I don’t see how a realtor (and former underpaid state pol) from Backwater Arkansas can afford to raise 16 children AND build a 7,000 square foot home. We’re talking nutritious meals, good medical and dental care, help with homework, and maybe think about college someday. What about the kid who needs special attention, but gets lost in the shuffle?
When part of a parents’ plan includes their young kids acting as parents, that’s a red flag. And yes, folks 50+ years ago used to have huge families, but times have changed. I’m not saying this is e-vile, but it’s pretty weird and I wonder if Daddy-o has some major control issues. I also wonder about state assistance, denials to the contrary.
From news accounts I’ve read and seen, the kids aren’t taking care of the younger children. They are raising them and are responsible for their upbringing. Big difference.
I saw the documentary on them as well and even went as far to check out their family website. They are DIE HARD Christians, even to the point where there is no television or Internet allowed in their household. I’m not against big families, but it just seemed like the parents were trying to isolate their children from the “non Christian” world. The children don’t really interact with other children except for their own siblings, and obviously they don’t have any sort of outside media to inform themselves on what’s going on in the world. All the children are homeschooled, too. The documentary interviewed the girls and none of them expressed really any desire to be anything more than housewives. Their oldest son, who was 16 at the time, kept talking about how he was looking for a wife. From what I understand about how the family supports themselves is that they own several pieces of property, which I’m sure they rent out in order to support themselves.
I guess it depends on the extent of the older child’s responsibility. There’s a world of difference between being told “You will help little Jimmy bathe, feed him a sandwich and help him with his schoolwork” and “Here, this kid’s your responsibility, don’t bother me any more.” The former is more like babysitting, which is how I interpreted it. The second is being a primary caregiver. Otherwise, I and a lot of people who had working parents were technically not parented by their parents. When I was small I saw my dad 2 hours a day and my mom 4. Bathing, feeding, and homework help came almost exclusively from my nanny or my grandma.
Are children somehow harmed if their mom has help in raising them? This is all wrapped up in that cult of the child thing, and it’s why working mom’s make themselves sick. Here’s society telling them that if anyone other than Mom daipers Wee One’s butt, your kid will be permanently damaged.
Are teenagers entitled to a certain amount of leisure time? For Og’s sake, why? Have you ever been to the mall at 3:30 PM? I’m not even christian, but I’m starting to think idle hands really do make the devil’s work. I bet these people’s kids are better behaved that 90% of the brats running around out there.
I’m not religious AT ALL, nor would I raise my kids like the Diggers choose to, but I really don’t see what the problem is. There’s nothing wrong with kids aspiring to be married or for girls to want to be housewives. It’s not the right path for everyone, but a woman is not less valuable if she chooses not to have a career outside the home. The only problem I would see with this lifestyle is the isolation of the kids, but since they are religious, it’s probable that they go to church, where they’re being socialized with other kids.
I’m not sure what their renting of properties for income has to do with anything. A lot of people do that and it’s a perfectly legitimate way to make money.
You’re assuming a lot there. The documentary didn’t show very nutritious meals–they stocked up on a lot of processed foods at Aldi and tater tot casserole seemed to be a common dish. It didn’t look like they had a garden.
I can’t say anything about medical or dental care, because I don’t know the details. From what I’ve seen and read, I doubt they’re planning on sending any of their daughters to college. The parents expect all of the girls to stay home and have lots of children like their mother. They’re all homeschooled. I don’t know how well the mother is at teaching 16 children of varying educational levels. The oldest son talked about taking college courses online, which would be cheaper than going to a bricks and mortar school.
Sorry for the double-post, I didn’t see this written when I posted.
There’s nothing wrong with a young girl aspiring to grow up to be a housewife. As long as she’s made aware of other options and knows that’s not her only choice. Sadly, I don’t think that’s the case with the Duggers.
As to church, they go to church–in their basement. The documentary did show them socializing with another Quiverfull (those who believe its their duty to have as many children as possible) family, so its not as though the kids are meeting anyone discernable different from themselves.
I just wish the kids had some outside exposure and choice in where they’re going in life. The homeschooling they’re getting probably isn’t preparing them to get into any sort of competitive college (based on what I know of Christian homeschooling), so the parents are probably succeeding in creating an inescapable cycle. (Which, with regards to the right-wing factions of the country, gives me the heebie-jeebies.)
