In fairness, technically, the pug’s closest relative breed-wise is the mastiff.
The curly tail and happy snurfling detracts somewhat from their aura of menace.
Thanks for mentioning this (seriously). I dream about having a pug but stuff like this reminds me it’s not for me.
Thank you for recognizing the good you’ve seen in pit bulls and for respecting the breed; and please forgive me for using your other comments as a jumping off point to make the points I need to make.
These claims have been addressed ad nauseum in the previous pit bull threads, so I will try to be brief.
**Trixie (40 pounds of muscle) shook my friends girlfriends poodle to death by the head. **
Dog aggression is different from human aggression. Some pit bulls are dog-aggressive, and some people say that it’s genetic in those lines (and thus not amenable to training, only management). No pit bulls are innately human-aggressive by nature (as a generalization); in fact, they are much less likely to be human-reactive than the guarding breeds.
I am sorry a dog was hurt, but…labs are bird-aggressive, terriers are small-rodent-aggressive, beagles are rabbit-aggressive, and so on. I have had birds, small rodents, and rabbits as beloved pets too – and I did not call labs, beagles, and terriers dangerous, nor ask that they be banned. Even after a lab (running loose, unleashed and unwatched) killed my one of my pet rabbits.
Hobbs (80 lbs of muscle) snapped dog chains and cornered my friends wife for 2 hours because he was guarding his food bowl
Snapped chains, eh? It might interest you to know that experts believe chaining dogs is a major factor in dog attacks on humans. How much of Hobbs’ issue was because he was chained, versus his breed? How much of “cornered” was the dog’s intention versus the human’s misunderstanding (see above stories of people running from dogs and wetting their pants). I don’t know, I wasn’t there; I wonder if the people who were there really know dogs and whether the threat was real or an overreaction.
**I read about pits mauling people (in the NY Daily News etc.) often enough over the years. **
This happens for a variety of reasons. Pits appear to be hugely popular right now; if a small percentage of them bite, it might appear to be a large number of cases. More to the point, a “pit bull” is dramatic – people bitten by a pit will make a bigger deal of it than people bitten by a lab, and it will sell more papers, and make more police officers look brave, if someone says “pit.” Furthermore, it’s been established that the public at large is terrible at identifying pit bulls; many people have no good idea what a pit bull looks like, and far fewer people know there are many “bully breed” and Molosser-descended dogs that have similar features (including dogs bred to attack humans). Lastly, pit bulls can be made aggressive to people because they’re hugely trainable. Think about it – the worst-case scenario for a pit bull is that he will die in the fighting ring for his human; he will generally do anything else you train him to do, also, and some idiots abuse that.
You know what else pit bulls can be trained to do? Our most beloved and highlu-decorated military dog was a pit bull. The all-time record drug bust police K-9? A pit bull. [Why a drug-sniffer? Police don’t use pit bulls for “bite work” or apprehending suspects…why? Because it’s hard to train them to bite people. Much easier to use a guarding breed.] The greatest disc-dog sport champion alive today? A pit bull. And guess who makes a great therapy dog?
**I read about pits mauling people (in the NY Daily News etc.) often enough over the years. Not Rottweilers or Shepherds or Great Danes but pitbulls. **
Well, you’re reading current newspapers. In past years, if you dig through the archive, you’ll find articles and editorials denouncing the murderous German Shepherd, or screeds about the dangers of Doberman Pinschers, or Irish wolfhounds, or whatver dog was the “hot” Evil Dog to denounce at the time. During WWI, Americans killed dachshunds on the streets because they were “enemy” dogs. It just happens to be the pit bull’s turn in the wringer right now. While mobs were looking for Dobermans and sniffy magazine writers were deploring German Shepherds, the American Pit Bull Terrier was safe, because they lived in our homes with our children and no one was having any trouble with them. There are no articles from the Depression about the dangers of pit bulls; they were loved. What changed? Our fears, not our dogs.
