Is a four day school week a good idea?

[MrDarkness]

@SaintCad

What in the Hell in my post implied that I felt this way! I was pointing out the irony that to get students to succeed in school was to have them spend less time in school.

:smack: I do apologize, SaintCad. But you know how misunderstandings in text-only environments–sans all the cues and body language that accompany face-to-face verbal communication–occur frequently and readily. On first read, I thought I detected a tenor of social Darwinism. So much for first impressions.

I dig in my heels, however, on the implication of teachers being responsible for all the woes of the public school system. With all due respect, the problem lies elsewhere. Teachers are like weathermen–highly visible, easy targets.

Rush Limbaugh once asked his audience why it is that “those that can, do. Those that can’t, teach.” The simple answer, I fear is that it’s just such a cute thing to say.

If you’re looking for the defect, do as Deep Throat suggested in the movie All the President’s Men: follow the money. I don’t know where your school district is, but mine lies in the heart of urbane, sophisticated Southern California–a region that, by all rights, should finish near the top in national test scores. But in fact, we need to look to certain impoverished districts in Mississippi or Alabama to find lower scores than ours.

It wasn’t always this way, and the free-fall happens to coincide with the election of George Bush, the implosion of the economy that followed, and the consequent dwarfing of California’s tax base. A state flush with cash found herself drowning in red ink virtually overnight. Public education traditionally gets the largest slice of the spending pie at the state level, and that’s where most of the cuts were made. Which meant fewer teachers dealing with balooning class sizes, not to mention eroding school infrastructures. And if The Terminator gets his way, things will get worse long before they get any better.

I’m reminded of a cliche not, perhaps, as cute as those that can, do, Those that can’t, teach, but with greater validity: you get what you pay for.

[MandaJo]

As a teacher, I want to see my kids five days a week if at all possible. I hated block, the closest analogy to this: they couldn’t sustain the intensity of thought/discussion I need for 90 minutes, so we coverd less, and they forgot more in the meantime. And the “they have more time to do homework” thing never works out: kids procrastinate. Hell, adults do to. Even today I have kids tell me “On block we had two days to do our homework. It was so much nicer”, to which I responded “I give you a calendar on the first day of the grading cycle with every due date on it. You have WEEKS to do your homework” “Well, that’s different”.

On the other hand, a day a week to run errands without having to take a day off would be wonderful. But that’s what I want, not what I think is best for their educations.

[Saint_Cad]

@MrDarkness

:smack: I do apologize, SaintCad. But you know how misunderstandings in text-only environments–sans all the cues and body language that accompany face-to-face verbal communication–occur frequently and readily. On first read, I thought I detected a tenor of social Darwinism. So much for first impressions.

I dig in my heels, however, on the implication of teachers being responsible for all the woes of the public school system. With all due respect, the problem lies elsewhere. Teachers are like weathermen–highly visible, easy targets.
It wasn’t always this way, and the free-fall happens to coincide with the election of George Bush, the implosion of the economy that followed, and the consequent dwarfing of California’s tax base. A state flush with cash found herself drowning in red ink virtually overnight. Public education traditionally gets the largest slice of the spending pie at the state level, and that’s where most of the cuts were made. Which meant fewer teachers dealing with balooning class sizes, not to mention eroding school infrastructures. And if The Terminator gets his way, things will get worse long before they get any better.

I’m reminded of a cliche not, perhaps, as cute as those that can, do, Those that can’t, teach, but with greater validity: you get what you pay for.

First of all - as a teacher I tend not to blame the teachers. The thoughts expressed are those of the administrators in my district and policy makers in the state who feel that teachers are getting in the way of the students’ education. While it is true that there are bad teachers in the system, it is often allowed by administrators who, through ignorance or apathy, do not go through the right steps to generate a poor review (called a Stull in Calif) for the teacher.

Second - how did you find any social darwinism in my post. I didn’t distinguish between groups of students rich or poor.

The issue in California is both simpler and more complicated than Prop 13, Pete Wilson, or any other reason given for the failure in the state’s educational system. Under state law, extra money can be moved around in the budget. Let’s say the Lottery contribute $100 million to the education fund. The state can (and does) take $100 million out of the education fund and distributes it to other programs. The Feds give us $50 million to raise test scores? $50 million goes out to other budget items. And for those who love to blame Republicans - this has been done for years by our Democratic Assembly and Senate i.e. BOTH parties are to blame.

