Not really seeing the sexism in “It’s My Party”; besides, Lesley Gore also sang “You Don’t Own Me”, which was basically an early feminist anthem. I can sort of somewhat see “Jolene” as being sexist, but Dolly Parton doesn’t exactly have a lot of misogynistic stuff in her catalog. These are mostly pretty tame examples compared to the “Suck my cock” type lyrics in a lot of hard rock, in any case.
Both songs are examples of the boyfriend skating while the singer goes after the rival. NOT anywhere near some of the examples mentioned earlier, but the three I listed were the only ones I could remember from a compilation disc I once jokingly made for my wife.
If you think that calling your lover “woman” is outstandingly sexist I really wonder if you know what sexism is.
I’m getting that vibe from almost all the material here.
Even with “Givin’ the Dog a Bone”, all that I can see that’s sexist is that the writer is, arguably, calling a woman a dog. The rest of it just seems like a description of consensual oral sex. Even the description of the woman as somewhat plain is just descriptive, not at all sexist.
Is any description of male sexual pleasure inherently sexist nowadays? Men can’t describe their life experiences without also describe what the the woman may be feelings in depth or else it’s sexist? :dubious:
The Rolling Stones and Beatles stuff seems to be the only genuinely sexist material presented here.
But are the songs sexist? The best case would be “Where is the Life that Late I Led?,” but that’s counteracted by “Tom, Dick, or Harry,” “I Hate Men,” and especially “Always True to You in My Fashion,” all of which have the woman being portrayed as being strong and in charge.
“I’m Ashamed the Women Are So Simple” would qualify a sexist, but, on balance, the songs in the musical treat both men and women about equally.
Early in his career Eminem was considered extremely sexist and misogynistic. Now he is rap royalty.
And if ZZ Top songs are not obvious enough, the videos drive the point home with a sledge hammer
This was precisely my reaction too.
And The Beatles sexism is confined to only about two or three, mostly relatively “minor” (not particularly popular of frequently played) songs. With The Stones, however, it is pervasive and sometimes quite extreme.
Incidentally, I do not disagree with your main point, but do you really think there is anything new about stigmatizing expressions of male heterosexual feelings and desires as “sexist” It has been going on, rarely challenged, at least since the early seventies.
In the early days of rock, there was no concept of “sexism.” Yes, women were considered second class, but it was not seen as “wrong.”
This thread is a good example of presentism–applying the standards of the present to the acts of the past. It is never correct.
How about Billy Joel’s “She’s Always a Woman”? I think there was even a hate thread for it once.
My old roommate used to refer to that as “The Geritol Song” due to lyrics such as “Oh–she takes care of herself.”
Yes, the ZZ Top fellows are definitely sexually attracted to attractive women! Stone them!
… wait … they’re already very stoned … guess somebody took care of that for us!
If you think it’s not sexist, I’d wonder the same about you. I can think of no instance in which I referred to my SO as “woman” where it wouldn’t sound condescending and piss her off. But maybe it’s an age thing - we’d both be grossed out by the term “lover”, as well.
There are songs about male sexual pleasure - Crowded House’s “When You Come” is the first that springs to mind - that don’t treat the woman as an object that exists solely for the male’s pleasure, which is most definitely the case in many of the hard rock songs mentioned. And if you don’t see why describing a woman performing oral sex on you as “plain” (much less as a dog) is sexist (hint: why would you feel the need to bring up her physical appearance at all, much less to disparage it?), I don’t know what to tell you.
Then again, I shouldn’t be surprised some people are getting defensive about the topic - there’s always been a disturbing strain of sexism on these boards, or at the very least an adolescent male mindset regarding gender/sexual issues.
Except a lot of the worst examples (in hard rock, at least) are from the late '60s through the '70s, at the height of the women’s liberation movement, so I’m not really applying a standard that was foreign to people at the time.
It might depend on the song, but I don’t think of Led Zep’s use of “woman” is sexist, either. I’m thinking of Plant moaning “Oh woman, wo-mahn” in Babe I’m Gonna Leave You sounds more pained and plaintive than sexist.
It seems to me that many of the times they use “woman” it’s like they’re describing the object of their affection as a sort of manifestation of the Platonic ideal “Woman”.
Admittedly, “I got a little woman and she won’t be true” throws all of that out the window.
I’d love to join the debate about whether normal male sexuality is inherently sexist but first I must express my amazement that we’ve gone 34 posts without mentioning He Hit Me (It Felt Like a Kiss) by the Crystals.
Yeah, I can see what you’re saying - I guess this specific example is really a case of imposing today’s morality onto an earlier time, though it still does make me cringe, much like hearing someone use the term “old lady” to describe their SO, even if there’s no disrespectful intent.
Led Zep isn’t a good example for that though - they were famous for essentially adapting and adopting old blues or folk songs.
For example, “Babe I’m Gonna Leave You”, mentioned upthread, was originally written as a folk song by Anne Bredon, later recorded by that noted sexist ( 
) Joan Baez. Led Zep then recorded it - eventually, paying royalties to Bredon.
Even some of the stuff they wrote themselves, like “Hey hey what can I do”, was written deliberately in the same vein as a traditional blues song. Of course, many of their songs are straight-up traditionals or blues tunes - like “gallows pole” and “when the levy breaks”.
It isn’t surprising that their lyrics reflect the social mores of an earlier time!
I can think of lots of individual songs, but when you take a group or artist’s entire catalog as a whole… well, I was going to pop in and nominate the Stones myself. I used to love them (but it’s all over now) but I started really paying attention to lyrics and the only song I can stand to listen to is Gimme Shelter. Everything else makes me want to throat punch Mick Jagger.
I find the term “old lady” or “old man” to refer to a person’s SO more insulting than a guy calling his female SO “woman”, because in the first case you’re calling your SO “old”. No one wants to be considered old before their time.
But what’s insulting- or sexist- about “woman”? Is my wife being sexist when she calls me her “man”?
Seems to me it’s a matter of usage - “my man” is a term of endearment, whereas addressing your SO as “woman” instead of her name (or a pet name) implies disrespect; I always associate it, rightly or not, with phrases like, “Woman, get me a beer!” or “You’d better watch your mouth, woman.” Do you not think it would be off-putting if your wife started a sentence with “Male…” rather than your name?