Its not their fault that they are the way they are but I’d never trust one around a child. You’re right, in a sense – NO dog should be entirely unsupervised around children. That includes the Jack Russell Terrier that killed a baby in Tennessee. And my own sister’s miniature poodle, who is registered with Animal Control as a dangerous dog. Remember the face transplant woman? A Labrador retriever did that, to an adult. Dogs are dogs; they have teeth.
But you’re wrong, in a sense, too. Before we went crazy and lost our historical perspective, pit bulls used to be known as “the nanny dogs,” because they were exceptionally good with children – their submissiveness, ability to shrug off the pain of a pulled tail or a stepped-on-foot, and general good nature toward humans made (and makes) them sturdy, gentle, valiant dogs with small children.
With so many other breeds to choose from I respectfully pass on pitbulls. Excellent idea. The breed desperately needs more informed, dedicated guardians and fewer impulse buyers or unready resucers. And you are right that resources are also a factor – too many people would tie a pit bull to the garage door and feed him once a day. They need the same love as any other dog – and probably more than many, they are not a standoffish, independent breed – and they have almost no coat for weather protection, and they’re athletic, needing space and exercise, and they benefit greatly from time spent training them and playing with them.
But a belief persists that you can make excellent (and tax-free) money breeding and selling pits, even if you’re poor. I’ve personally been approached many times by people with dollar signs in their eyes and an empty hole where their hearts should be.
It’s no wonder they’ve got the blues.
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:rolleyes: (Pit)bullshit. I know this is “talk-out-your-ass,” er I mean, “mundane pointless stuff”, but do you have any sort of cite for this - not one example but the sort of rampant misidentification implied by “any.” I’ve seen the can-you-spot-a-pit test, with mastiffs and bulldogs, and passed with flying colors. I’m looking for reliable information to support this oft spouted claim that an abundance of dog attacks were misattributed to pit bulls (American Staff, American Pit, or Staff)
A dog was not hurt. A dog was KILLED. And you make this point about “dog aggression” as if we should collectivley concede, “Just dogs? Oh, well that’s ok, then.” Let me be the first one to break this to you Marlon Perkins, dogs are a hell of a lot more common pets than rabbits, other rodents, or birds. Moreover, a dog is much more likely to be innocently and appropriately in a place (namely a yard or on a leash) where it susceptible to an attack by an aggressive dog. If you had your rabbit in a place where an unleashed dog could get to it, you’re a bad rabbitt owner.
I’m sorry, but a dog that is inherrently aggressive towards other dogs is “dangerous,” and the last thing I want is every yahoo with a little dick adopting one. Thgouh a concientous pit owner might be able to appropriately manage and contain such an animal, there are far too many owners who do not. In my opinion the dog’s reputation of violence toward other animals is well earned and I am glad they are banned from local animal shelters.
Nope, I don’t carry them around with me – no need. I’ve actually researched the statistics, I’m sure you could do the same with the handy use of one of those internet search engines.
You really passed the Pit-Mastiff-Bulldog test? That’s really, really impressive, considering that I’ve worked with Pits, Am. Staffs, Mastifs, Am. Bully’s, English Bully’s, etc my entire life and I can’t do it. And, I’ve never met a vet or breeder who could reliably distinguish similar dogs that weren’t of their breeds immediate sub-lineage (most breeders of Old Southern Whites, for instance, can distinguish them from any other dogs, but most have difficulty distinguishing a generic American Bulldog from any other type). Not only all that, but Pit’s are genetically indistinguishable from American Bulldogs.
You must be magic! What else can you do? Rabbits from hats? I need entertainment for my next party.