[MrDarkness]

@SaintCad

First of all - as a teacher I tend not to blame the teachers. The thoughts expressed are those of the administrators in my district and policy makers in the state who feel that teachers are getting in the way of the students’ education. While it is true that there are bad teachers in the system, it is often allowed by administrators who, through ignorance or apathy, do not go through the right steps to generate a poor review (called a Stull in Calif) for the teacher.

Second - how did you find any social darwinism in my post. I didn’t distinguish between groups of students rich or poor.

The issue in California is both simpler and more complicated than Prop 13, Pete Wilson, or any other reason given for the failure in the state’s educational system. Under state law, extra money can be moved around in the budget. Let’s say the Lottery contribute $100 million to the education fund. The state can (and does) take $100 million out of the education fund and distributes it to other programs. The Feds give us $50 million to raise test scores? $50 million goes out to other budget items. And for those who love to blame Republicans - this has been done for years by our Democratic Assembly and Senate i.e. BOTH parties are to blame.

First of all, I made no mention of Prop 13, Pete Wilson or “any other reason.”–nor would I have. When I apologized for my misperception of your original remark, I expected you’d reciprocate by not stuffing words and concepts into my mouth that I never spoke nor thought. You’ve opted for the low road–that of grabbing out of the hands of your protagonist his or her position, twisting and mangling it into a much more easily attackable form, then handing it back to them. Declaring it to be their “true” stance, you rip it limb from limb. Rush Limbaugh has taught you well his technique.

Secondarily, my sense of social Darwinism in your post was just a result of of licking an index finger and holding it skyward, taking note of which side felt evaporative cooling. It was purely intuitive–and incorrect.

Thirdly: are you single?

[Saint_Cad]

@MrDarkness

First of all, I made no mention of Prop 13, Pete Wilson or “any other reason.”–nor would I have. When I apologized for my misperception of your original remark, I expected you’d reciprocate by not stuffing words and concepts into my mouth that I never spoke nor thought. You’ve opted for the low road–that of grabbing out of the hands of your protagonist his or her position, twisting and mangling it into a much more easily attackable form, then handing it back to them. Declaring it to be their “true” stance, you rip it limb from limb. Rush Limbaugh has taught you well his technique.

It’s called the Strawman fallacy. My comments about Prop 13, Wilson, etc. was not directed at you but rather other teacher I’ve heard. While all of these are valid reasons for the dismal state of Calif education as is your reason, I was raising the point that any budgetary explanation (yours included) must account for the fact that extra money that goes into the education budget will very often not stay there thanks to the Calif Legislature with the help of the Governor. My response was not written well enough to explicitly state the link I was making between your point and other economic points that I have heard about this issue.

@MrDarkness

Secondarily, my sense of social Darwinism in your post was just a result of of licking an index finger and holding it skyward, taking note of which side felt evaporative cooling. It was purely intuitive–and incorrect.

That was quite a leap of logic, but OK, I’ll let it go.

@MrDarkness

Thirdly: are you single?

Are you asking me out? :dubious:

[MrDarkness]

@SaintCad

It’s called the Strawman fallacy. My comments about Prop 13, Wilson, etc. was not directed at you but rather other teacher I’ve heard. While all of these are valid reasons for the dismal state of Calif education as is your reason, I was raising the point that any budgetary explanation (yours included) must account for the fact that extra money that goes into the education budget will very often not stay there thanks to the Calif Legislature with the help of the Governor. My response was not written well enough to explicitly state the link I was making between your point and other economic points that I have heard about this issue.

That was quite a leap of logic, but OK, I’ll let it go.

Are you asking me out? :dubious:

Not at this time. This was a mere inquiry regarding your marital status for future reference.

There are no pleasures on God’s green Earth that exceed that of dinner and a movie punctuated by a lengthy political argument with a wildcat, then jumping into the hay with said wildcat, her claws bared.

[Clothahump]

@NinjaChick

Objections, off the top of my head:

1. In the linked article at least, they’re only extending the school day by an hour per day. That means they must be losing a few hours per week.

They will probably extend the school year by a week or two to make it up.

