And, as ever, you have no idea what you’re talking about.
But besides that, here tomndebb and I were, engaging in a nice, friendly little round of gigging each other, and you have to come along and drop a turd in the punch bowl.
In my day women never did shit like that. 
Have you been peeing in the dog’s water bowl again?
See, I thought a decent guy would pay for dinner because 1) he wants to, 2) he’s trying to treat his date to a good time, and 3) he’s trying to impress her.
If I thought a guy was paying to take me out because of what society mandates, he wouldn’t get a second date. He probaby wouldn’t even be allowed to finish the first.
My husband has turned the whole toilet seat thing around on me. He wants to have the lid put down, too. Arrrrgh.
What are you talking about? Aren’t you 20, unemployed, and live at your mom’s? Who the fuck do you take out to dinner?
Ah, so a guy should want to buy you dinner. Understood. Don’t worry, we wouldn’t even be going on the first.
Yeah, because 20 year olds don’t go out on dates. And I haven’t always been unemployed, thanks. Haven’t always lived with my mom, either. Did your post make you feel better? Did you get it all out? You might want to get a few more in.
I think if you’re going to join in, you should at least know what you’re talking about. Join the world of adult dating, *then *share your opinion, that’s all.
:rolleyes:
I’ve been on more than enough dates to talk about dating. Get over yourself.
I’ve been paying for dinners and outings for as long as I’ve been dating. Mostly it’s because the guys I date made a lot less than me (or were flat out unemployed). Or, the one time I dated a rich guy, I paid about half the time just to prove I wasn’t a gold-digger. Of course, first dates were always paid by the guy - because they were nice. And occasionally when they had the dough they’d buy dinner.
But my reasoning was pretty much that I had the money, and if I didn’t want to eat at McDonald’s (someplace I could go by myself) I’d just pay. It’s fun to go out and try new places, and expensive places, so it made no difference to me.
ETA: I’m 31, by the way.
Why do you think in society the man (almost) always pays for the first few dates, if not because society mandates it? “He wants to” means, he wants to because society tells him real men pay for the introductory dates.
“2) He’s trying to treat his date to a good time” They could do the same things just as fun if they were splitting the cost of the date, the same dinner and activities.
Men are paying because they have always been expected to. That said, it is slowly dying out because the SOCIETAL MANDATE that a man must pay for the dates is dying out, probably as income disparity goes the opposite way.
I for sure wouldn’t “enjoy” going out of my way to pay for a date if my culture hadn’t told me that that’s just what a man does…as-is, since I was raised this way it DOES give me pleasure to pay for the first few dates, because I am supposed to. BTW I have had girls pay for our first few dates as well, and let me tell you it was NICE.
This reminds me of my friend who is from taiwan, and he tells me in chinese culture you FIGHT to be able to pay the check. This is bizarre to me, but I sure enjoy getting free meals everytime we hang out. Obviously, he gets enjoyment out of paying because he grew up in a culture where that was expected. I didn’t, thus I don’t think that way…just like I wouldn’t enjoy paying for the first bunch of dates unless I was raised to.
Not really. There used to be an expectation that people get married, husband’s primary focus is career and making money for the family while the wife wants to focus on making a home and looking after kids. That’s not to say either focus was exclusive of other pursuits. I mean even today, there are plenty of middle aged women who just want part time jobs so they can spend more time at home or do volunteer work.
Its scary enough that women are achieving college degrees at a 50% higher rate than men. It can only mean two things.
Women are truly smarter than men and sooner or later this will lead to prejudice against men.
Men are getting lazy given that today’s multi-tasking woman is willing to take on an ever greater share of the burden in raising a family. Educational achievement does not happen to those who are lazy.
Sort of makes me think back to those hunter gatherer societies where the women not only make the meals and raise the kids, they have to haul the water, build the shelters, reap the produce and take out the garbage, while the menfolk are out fishing.
Its not fair, and I am wondering how women as a whole who are fed up with doing all the work are going to get a fair share from their low income husbands.
Timely discussion – a report released today indicates that young, childless women earn more than men do anyway…
Report here.
That’s exactly what the OP said. We’re all aware.
Uh, yeah. If he’s asking me out on a date, that’s what I’m going to assume. What should I be assuming?
Or the education system favors females, or is hostile to males, or any number of other explanations.
If I asked you on a date it’s because I want to spend time with you in a romantic setting, not because I’m eager to spend cash on you. And if you accept my proposal it’d hopefully be because you’d also like to spend time with me in a romantic setting, not because you’re eager to have cash spent on you.
And this ties in perfectly with my point earlier- most of us in the adult dating world expect to spend money on dates, and to have money spent on us. That’s not gold-digging or using people- most people take turns after a relationship has become established. It’s customary, if the man initiates a first date, to, yes, want to take a woman out to dinner. And it’s customary for the woman to assume that, since* he* invited her, that he’s paying. That’s normal. That’s the real world.
It works like this.
Guys are told that if they want to get meet and mate with women, they have to be willing to take the initiative and ask some women out.
Etiquette says that it is poor form to invite someone out to an exclusive event and then expect them to pay. So the person who does the asking, does the paying.
Call me crazy, but if a guy asks me out a date, I’m gonna assume it’s because he wants to take me out on a date. Unless he’s planning for us to go to his place to watch TV and eat some left overs, that implies some money is going to be spent. If he doesn’t want to pay for my dinner even though he’s asked me asked out to dinner, he is not someone I want to waste my time on. I can pay for my own dinner, take myself to the movies on my own dime, and enjoy my own company. If he is so “all that” that his company would be an improvement to my own and I need to pay for the privilege of hanging out with him, then I’d probably would have asked him out already.
A smart man who wants to date an attractive woman is not going to make the task harder on himself by expecting the object of his desire to shell out money she otherwise wouldn’t have spent, just so she can get to know him. Most women want smart men. You do the math.
Sure. But if he expects her to pay her own way, he’s saying he cares more about saving money than ensuring she’s enjoying his company. I’m mainly talking about a first, second, or third date scenario here. After a relationship has been established, it’s more than reasonable to expect taking turns.
How does a woman wearing flattering clothes and makeup “impress” a man? It makes her more attractive to him. Generosity and selflessness are attractive traits. Stinginess and keeping score are definitely not.
A man who balks at paying for a $40 meal is about as impressive as a woman who shows up on date wearing a tight booty shorts and 3 miles of cellulite. Call it unfair if you want, but it’s reality. Men are judged by their means, and women are judged by their looks.
If a woman asked you out and refused to pay for your dinner, you’re perfectly entitled to lose interest in her. You’d have that right even if she paid. This has always been the case. That so many men haven’t ever exercised that right doesn’t change this. I know, I know, men worry they would never get laid if they demand to be wine and dine them. Well I worry that if I let the hair on my upper lip go unwanxed, no man will want to sleep with me. Let’s cry ourselves a river.
I do know women who expect men to pay for everything. One girl went on vacation with her boyfriend, demanded to stay in a place with a/c and hot water (which rules out most sorts of budget accommodation on th beach) and THEN expected her boyfriend to pay for it all. WTF.
But most grownups realize that nice dinners don’t grow on trees. Sometimes, you know, it’s going to mean expending a little effort and money. If you don’t want to spend the money, and are only doing so because you think society mandates it, then you really shouldn’t be dating. No one is forcing you to participate.