Like I said, everybody mistakes Captain for a pit bull because he has a square head. He looks nothing like a pit bull in any other way - if you were to pick a dog body type you’d say he was a hound. (He’s supposed to be a Catahoula Leopard Dog mix.) If he bit you, which he never would, I bet you a hundred bucks that when the cops and the newspaper came you wouldn’t say “A Catahoula Leopard Dog just bit me!” You’d say he was a pit bull, because he has a square head and he bit you. People constantly ask me when I walk him if he’s a pit bull. He’s way too tall to be a pit bull anyway! He’s got a long, skinny chest! He doesn’t walk like a boxer! But nooo, “That’s a mean looking pit bull!”
And the snorting. Dear lord, the snorting. I’m the same way, but keeping the neighbor’s for a week pretty much cured me. Mostly. A lot. Almost.
It seems like these amazing, indistinguishable pits are the magic ones. There are any manner of find-the-pit tests. I passed this one in one try. This test, like most, is disengenuous in that you’re asked to find the American Pit Bull Terrier amongst pictures of other large breeds and look-alike breeds, inculding Amercian StaffordshireTerriers (also commonly called pit bulls). But that’s not where this all started is it? No it started with the claim that anything that doesn’t look like a yellow lab or a poodle is called a pit. It’s one thing to confuse a Boxer or an Engilsh Mastiff or a Saint Bernard with a pit - they’re easily distinguishable. It’s quite another to mistake a Cane Corso for a pit. Thing is, most of these look-alike breeds a pretty rare, at least in the US, so I would think you were trying to make the former point. I asked for proof. You gave me google (“tell me I’m right”). An admission of hyperbole would have been more in order.
The dogs you think are ‘so rare’ in the states, aren’t.
Am. Staff’s are often called pits, but they’re not. Lots of things are often called pits, and many of them aren’t rare in the states. Yes, my statement “anything not a yellow lab or poodle” was an intentional hyperbole, but it’s really not that far from correct.
I’ve seen collie-terrier mixes called “Pit mixes” in newspapers – newspapers and television aren’t concerned with getting the facts right on these types of stories, they’re interested in the best 10 second soundbyte they can get in order to attract viewers.
What sounds better, “PIT BULL MAIMS LOCAL BOY!” or “[SPITZ-TERRIER/AM.STAFF/ETC] BITES BOY, AFTER BEING KICKED BY THE BOY AND ABUSED BY ITS OWNERS AND THE BOY IS GIVEN THREE STITCHES!”?
Look, a black guy in my city shot someone. And there’s no doubt he’s aggressive! I’m GLAD they’re banned from my neighborhood.
Did you catch the part that dog aggression is inherent (to varying degrees) in some lines of pit bulls, and manifests in some descendants of those lines, and some people think it cannot be trained out of them? Many pit bulls have no dog aggression at all and never manifest any sign of it. Be careful not to let news stories cause you to tar an entire group with the sins of its most infamous members.
The newspapers once reported breathlessly “A black male fled the scene – be on the lookout for a black male in your neighborhood,” but they don’t use that tabloid style so much any more, I hope because they eventually realized that they were unfairly influencing people to believe in the worst stereotypes, just to sell papers.
In MY experience, the reactive dogs are usually leashed and under control of a handler (specifically BECAUSE they need to be controlled) when some idiot’s off-leash lab runs up to them and trouble starts. That’s not the fault of the leashed dog – the off-leash dog could also be hit by a car.
Truly dog aggressive/reactive pit bulls are carefully evaluated by conscientious handlers, and you’d be surprised to learn how frequently the really scary ones are put to death by their own families, just to avoid a future incident, when the situation seems certain to occur eventually. I’ve been part of an informal evaluation of a very sweet, head-butting, wiggly dog – a pit bull mix – who simply could not control herself when she saw another dog. We don’t know if she was born that way or if she was made that way by someone; all we know is that she died that way, put down because she was big and strong and fierce only toward other dogs. I watched her human’s face, as Paige failed the evaluation, and she knew what she’d have to do, and it was heartbreaking.
The fact that some thugs do the wrong thing in such cases doesn’t mean it’s the breed that’s the problem any more than than the car they drive or the shoes they wear. The problem is the thugs and the wrongdoing.
