If you aren’t one of the early ones on the subway here (I’m in LA), it can be hard to fight your way to the priority seats.
OP, I forgot to mention the other reason a walker might be useful. You can get the rolling kind (so you don’t have to pick it up by the handles) that have a seat on them, so even when there isn’t a seat available, it might help you get through those commutes without so much discomfort and frustration. I do understand why it wouldn’t be anyone’s first choice, though.
These are London buses and I get them at irregular times, so it’s not likely I’d get a regular driver. I have wondered about asking the driver (they even see that I have a freedom pass so know that I definitely have a disability) but the logistics of the bus would make it pretty difficult for them to intervene.
I’m afraid a walker wouldn’t work either. Leaning on my hands also hurts a hell of a lot due to the swelling. Plus the shoulder problem, of course.
The rolly kind do sound especially handy, I have to say, but not for me right now.
They are on the bus, but I’m too slow to get on the bus first. Despite what you’ve heard about English queuing, in London this is mostly not true - it’s a scramble for the bus. When I said people were literally running for these seats it wasn’t hyperbole.
On the tube the seats are the ones nearest the door, but at busy times, which on my line is most of the day, there will be about three or four squashed-in people between the door and the seat (well, more than that - I’m talking about right next to the seat only). This is one of the reasons that sometimes a seat that’s offered to me is stolen by someone else - getting through those people takes time.
Because I can’t hold the bars, I can’t stand nearer the seats. I don’t really fault the tube passengers in this situation and like I said I’m really not sure if there’s anything that can be done. Still, it is always the youngest, fittest people (compared to the others in the carriage) in those priority seats - it’s quite remarkable, and I suggest to any London commuter that they make their own informal survey too.
When I get on the tube at quieter times and a lot of people get on with me (it’s a busy stop) often again I will miss out on seats because the other passengers can move faster than I can, but this time they can still definitely see me. They rush right past my shambling form to get the priority seats. They see me tottering towards a seat and that’s their cue to take it. That is on them.
Sorry for the long posts; I could make them shorter, but then I’d just have to answer more questions about the bits I left out.
(I’m a she, by the way).
Didn’t you read my post? I only expect people to see I’m disabled if they can see me moving around, when it actually is fairly obvious.
And didn’t I already talk about the problems with “speaking up for myself”? I admit that some of it is pure fear of embarrassment, but my main journey is at rush hour on a very busy line. Even changing job wouldn’t help because they’re all in the same direction.
I have considered making a badge like the baby on board ones, but I can’t think of anything short enough to be comprehensible. Crip on board fits, but probably wouldn’t go down well. 
Others have suggested actually wearing a baby on board badge, but IME they only work when you have a visible bump and obviously only when you can get close enough to the seats for people there to see you.
I’m not trying to bag on you, because you have a lot more health problems than I do and I’m sure it’s really hard to get around. But you’re making a lot of excuses for why you can’t do anything. If you just wanted to vent, well OK. But a light walker with wheels that has handles right at your hands’ height from the ground would be an ideal solution to this problem. You don’t have to lean, you can just put your hands on it and walk and it will roll right along in front of you. And you could sit on it when you can’t get a seat on the bus, although I think the chances of people giving up their seat for you will greatly increase if you’re pushing a walker.
No, it wouldn’t be ideal. I’m not sure why you think swollen hands with no grip would make it ideal for me to use something that requires my hands. Honestly, if I could use one, I would.
And yes, I did want to vent, to an extent - I did say that. I didn’t ask for advice except for the wording of a sticker. Not that I mind people giving advice nicely, like others above.
This isn’t a competition about who’s more disabled.
Okay, thanks.
So when you’re not, it’s not obvious. And of course people on a busy train often don’t notice other people’s disabilities.
I didn’t see where you said you try to solve it by simply saying “excuse me, but…” Why not just do that?
