How does anything exist?

Heh, expected, but not responsive. But you still haven’t answered my question. How does anything exist? It is very well to speak of matter/antimatter, black holes, etc. but that does not address my OP as it presumes some entity exists.

BA

If nothing existed, you wouldn’t be here to ask this question (repeatedly).

What kind of answer are you looking for?

It isn’t - everything is just one unchanging thing - change is an illusion.

And don’t bother getting up from that chair - you can’t.

An answer that does not foster creationism.

BA

That’s my feeling as well, Blackacre. I get the impression that the OP is holding his fingers in his ears and going “lalalala I can’t hear you!” until he hears the magic word: “goddidit”.

Damn, I must’ve gotten really confused. I blame low blood sugar. Carry on.

slinks away

Go for it Jomo. :slight_smile:

Well, I’m the OP and that’s the answer I’m trying to avoid/counter.

BA

With that, you’'re off to Great Debates.

samclem GQ moderator

Ahh, why is that? I haven’t brought a god into the debate, rather I’m asking what the lastest pre-Big Bang theory is, i.e. how did the big bang come about? The Big Bang being the origins of our universe last I heard. Now I’m asking if there is anything else, scientifically. Why is that a GD?

BA

Nobody knows. Nobody, at the very least nobody here, will ever know. Metaphysics is meaningless prattle whoever it comes from, so just pick your pet theory and remember it’s groundless. Goddunit, the Great Green Arkleseizure, what have you.

Mine would be that any logically possible set of facts (ie, a universe) exist. I reject the argument that there should fundamentally be nothing without outside interference. If there were nothing, there would be no counterforce to oppose the existance of something. Somethingness extends as far as it can in the absence of a counter-force, and it meets it’s bounding surface at the rules of logic. Why those particular (or any) rules hold is another ad infinitum argument.

But then, that’s just me. There’s no reason to accept the argument.

And by some entity I’m not saying that MY OP presumes some entity exists, i.e. a god, but that a couple of responses citing matter/antimatter and black holes assume that matter/antimatter and black holes exists, which does not address the thrust of my OP, i.e. pre Big Bang stuff.

BA

This is just another way of phrasing the age-old question regarding the maxim that from nothing nothing comes and that something must have a prime cause. Many believe that the prime cause (or mover) of the Universe is God. Other philosophers have had their own theories, including infinite series of causes.

Several theories concerning the Big Bang in the modern age have been expounded, the most frequently espoused is that the Big Bang was just one in an infinite series of Big Bangs, resulting from expanding and collapsing universes. This is just a fancy way of saying an infinite series of causes. Of course, this is unsatisfactory to the human mind which says, “Wait a minute. Infinite series!? There must be some beginning.” Fundamentalists say the question is answered by the first sentence of Genesis.

“There are more things in heaven and earth that are thought of in your philosphy.”

The original question presupposes objectivism. There is no way to prove this assumtion is true. Better to ask yourself why you believe your question makes sense to ask.

Don’t mistake me. I think subjectivists are poseurs at best, but the original question is based on tons of hidden premises and until you understand them, I don’t think you have a hope of undertsanding anything about what would make a satisfactory answer.

How does anything exist? The word “how” in this sentence means “by what means or mechanism.” Why do you believe that existence has a mechanism?

You can’t talk about “before the Big Bang”, because the Big Bang was the beginning of time. “Before” has no meaning without time, so “before the Big Bang” is a meaningless phrase.

What we know (or at least what we think we know): time started a finite number of years ago, with the Big Bang. (As far as I know, the Big Bang just means the point at which time began – although it refers specifically to the idea that the universe expanded from a singularity.) The universe has existed since then. So even though the universe has been around for a finite number of years, it has existed for all of time.

Is your question why is there a universe? Why is there such a thing as time? I’m not sure that there is a reason. But I don’t think that there needs to be. Even if someone says “every event has a cause” (which I’m not sure I believe), I don’t think the creation of the universe really qualifies as an event. There wasn’t some pre-universe time, and then some event that caused there to now be a universe. The universe was there at the start. Existence just exists. Why should there by a reason?

Before my first cup of coffee for the day, I chalk it up to Consesual Mass Delusion.

By my second cup: Consensual Mass Hysteria.

YMMV.

Let me run with creationsim.

OK, hypothetically, let us say that a God, in whatever form, whether it be an abstract concept or toenail fungus, created the universe.

Now, where did this God come from?

Yes and no…

Welp, this is what I was getting at. Cite!!!

Responses regarding SCIENTIFIC research is/was my goal, mate.

BA

Let me paraphrase tim314:
You can’t talk about “before God”, because God was there at the beginning of time. “Before” has no meaning without time, so “before God” is a meaningless phrase.

Is your question why is there a God? I’m not sure that there is a reason. But I don’t think that there needs to be. Even if someone says “every event has a cause”, I don’t think the creation of God really qualifies as an event. There wasn’t some pre-God time, and then some event that caused there to now be a God. God was there at the start. God just exists. Why should there by a reason?

Not that I believe the above, but I’m just trying to show that both religion and science say similar things about “the beginning”. Both are very unsatisfactory in my opinion. I think we will never know.