I don’t understand your argument about commonness of pets meaning anything – is it okay to kill minorities? I also don’t understand what you mean when you say “n my opinion the dog’s reputation of violence toward other animals is well earned,” when you just said other animals don’t matter as much.
For the record, the rabbit who died was inside a steel cage in a barn on our fenced property. I am a bad rabbit owner though, since I didn’t petition to have all dogs outlawed, in case one jumped the fence, wormed under the barn door, and pulled the rabbit’s leg off through the cage bars.
Lastly, you’re coming off a little…heated for this forum.
twenty stories.
Dude, half the dogs on those tests aren’t even recognized by the AKC.
Am Staffs are not “American Pit Bull Terriers” but they are commonly and not incorrectly called “pit bulls.” Even the most apologetic of pit bull advocates is not pointing to stories of AmStaffs being “misidentified” as “pit bulls.”
Seriously? That’s what you’ve got?
And in my experience, the “pit mix” that attacked my dogs while I was leash walking them lept her fence. See how that works? Maybe we can find some common ground here though. If you are in a city with a leash law and you unleash your dog beyond the confines of a fence (cause it’s extra smart obedient) you are a bad owner and a poor citizen
sometimes
As someone very attached to his dogs, my heart goes out to her. One of my dogs has barrier agression. Remove the barrier and the aggression is gone. Walks can be difficult. The last thing I want is someone reacting poorly to his snarls from the end of a leash.
It absolutely does. If you cannot distibguish between wearing apparrel, transportation and a trained killer, I can’t help you.
Doesn’t sound like it was real secure, no. If a pet could have gotten to it, then surely it was exposed to coyotes or wolves (whatever you have near you).
And your list of confirmed pit bull stories is where? 100% of the “pit bull attack” stories linked to in this thread are all cases of mistaken identity until you do.
Oddly enough, neither are Pit Bull Terriers, what’s your point?
The AKC isn’t the end all and be all of dog ownership, they’re a pedigree organization. Many, in fact most, pit-and-pit-like dogs aren’t AKC dogs.
Pit bull is a shortened term for American Pit Bull Terriers, there’s no question that AmStaffs are not Pit Bulls.
No one says they are, at least no one with any knowledge beyond “OMGSQUAREHEADPIT!”
Yeah, pit stories. We have a Pit bull/shepherd/boxer mix that we got from a rescue group, as a puppy. 80 pounds of muscle, covered with 20 pounds of doggie treats these days. He is both the sweetest dog I have ever had and also the most aggressive dog under certain circumstances. He just does not like some people and some dogs. He doesn’t bite but he will push with his head and chest and he will make the kinds of sounds that scare everyone. I would guess that the point of whoever was breeding him and his siblings was to make big mean dogs.
We see a lot of dogs that are much more aggressive when we are out and about, even trying to nip at my dog, but they aren’t big enough to be scary, at least to me and my dog. I would never, every allow a child to be around an unmuzzled toy poodle though.
Concur on this. The term pit bull is somewhat amorphous, but there is a commonly-agreed-upon usage among dog people.
The three breeds commonly recognized as pit bulls are the American Pit Bull Terrier, the American Staffordshire Terrier, and the Staffordshire Bull Terrier (“the British one.”) Commonly abbreviated APBT, AmStaff, and Staffy or Staffybull.
The American Bully is a new concept that may split off from the APBT and become a true breed. These are the “widebody” bow-legged things you see that until recently were being passed off as pit bulls.
The American Bulldog and the Bull Terrier are among many closely-related breeds that are not commonly considered pit bulls, although the Bull Terrier in particular is often mistaken for a “pit bull.”
No but they are a good way to track popularity/ownership of purebred (which many of the look-alikes are) dogs.
Yeah, you’re just wrong.
No, that’s what YOU brought to the thread.
Well, the Supreme Court just affirmed their right to have guns.