In my experience, even when someone is walking and moving, other may not be able to observe that because they are in a crowd, or reading a book, etc. So sometimes perhaps you’ll just have to speak up.
Bullshit. You can’t tell everyone who is disabled just by looking at them. That’s impossible.
I don’t know what your problem is, but I don’t really care.
I read your post more closely.
You do seem to know that not everyone notices you or your disability, either because it’s not always obvious or they are distracted. And I don’t think you can assume everyone is just pretending not to notice.
This is no different from any other problem on a bus that can be solved with a simple “excuse me.” Happens all the time. I have to ask people who can’t see me to move so I can get past them and off the bus or train. That’s life.
And if you’re saying you’re shy, well, perhaps people who wonder if you want their seat are shy too. If it’s hard to tell a stranger you need a seat, presumably due to disability, imagine how hard it is to ask a stranger whether she would like a seat, presumably because she has a disability? That’s even more awkward. It’s a bit like asking “are you pregnant?”
Have a little faith in other people. I’ll bet most will be fine giving up their seats when asked. If not, the rest of the passengers will probably shame them into it anyway.
I can’t get close enough to say “excuse me.” I would have to shout across a train and then struggle the wrong way through the crowds. This is the third time I’ve told you that just speaking up isn’t that easy.
The embarrassment factor is strong too, though. It’s not just me who finds it really difficult to humiliate themselves publicly twice a day, and that is what shouting about your disability on a train would be; I wonder if even you’d do it if you had to? It’s easy to sit at your computer and say “I’d do this…” but real life is always harder.
And no, sometimes it’s not obvious. I’ve said that myself (twice now). I’ve also said I don’t blame people when they can’t see me. When I’m walking and in their line of vision it definitely is obvious though, despite you (who has never seen me) saying it isn’t.
Horseshit. You stand up and say “Please take this seat.” Especially if you’re able-bodied. Even if they are too. Older person, pregnant lady, someone with bags, someone with kids, someone disabled, someone moving slowly. You don’t have to say “Gosh, you’re a crip, here.” You get off your goddamn ass and offer it.
Seriously, you tell SFS to just suck it up and ask, but give others a pass because they’re shy? No. The priority seats are clearly fucking labeled.
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But I didn’t understand why. So if you’re too far to even shout, how can you possibly expect people in the seats to notice you? You’re stuck in a crowd. That’s the problem. I’m not sure what to do about that except try to board first or ask the driver for help or something.
I completely understand. But you don’t necessarily have to say “I have a disability” just “I need a seat” and let them figure it out. I see people do it, and it’s not that big a deal. People understand. They want to help.
All of us, disability or not, will have to learn to do this when we get old and “frail.”
Yes, but that doesn’t solve the problem, since people not seeing you seems to be a big part of that problem.
I think some people may be embarrassed, as I noted, to ask someone if they need a seat, thereby drawing attention to their appearance of disability. It’s just as embarrassing as you asking for a seat. They may not want to embarrass YOU by doing so. So put yourself in their shoes.
I did NOT say that YOUR disability isn’t obvious, I said sometimes some disabilities aren’t obvious in some people. As you note, I have never seen you, madame, and couldn’t possibly know that. If you thought that’s what I meant, rest assured that I did not. However, YOU did say that sometimes it is not obvious when you aren’t walking, so…
You dont’ know shit. You don’t know what you’re talking about. You don’t understand what I’ve said either. I’m talking about when someone isn’t sure if someone is disabled or disabled enough to need a seat. It could embarass that person.
Kind of like you might hesitate to offer someone a seat who looks kind of old, but you’re not sure how old. It would make them feel like they look older than they are. That’s a bit awkward too.
This is subtlety I’m discussing. I’m way ahead of you.
No, I didn’t say that either. Shut up and read more carefully and maybe you’ll get what I’m saying.
