I’ve heard that pepper foam is more effective because of the clinging action as well as the fact that the chemical agent is contained within the foam and won’t disperse into the air (potentially affecting you as well). You might look into that as a possibility.
Thanks, great idea!
I used to study at a dojo/self defense school (multi-art, based more on a practical application of Kenpo/Wang Chun/Jujitso/boxing than ring sparing; think more Krav Maga than Tae Kwon Do) where we did volunteer assertiveness/self-defense classes for women’s shelters and defense groups. One of the demos was on the effectiveness of OC spray. The instructor would give a large size 10% cannister (the kind with a pistol grip) to a woman with instructions to spray at his face and charge her from 30 feet. Only once out of about a dozen times I witnessed this was he not able to get the woman in a bear hug, and then only because the woman clubbed him on the temple with the can and dodged out of the way.
Now, you can argue this wasn’t a realistic scenerio–that the attacker was prepared and knowledgable about the effects of the spray–but on the other hand the woman was far more prepared and had a larger, easy-to-use spray can rather than the small, hard to orient minicans most people carry. On the whole, I think it illustrates the point that OC can be effective in some situations, but you’d better be prepared to back it up with something stronger.
If you don’t think your wife is in any real danger and that she simply wants something to make her feel safe, by all means, buy her a can of pepper spray. If you think she may seriously be threatened, I wouldn’t rely on it. Frankly, the best non-contact defense device short of a firearm you can readily carry is something like this I carry one of these regularly and actually used it once to disorient a bar patron who was preparing to come to the aid of a rowdy friend by clubbing one of the bar staff engaged in removing said friend with a beer bottle. 100 lumins and an armlock later, he followed his buddy out into the back alley. It could also do some serious contusion damage if put to the task, though in a situation I felt myself to be in real danger I’d probably elect for the better part of valor.
The “‘Stand your ground’ law”? Is that a legal term? 'Cause in my book it ranks right up there with “Castle Doctrine” as legal nonsense promulgated by people repeating things they’ve heard other people say.
Carrying a firearm, even in a state with a nondiscretionary concealed carry state, is a significant responsibility and liability, not to be undertaken lightly. Responsible carry requires training, knowledge of the law regarding carry and use in public, and heightened awareness. Since the OP indicates that his wife has a disaffection for firearms anyway, it’s a nonissue. Personally, if I felt I needed to carry a weapon for defense at work I’d be inclined to start looking for new employment. It’s one thing to keep arms at hand because you live in a dangerous environment or because you’ve selected a profession that is inherently hazardous, but if the working conditions are so incidentially hazardous that I needed to be armed, there’s something far wrong with where I’m at and what I’m doing.
Stranger
I’m coming at this from a different perspective, as the mother of an autistic/special needs child. I wouldn’t want pepper spray in the same room with my kid for one minute, because of the chance that my kid could get hold of it and use it. That was my first thought, as my kid tends to find all sorts of weird stuff to cause trouble. (He’s only a preschooler, but very, um, creative.)
I suppose if she could secure it well enough, I might be a little more comfortable, but if it’s that secured, I doubt she could get to it easily enough to use it for her own protection against an attacker.
Just something to consider…
Yes, well, before we shove firearms into the hands of someone who has active distaste for them ( see the OP’ers own comments… ), it is well worth pointing out that unless you are not only a very very seasoned shooter, but also very very experienced in dealing with suddenly dangerous situations where you are compelled to use your firearm to kill someone ( yeah, kill. Search for the threads on shooting to wound… they’re a doozey ), you run the real risk of pulling a gun and then being killed with your own weapon.
The pepper foam sounds like an excellent solution. I’d suggest you talk to local law enforcement to make sure she is allowed to carry it. It is not legal in all states.
And, what Miss Gypsy said.
Cartooniverse
You need a new book.
Or, if you can spare the time from gratuitous snark, you might try googling it yourself.
Even if she were armed, would she be allowed to take a gun into a client’s home?
Well, she doesn’t really want pepper spray, she wants to feel more safe in shady neighborhoods. I second the self-defense classes.
This is a law that was recently passed (about a year ago) by Jeb Bush. In simple terms, it gives the person the right to defend themselves if they feel threatened, without the fear of prosecution. Someone breaks in your house, you do what you want to do. If someone charges at you and you feel you are threatened, you can defend yourself. If someone comes at your car with a bat, you can shoot them with a gun. So if my wife feels threatened by a guy coming at her, she can act first, think later.
