wear false medals or insignia for the purpose of achieving some improper end, like becoming eligible for some grant or scholarship (or discount) or assuming false authority over others. Or if the impersonation takes place in a combat zone or military base, regardless of purpose or effect. But where it’s just a pathetic attempt at social advancement in a civilian setting, I guess I lean toward mhendo in that it seems to me that the social scorn ought to be sufficient.
I wonder if he’s actually looking at jail time or just probation.
But that’s on special occasions and people who actually look like they could’ve earned the medals. Not to mention the suit. It’s different.
Nice.
Absolutely. But i imagine that this sort of thing would be encompassed by most existing laws against fraud or deception for gain.
Also, if you’re applying for some sort of grant or fellowship or government aid or benefit on the basis of veteran status, i’m sure they don’t say, “Please enclose a photo of you wearing your medals.” And if you did enclose such a photo, i’m sure your claim would not be allowed on the basis of the picture. They have mechanisms whereby you demonstrate your eligibility, through things like Social Security Numbers, military identification, birth certificates, references, etc., etc.
I’m all for the uniform wearers and uniform wearers with awards being sent to jail. I couldn’t care less about who puts on what with civilian clothes. To me, it’s the linking of uniform with award which is punishable, or just the uniform itself.
Just because it’s (arguably) a victimless crime, doesn’t mean that it shouldn’t be a crime. Having said all that, I admit this all comes from the irrational part of my brain.
I’ve known plenty of officers who wouldn’t pass as officers, though I grant that is rare with commanders and above. I knew a LCdr who’s highly unofficial nickname was slingblade, because they may as well have based that character off of him. He was booksmart sure, but the most socially awkward person I’ve ever met, and had none of the confidence one normally associates with people of that position.
And I’ve known plenty of other officers who had no hollywood style officer characteristics… ditzes, frat boys, geeks, lazy sacks of shit, indecisives… you name it, they’re out there, but generally as rank rises competence level rises.
Regarding it being a crime, I think that is asinine, and I have my own awards and medals. Nothing in any way special, mind you, but good lord… Its just a job. You don’t put someone in jail for lying that they were the Denny’s waitress of the month, and it shouldn’t be a crime to dress up like vet and wear all the attachments you feel like. Though of course if you tried to gain benefit from them, such as putting it on your resume, then of course that is fraud, but in social settings, afaik, fraud is completely legal.
I’ve known a few. it’s not unreasonable, but it’s not common.
I’ve never seen an E-9 that young. Never. And I’m in the Guard where we “give rank away”.
Sorry, but I do. We’ll have to agree to disagree.
Ah… The few. The proud. The fake Marines.
I don’t think wearing medals should be a crime. Rather I think that anyone caught wearing fake medals should be taken into a roomful of real Marines and let them hash it out.
Legal question.
Is it, in some places, a form of rape if you get laid under false pretenses? So if some woman at his reunion swoons over the uniform, and he is not a real marine, then isn’t that a form of rape?
Seriously?
If this were the case, then I know a ton of married men who’d be in jail.