Yeah, you’re super subtle. :rolleyes:
If you’re able-bodied, and you’re sitting in a priority seat, you should offer your seat to anyone who even might need it more than you. Once more, since you didn’t catch it the first time: there does not have to be a reason. They do not have to be disabled enough, whatever the fuck that means. You just offer. If they decline, they decline.
Why on earth does this embarrass you? If anything, you should be embarrassed to be sitting in a seat if *anyone *needs it more than you.
Mister “I can’t be fucked to actually read the OP I’m replying to” is bagging on me for not reading carefully? Nice one.
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I don’t expect people to offer me their seats if they can’t see me. This is the fourth time I’ve said so, so I’m not sure why you’re arguing with me about that.
I have never, not once, seen someone ask for a seat on the tube or bus here. If it’s common where you live, then I can see why you’d think it was no big deal.
Offering seats to a pregnant woman can be risky, which is why they made the baby on board badges. The same doesn’t really apply to physical disability, though.
I’m quite serious about trying to think of wording for a baby on board style badge for me (and other people if they wanted one) - if you want to give me advice, you could start there.
I didn’t say I was subtle, I said I’m discussing subtleties.
Let me ask you, since you think you know EVERYTHING - have you ever been in such a seat and offered it to someone?
You’re still not getting the concept. I don’t think you’ve actually interacted with people in this way much. If you weren’t being so rude about it, I might try to explain it further. Most people don’t need further explanation.
Yes. I don’t read posts carefully enough sometimes. And the same applies to you. It applies in this case. The difference is that I haven’t been an obnoxious rude asshole about it. I went back and read more carefully and asked questions of the poster and figured it out. Try that next time instead.
Then why did you even post this? You just want to complain about how people sit down before you do? Well, that happens to everyone, able-bodied or not. You obviously want more than that - you want to find out how to get a seat when you need it. I’m making suggestions.
Yes, it’s common where I live. Most of the time it’s simply someone who needs a seat and nobody noticed them because they aren’t constantly looking up at everyone or were in a crowd. No shame in simply asking for a seat, just like any other polite request. And, as you confirmed in your case, sometimes one can’t tell if someone is disabled or not, so they need to ask. It’s no big deal here. (Also, blind people ask because they can’t see if the seat is empty or not or whether the person sees them, and don’t want to sit on someone’s lap).
Perhaps you should try it. It’s possible that our cultural differences make me not able to offer any further suggestions to you other than that.
Yes, actually, it does apply to people with disabilities too. In fact, if you live in a place where people don’t even speak up and ask for a seat, I can see how it would be equally awkward to ask people who you aren’t sure are disabled whether they need a seat. It goes both ways.
It’s a good idea, but if people can’t see YOU on the bus, how would they see your badge?
I’m not sure if in London those priority seats have the force of law behind them. If not I think its pretty useless. Its basically trying to shame people into having good manners. Its not the best way to do it. If the driver can’t force someone to get up you are still relying on someone’s good nature to obey the suggestion of the sign. I know its that way in some places in the US. The driver won’t even attempt to get involved because he really doesn’t have the authority to. A sign saying you must give up your seat for the disabled or get kicked off the bus with drivers who will enforce it is the only why I see to ensure it happens.
Not sure why that’s relevant, but of course I have. I’ve ridden public transportation most of my life. I avoid the priority seats, and will usually choose to stand instead of sitting in one. If I decide to use one, I’m ready to stand up at a moment’s notice. If I am in a regular seat, and someone else looks like they could use a sitdown, I will offer to stand. Sometimes I will just stand anyway, and if they want the seat, they can have it.
No, I get the concept just fine. You’re wary of causing offence. I get that.
But you’re missing the subtlety in my point. You do not have to provide an explanation for why you’re offering the seat. You do not have to guess at someone’s disability or pregnancy. You do not, in sum, have to make any assumptions or jump to any potentially rude conclusions. You simply say “Here, would you like this seat?”
Oh, you needn’t try to out-patronize me.