I definitely see your point. But since you care about your child, I would also assume 1) That you would find a way to TAKE your child to see the SLP in the office if you could, 2) You would not put the SLP in an uncomfortable situation, i.e. allow your husband/boyfriend/brother/boyfriends friend/keep going to walk around without a towel ogling the SLP/OP/Other therapist, who is trying to help your autistic child.
Also, it would not even be in sight or reasonable reach of the child my wife was working with. And to take it a step further, she would only bring it with her to select houses/neighborhoods.
Well, she is not taking a gun to anyones house, as she is scared of guns, and I would not let her have one unless she was 100% comfortable and trained in the use and dangers of firearms. But to answer your question, I believe in the State of Florida you are allowed to carry a gun anywhere (with legal exceptions to prisons, schools, etc.) as long as you have it concealed and have a permit.
I don’t know why I did not think of the self-defense classes. Our local Y offers them, and it is within short driving distance of our home. But perhaps a combination of pepper foam and self-defense classes?
Oh I’m sorry, did you mean the statute revisions resulting from the passage of Florida House Bill 249 CS - Protection of Persons and Property? Because citing the actual bill and the resultant modified statutes might provide a little more concrete information than a vaguely written, nonspecific Wikipedia citation, which is not, to my knowledge, a legitimate or accepted means to cite statute or caselaw in any court in the US.
Beyond your lack of jurisprudential rigour, however, is the fact that the OP was specifically asking about nonlethal protection methods and you pipe in with the implication that because Florida statutes have an extraordinarialy liberal standard for the use of lethal force a firearm is thus the ideal self-defense tool for all people in all situations. It’s attitudes like yours that give responsible gun owners a bad image.
An excellent idea. The pepper spray is good for what it is, but a good defense class should teach awareness and enhance confidence. Make sure that it involves actual contact, though (i.e. getting to thump on a defender in a RedMan suit) rather than some kind of kickboxing/exercise training. (I have to laugh when I see Tae Bo promoted as some kind of self-defense training. It looks like a good workout, but it doesn’t offer the first thing when it comes to defending against a real attacker.) Form isn’t nearly as important as an emphasis on quick action and a few basic, easily learned moves.
Stranger
Again with the gratuitous snark. Last time I checked, this board ain’t a fucking court. Wikipedia is commonly cited here–and “Stand your ground” is the popular name for that law. Perfectly adequate for my intended purposes. It’s attitudes like yours that give friendly Dopers a bad image.
And it’s attitudes like yours that validate the image of trigger-happy American gun owners.
It took me all of 30 seconds, using a standard Internet search engine, to pull up actual information on the law in question. No big effort, and heck, my formal law training extends no further than reading To Kill A Mockingbird and watching the first few seasons of Law & Order. Your cite (and I use that term in the loosest possible context) is vague and itself doesn’t even reference the bill in question or a credible analysis thereof. If you’re going to pretend to provide information, try to provide some actual content.
Stranger
Sorry, but I don’t work for you. This is probably a good thing, for if I did, you’d need surgery to get my foot outta your ass. Let’s recap, shall we?
I mentioned the popularly called “stand your ground” law. You claimed it did not exist. Rather rudely, too, I might add. Helpful that I am, I provided a quick wiki link, dumbed down enough that you could probably grasp the concept. Then, after your error was revealed, you chose to continue the snarkage, now bitching about me not citing to the actual statute. Again, I’m not in court. Hell, I’m not even in freakin General Questions.
If you want to fight, take this to the pit. I’m working on a 6 hour download at the moment, so I got plenty time to flame you for the entertainment of others. Put up or shut up, spanky. I’m waiting…
Not worth my time. But enjoy yourself.
Stranger
Can’t enjoy myself yet. Still got about 5 hours worth of download to finish. But when it’s done, not only shall I enjoy myself immensely, but I shall also be contributing to the development of online gaming. OK, so it ain’t zactly gonna lead to world peace, but it’s fun for me.
Not to sound like an asshole, but take the bullshit out of this thread please.
Thanks for the information so far…EVERYONE.
Do you know why she’s scared of guns? Perhaps you could help her overcome that fear? Somewhere on Kim du Toit’s blog is his wife’s story of how she was initially scared of guns and overcame her fear.
She believes that having one causes more bad then possible good. I understand her point of view, and respect it. I have a concealed weapons permit and carry one in my car at all times, also. It is something I never pushed, but if she ever showed interest I would be more than happy to bring her to the range.
If both of you are serious about her self protection, don’t screw around… she should have a handgun. Her fear of guns is most likely manifestation of ignorance about guns & shooting. So IMO you should take her to the range and teach her about shooting & guns. If possible, go to a range that allows shooters to rent guns, and have her try out lots of different makes and models.
I strongly recommend against using pepper spray on your “south of the border.”