You know, I’m in the exact opposite camp. A domestic partnership can (slightly more expensively but it can be done) have all the same legal rights and benefits you list in the OP. (1. Jointly owned property - easy, don’t have to be married; 2. Tax benefits - I think there’s actually a penalty, but I’m not sure about that. Depends on the income of each person; 3. Power of attorney/visitation rights - you can do that with one quick trip to an attorney’s office and not have to be married; 4. Inheritance rights - Make a will, no need to get married; 5. Combined bills/bank accounts - No need for marriage here either.)
I fail to see the point of marriage. Why not just live together and merge finances, like a business partnership? Any children still have all the same legal rights (and whatever name you give them). I look at my gay couple friends’ relationship and note there are no significant differences between them and my straight married couple friends’ relationships. The only difference is the gay couple had to go to a lawyer to get power of attorney and inheritance rights. You can make anyone an insurance beneficiary. You can will your stuff to anyone.
I just don’t get it. I don’t understand why people get married in the first place. Near as I can tell, either people think they must have permission from god to have sex or permission from the state to consider themselves legitimate. I say neither religion nor government has any right to define my relationships for me.
I have friends that put off getting married for years because it there were no tax benefits to being married and it would cost a lot of money in additional taxes if they got married. Filing a joint return is a big advantage if only one person works or there is a substantial difference in income. If both people have roughly equal incomes then they can come out ahead filing as single.
Also if they have a child, then I don’t think there is a rule that prevents one of them filing as head of household and they may both be able to file as head of household if they have two children and each one claims a different child as a dependent.
I also know people that buy houses together and put both names on the title.
You also don’t have to get married to have a joint bank account.
One advantage to being married is being able to use a spouses medical plan, but if they both have medical plans, then there isn’t any advantage.
For me, I don’t think God or State came into my thinking. It was more my peers, I thought, they thought, I wasn’t good enough for him to commit to or some other such nonsense.
In hindsight, I guess I feel silly about why I wanted to marry, but I don’t regret it. We make a decent team, even if we don’t have all that hawt sex we used to have.
I live in Canada where I have all the protections and rights of marriage, just by cohabitating for a given period.
Not married, been together 27 yrs. We both had some commitment issues, so what? Who’s it harming? No one!
Seems silly to pursue it now. We’ve often been told we’re more married than many people with the paperwork! And it’s somewhat true. We feel like, we are never together because we swore to be, in front of God and family, forever. We’re always together because we choose to be. That’s a powerful thing, on it’s own, I think.
I think that for some people, the legal aspects of marriage just don’t mean a whole lot, or may even complicate things. Speaking for myself, though I’ve never been married, the only aspect of marriage that has any weight to me is the idea of a sort of formalized commitment before friends, family, and God and all of that can occur with or without being recognized by the government as such.
For some people, I could quite imagine that there are others who are of a similar mind except they may not even care about what friends or family or God thinks and they only care about what they think about their relationship. Or they may even see the idea of formalizing a commitment as putting some kind of artificial construction onto their relationship that just doesn’t really fit them and just creates more stress and so their happy with a perpetual status quo and don’t see any point in changing it when they’re happy now.
I think still others may not do it because they have different ideas about what marriage means. I’ve known some non-religious people who view it as a religious institution and so don’t have interest in it. I’ve known others who see it as an antiquated tradition and don’t want parts of that. There might be others who are jaded about the whole thing because of how their parents’ relationship may have been. And I’m sure there’s tons of other reasons to have a negative view of it. So, I can definitely see that outweighing any potential legal benefits.
El Hubbo and I got married mainly for familial reasons - portions of both his and my sides of the family are fairly religious and conservative, and it would have been awkward and made life harder for each of us to not marry. Since the piece of paper puts their minds at ease, it was an easy choice to make. It was only after about 5 years that we realized it automatically has benefits for us, too (POA, all that stuff).
A friend of ours is in a long term, not-married relationship. They’ve a house together, cars, the whole nine yards. They make it work, and for all intents and purposes, don’t look any different from the other married couples I know. (Indeed, I usually forget that they’re not married!) I find it completely understandable.
That’s one of the big reasons why my husband and I got married. Making those vows in front of everyone who matters to us was, for me, the most meaningful part of the whole thing. We will hit hard times, and I like the idea of all these people who love us being there to remind us of the love and commitment we have, and to help us remember how important it is to work past the bumps in the road.
That, and we’re from different countries and keeping the relationship going under the constant concern that they may not renew my work visa next year was a little stressful.
I have plenty of friends (mostly back in Quebec) who have chosen not to bother with official marriage, and it’s working out fine for them so far. I think married couples are actually the minority in Quebec - everyone’s just “conjoint”, which I think is like a common law marriage.
Because getting a lawyer to set up beneficiary/POA/inheritance stuff costs a hell of a lot more than a marriage license. A gay co-worker of DoctorJ’s did all that with her partner about the time we got married–they paid as much in legal fees as we did to have a really cool party with our loved ones and spend a few days in New Orleans. And we could have dispensed with the party and just paid the $30 for the license if we wanted. I don’t Og or society to give me permission to have sex or make me feel legitimate, but it’ll be a cold day in Hell before I spend a few grand on something I can get as good or better a result from for $30.
This is an argument I’ve never understood. There is no legal obligation to stay married. There is in fact a very sizable portion of the legal system devoted to dissolving marriages. You do have to go through the legal system to get divorced, true, but if you’ve mingled finances, bought property together, and/or had kids…you’re probably going to wind up with lawyers involved anyway if you split up.
