Is it tougher to walk up a moving escalator?

We recently had a very long discussion in which it was finally understood that a person who closes their eyes would not be able to tell the difference between climbing a stopped escalator, an upward-moving escalatator, or a downward-moving escalator (same walking speed in all three cases). In all three cases, if you choose a frame of reference that moves with the rider, you’ll get the same answers regarding work and force.

If you’re riding up an escalator at X MPH and your kinetic energy is Y, then when you walk up the escalator so that your total speed is 2X MPH, your kinetic energy is 4Y. But of that extra 3Y, only 1Y came from your legs; the other 2Y came from the escalator. And in any event, your kinetic energy is pretty small compared to the change in potential energy as you ascend from first floor to second floor (or from platform level to street level at Rosslyn Station).

One broke down at a mall in Newfoundland recently.
People were stranded for hours.

Speaking from experience of several years of riding the metro to work in Washington DC I can tell you there is no difference. It is entirely possible to pretty much run up a moving escalator.

And please stand to the right, because a lot of people will be doing just that!

Is there not an increase in momentum between going up at * 1’ per 1" on a stationary Escalator & going up * 2’ per 1" on a moving one? Or does it cancel because the change in vertical speed is + & - the same amount in total?

*( just keeping the numbers simple for the math )

For starters, temporarily forget work and think about force. Consider an elevator.

When it starts to go up, you feel heavier as it accelerates. As soon as the elevator reaches its max speed, you feel your normal weight. If you were to climb a ladder while in the elevator, it would be no more force (or work) regardless whether the elevator is rising, falling, or motionless, as long as it’s not accelerating.

OK so far? OK, the next step is about work, and back to escalators.

It takes the whole system (you plus escalator motor) the same amount of work to get your body weight from bottom to top, regardless of how much work you do and how much the escalator does. (For now I’m ignoring the effort you expend standing still or jogging in place or whatever. Just looking at the work obtained from the system.)

If you do no work at all, the escalator motor does it all. If you hoof it, you end up doing some portion of the work. If the escalator motor is off, you do all the work. In all cases, same total of work (or, more specifically, work output).

That’s true even if the escalator is going down. However, if the escalator is going down so fast you can barely keep up (trying to go up), obviously, you’ll burn more calories (and “do more work”) to get to the top. There’s no difference in total work output of the system, but you wasted a lot of effort in inefficient motions. To this extent, sbunny8 is clearly correct.

But let’s ignore that too, because we’re talking about two relatively efficient cases: walking up a stopped escalator versus walking up a moving escalator (moving in the desired direction).

The power required to get started on the moving escalator is greater, for the same reason you feel heavier when an elevator starts. But once you’re going, the power requirement is the same whether the escalator is moving or not. When you get off at the top, you get that difference in power back, so that’s a wash.

The difference is you get to the top more quickly on the moving escalator, so it takes YOU less work. (Work = power * duration)

Originally the OP was comparing stairs versus escalators. It’s better to compare a moving escalator versus a stopped one, to discount differences in effort due to the riser height. If the OP thinks that it’s more work to walk up the moving escalator, I believe that’s a mistaken impression, for the reasons cited above. It takes more power to get started, but after that the power requirement is the same, and the duration is shorter, so it’s far less work.

And I’m pretty confident that the power is the same, because we don’t feel heavier in an elevator, once it gets to full speed, even the really fast ones. Chronos knows this because he understands physics. It would have been my first guess, but I’m far less confident of my grasp of physics!

Why are you just standing there? It’s an escalator, not an amusement park ride! :smiley:

Thanks for the answers everyone!

I think touting your business in this forum is considered a no-no.

Only the wind resistance. If the escalator is going 100 mph, you’d have a really hard time trying to walk faster, even if it was on level ground like a moving sidewalk. You’d have to hang onto the rail just to keep from being blown off. At standard department store escalator speed, the wind resistance is negligible and at walking speed, the delta would also be negligible.

Even on a slow bicycle, you have to keep pedaling on level ground, to defeat your wind resistance, which is enough to slow you down.

IIUC the difference in power when you get off the top is available, but you don’t recover it. In fact, you have to expend effort to decelerate by contracting your leg muscles.

That’s a good point that I missed - you are going to be taking fewer steps on a moving escalator, so overall, the total amount of effort is going to be less.

If the problem is phrased “what takes more effort for the person - twenty steps on a staircase or twenty steps on a moving escalator?” I suspect the answer is the moving escalator, because the person has to accelerate up to the escalator speed, and then decelerate at the top. But going from step to step costs the same.

Regards,
Shodan

For modest speeds and large numbers of steps, the difference in effort associated with the start/stop events becomes relatively negligible.

Certainly, but it is still there.

Regards,
Shodan

Walking up a stationary escalator is more difficult that normal stairs because of the higher steps.

I imagine that one would have to take fewer steps to complete a flight on a rising (upward) escalator, more steps to complete a flight on a stationary escalator, and many more (possibly infinite) to complete an upward flight on a downward escalator. To answer spirit of the posted question properly, one should compare effort with same number of steps.