@NinjaChick

2. Assuming that the average 5-day/week school has a 7 hour day, increasing that even by an hour brings it to an 8 hour day. Fine for an actual workplace, but for most kids, that’s a really long time to be sitting in class.

The challenge is put on the teachers to make the classes interesting enough so that the kids don’t mind.

@NinjaChick

3. What happens to sports? Practices are going to get pushed back an hour, plus, students will be more tired to begin with. When I played soccer in school, it was a pain practicing from 3-5. If you start an hour later or more, it’s going to start to get dark, and parents will get pissed off about it.

Hot button here. I personally think way too much time and money is spent on high school sports. Personally, I’d eliminate all team sports and go to a general PE program.

@NinjaChick

4. I don’t know how universal this is, but I’m assuming tht my school district was hardly the only one to allow students to take an extra class in lieu of a lunch hour. You may or may not get a chance to eat in class, depending on your teachers and schedule. Eight hours is probably not a healthy amount of time for a 16-year-old to go without food.

I disagree with that policy. The kids need to eat.

My biggest question is whether they will have a rise in the local crime rates on the day off.

[even_sven]

I guess my attitude about this is that you do what you have to do, but they really shouldn’t be in such fiscal straights that they have to do stuff like this.

[amarinth]

My middle school was vaguely like this - 4 days standard curriculum, and then a half day on Wednesdays. (Teachers did teacher planning, and training, and conferencing, and whatever teachers do on Wednesday afternoons). Wednesdays were also non-standard curriculum days. Usually multi-week project classes, rather than social studies or math or English.
From what I remember, it worked for us. But it was a very small school with some very odd rules, and I do not know if it would work if spread across a larger school population. Also, most of the students at the school were old enough to not need child care, so that wasn’t the issue it would be if such a policy were implemented in an elementary school.

[Saint_Cad]

@MrDarkness

Not at this time. This was a mere inquiry regarding your marital status for future reference.

There are no pleasures on God’s green Earth that exceed that of dinner and a movie punctuated by a lengthy political argument with a wildcat, then jumping into the hay with said wildcat, her claws bared.

Isn’t that a bit presumptuous thinking I’ll let you ravage my body just for dinner and a movie? :dubious:

Oh by the way . . . I’m not female :eek:

[MrDarkness]

@SaintCad

Isn’t that a bit presumptuous thinking I’ll let you ravage my body just for dinner and a movie? :dubious:

Oh by the way . . . I’m not female :eek:

Ouch. Ol’ Chester runs for cover inside my lower abdomen as might the head of a frightened turtle inside his shell. Ok, forget the dinner and movie thing–and certainly the traditional aftermath. Let’s take in a baseball game or something. But let me warn you: I don’t engage in high-fives on a first date.

[MandaJo]

@Clothahump

The challenge is put on the teachers to make the classes interesting enough so that the kids don’t mind.

Without any pretense of modesty, I will tell you that I am widley regarded as one of the most challengeing and the most entertaining teachers at my school. Kids love my class. I am a good fucking teacher. But learning–serious analysis–is difficult. It’s work. Satisfying work, like gardening or weightlifting or scrubbing a really dirty floor or having really exuberant sex, but work all the same. It’s not a matter of making it interesting–it IS interesting, all I have to do is not get in the way of that–it’s a matter of sustaining intensity of thought on a single subject. It’s hard for adolecents to do that for more than about 45 minutes, in my experience. It’s impossible for many. They learn better in smaller bites, more often.

[buttonjockey308]

@Askia

I think one of the biggest changes in 21st century education would be the elimination of a summer break, converting ALL schools to year round schooling and the institution of a four day school week for high-performing schools.

Too many schools are day care centers for working parents or holding pens for teenagers with essentially no job skills.

You can’t have it both ways, man. It’s less school, or it’s more school.

Personally, I see kids having a summer break as not only wasteful, but a part of an unnecessary and outmoded tradition. Kids in Chicago aren’t out planting fields and harvesting corn, they’re out screwing up because their parents are too busy chasing a debtors dream to the poorhouse.

Academia is the only sector in this nation that feels that the pressures of life and the expectations of society should be put on hold for the summer. No one else gets the summer off. You have vacations, sure, but 2-3 months? Please. School should be attended 5 days a week, 50 weeks a year. In this way, kids would actually be out of school sooner, and be better prepared for the world to which they must then adapt.