Well, why not get married, if the alternative involves lawyers and contract signing and the legal reprecussions as essentially the same? I’m not understanding why you don’t see the point of marriage. “Getting power of attorney and inhertance rights” is the point. Just because you can accomplish this without getting married doesn’t mean marriage is pointless, right? So why not get married.
Naturally, I can’t speak for anyone but myself, but my wife and I decided to get married after some years of dating and some more years of living together. Why? Because we were pretty sure of our relationship, were planning to buy our first apartment together and saw some children materializing somewhere in the future. Marriage secured both parties property-wise in case of a breakup, ditto WRT death/inheritance, and - quite importantly - secured my rights WRT future children. We could have gotten the same result by doing a lot of paperwork, but a wedding license was one paper to secure it all, and we were sure we didn’t overlook anything important.
IMO, marriage secures the father’s rights towards the children (no, even in the 21st century, dads don’t have as good protection as moms do when it comes to custody) and the economy of a stay-at-home spouse in case of a divorce/breakup. In the simplest possible way. No expensive lawyers, no complicated hoops to jump through.
I found out afterwards that it did have an emotional impact on us, more than I had expected. And it was actually a very nice party that fine day more than twenty years ago
I’ve been with my SO for six years and we’ve been living together for four. We don’t have or want children, we prefer to keep finances separate, we don’t have any interest in owning property and neither of us are religious. Both of us are children of ugly divorces. All of this equals a lack of interest in getting married.
I also refuse to act like many people in my early-30s peer group: That marriage is just another box to check off Life’s To-Do list. I’m going to three weddings in the next six months – all three of the couples have been together less than two years and two of the three weddings are based on an ultimatum on the woman’s part. “We get married or we break up.”
So - you ask just to insult us? I mean, I get tired of this sort of stuff on the Dope. People ask a legitimate question, and then when we answer, we get insulted.
I don’t ask you to care. I care, and that’s enough. I don’t care if you don’t care. I don’t know why you care even enough to state you don’t care.
It’s my life. If I want to never get married, I am pleased as punch I live in an era and country where it’s fairly acceptable for a woman never to get married and never have children. This is a blessing. I am not going to get married “just because”, noway, nohow.
Slow your roll. All I did was call your answers ‘lame’ as in:
The SDMB ain’t a place were we sing kumbaya and embrace our inner goddess. ‘Lame’ as a threshold for insult around must make it difficult.
It’s not just because. There’s a myriad of reasons, but let’s talk SS benefits for one. If your husband dies today, you are not eligible for his SS benefits. If you were married, you would be. That’s potentially tens of thousands of dollars, and maybe even 100k. That’s a steep price to pay, for little obvious benefit.
I don’t know anything about Australian law, but I’m guessing going down to the courthouse and getting married would have been cheaper than having POAs and wills drawn up.
Specifically, you live in Ontario, which grants such rights. (Ontario lawyers, Muffin maybe: is this what a “common law marriage” refers to, or is it that Ontario grants the rights of marriage to cohabitating couples by statute?) It isn’t like that in all Canadian provinces. In fact:
It emphatically isn’t like a common-law marriage, but that is a popular belief, so the government has even put out ad campaigns telling us that in Quebec, if two cohabitating spouses split up, none of them has any recourse. We’ve had a high-profile court case recently where a billionaire’s former spouse was suing him for alimony. I think she lost her case, because there simply isn’t any statutory legal protection for unmarried couples in Quebec. (Nor is there any common law marriage, since Quebec isn’t a common law jurisdiction.)
Nevertheless, as you point out, it’s actually quite common for couples never to marry. My parents aren’t married, and while they may not be the cutest little couple ever, they’re still living together. And I’m nearly 30. It’s probably due to cultural factors: marriage was seen as inextricably tied to the Catholic Church, and traditionally a rather sexist institution as well, so when Quebecers rejected the former influence of the Church, they stopped getting married as well. I’d also add that the absence of legal protections to unmarried couples ties well with the more modern concept of a couple not as a single entity together forever, but as two still independent people, with their own lives and careers, living together for a certain period which may be long but isn’t necessarily the rest of their lives. This, I think, reflects the values of Quebec society. And probably of other societies as well, which explains why many people opt not to marry.
The fact that none of this seems rational to you sort of seems to underscore my thought: marriage, for many people, is a symbolic act. It’s not merely a series of steps designed to make cohabitation more efficient. It is emotional, and cultural, it affects personal identity, it’s a rite of passage, it’s history. And the history of marriage, both in the grand scheme of things and in a person’s own family, will color his or her perceptions of what marriage means. That’s what I think you don’t get. Marriage means something, and that something could be wildly different for every person.
My father and step mother were together for 35 years. When he was diagnosed with cancer and it was clear he would die soon, they got married double quick. So she could inherit his money, have access to his pension, etc. But it made me wonder why they’d been so long about it. What if he’d been killed in a freak accident and they didn’t have time to do the last minute marriage? She’d be screwed then.
Ok lets. Why are people so excited about money like this? One should always make sure that you can live by yourself otherwise you’re over extending. Even so a divorce, with children, can cost close to 100k as is, per person. That of course depends on where you live, but I wouldn’t be surprised if by the time everything is all said and done and my children turn 18 if it costs me a lot more then that. Just getting my ex out of my house, which I used my money to buy and I lost 100k in value I still had to pay my ex 10k when she left me.
In the grand scheme of things I will keep more money by not getting married then ever getting married again and getting divorced. Every time I’ve seen someone get divorced there is a ton of money lost in lawyers, selling of homes and everything else. There is no monetary incentive to get married, especially for social security. Quite frankly it’s ‘lame’ to want to get married just for some possible extra security until you start to draw the money anyway.