Kids taking care of other kids is not a problem, IMHO. Would you rather they be shipped of to day care? If I hadn’t cooked and cleaned and babysat my brother and sister, I wouldn’t know how to do that stuff today. My sister’s the youngest, so she can’t cook anything at almost 20. She never had to, so she can’t. On the other hand, I got a lot more comfortable with being self-sufficient and independent. I don’t think my childhood was taken away from me. If the Duggers are making their kids miss out on adolescence, it’s because they’re being sheltered from social lives, not because they’re helping the family.
If you think about it, having the older siblings take care of the younger ones is really no different from a single parent family where the older brother or sister have to take care of the younger ones because Mom is working.
Just wanted to let you guys know that, despite living in Arkansas, I only have three children. Oh, and I have several credit cards, but I have paid off one of the cars…so I got that going for me…
Wait a minute–the family has a website, but they don’t allow the Internet into their home?
Hm.
Anyway, to each his own, and kudos for not using social assistance to raise the family. However, it sounds like they are isolating themselves and their children from the rest of the world. I am sure one can be a Christian and hold on to one’s beliefs and values, and still participate in society.
From what I, and apparently Carnac saw, it’s not like the situation you just described. And honestly, when you consider the number of children that these people have, I don’t know how you could get the impression that the kid is just filling in for a bit during the day. Yes, sounds like your gradmother did do most of the parenting. If you’re only spening 1/6 of a day with your child, then you’re not the primary caregiver.
Whoa, rachet it down a bit. Who said that a mom should be the one to take care of the kid all day? I’ve got nothing against working parents. The thing is, most working parents are only gone for 7-9 hours a day. They’re not turning their parental responsibilities over to a teenager the majority of the time. If you don’t think that a parent should at least try to be the, well, parent if possible, then I really don’t know what to say. IIRC, (and since someone else remembers the same thing, I think I do) These people aren’t using their kids to help out occasionally. They’re having them raise the younger ones. And they chose this situation, this isn’t a scenario where the parents have to work to make ends meet. Yes, in my opinion this makes a very big difference. You don’t go out and have a over a dozen children with the intention of letting someone else raise them.
Yes. For the same reason that people of all ages should have free time.
True. The only thing a kid would do with their free time is hang out at the mall (what’s so horrible about that?) or get into trouble. Nothing else good could come of it. As for the manners: That really has nothing to do with whether or not having your older kid take care of the younger kid is a good idea.
I saw the documentary, but wasn’t givent he impression that the younger children where handed over tho the older children to raise. The way the mom put it was that each younger child was given a “buddy” of an older sib. She was the buddy for the newest baby while it was still nursing. The buddy helps the little one with things like brushing teeth and bible study when they get older. All the kids were expected to help around the house, and the chores did seem pretty much gender-delineated. But you can’t say that an older child is taking full-time care of a baby when they’re also doing school, chores and playtime. It seemed clear that the kids played outdoors like normal kids. Each kid also plays an instrument, I believe. As far as nutrition goes, although it may not live up to the exacting standards many of the dopers seem to set, they also never eat fast food, rarely eat out, the children are neither obese nor too skinny. They all appear to be normal, well-scrubbed, well-nourished, straight-toothed children. Eventually the kids will be exposed to the big wide world (during home-schooling they go on field trips, for example).
As parents have found everywhere, you can raise them how you want, but sooner or later they’ll do their own thing. And if that thing is to have stay-at-home spouses and lots of kids, that’s fine, as long as they can support them. And it doesn’t appear that their religious ethic will allow them to sponge off the system. They seem commited to living debt-free and paying their own way. I’d say let them do their thing in peace.
For what it’s worth, when my grandmother had her sixth and seventh babies (twins) she gave one to my mother and one to my aunt and said “these are yours to take care of”. 65 years later and the twins still look up to the sibs that helped raise them, but my mother and aunt never felt put out by it - the were thrilled to have real live dolls to take care of. And they were only 8 and 9 years old at the time. My grandmother had 11 kids and taught school full time, while my grandfather was a cop. Everyone pitched in. That’s what families do.
Large families are still very common in certain cultures. For example, in some Hasidic Jewish communities, families with ten or more children are normal. They seem to be just fine.
Okay, if you saw them in action, and the older kids wern’t spending the majority of the day caring for the younger set then I’ll withdraw my comments in regards to this particular case.
