Hey, I’ve seen on one of those hot rod shows on cable a guy in a race to fully assemble an engine from dissassembled to running…
I MEAN DISSASSEMBLED…as in individual engine MOLECULES…:eek:
Springs, rods, bearings, pistons, seals, gaskets, heads, shafts, ignition…the whole thing…assembled in HALF AN HOUR FLAT, with no power tools to boot.
I stand by my words…if a competent mechanic put his mind to it, he could replace a head gasket in an hour.
Even if it took 8 hours, at $75 and hour that’s $600 and at $100 or a gasket kit, which ought to be ample, your estimate from Pep Boys still seems a little out of line. Like $240.
I had a similar problem on my 94 Escort with 1,000,000+ miles on it. (Leaking radiator fluids.) Pepe Boys wanted to replace the head gasket for $800.00 or more. I took it to the local Firestone people and the mechanice pointed out that my car still had the original radiator hose on it, which he replaced, then he suggested that I consider the cost of a few gallons of radiater fluid a year verses the cost of replacing the head gasket, if that really is necessary. So far (one year later) the car still leaks a little but not as much and I just make sure to always have radiator fluid in the car trunk.
Definitely go to someone you can trust for a second opinion .
Just dropped the car off a little while ago. We’ll see how much the friendly neighborhood mechanic will charge compared to Pep Boys.
Since this is Sunday, the garage is closed. When I put the key in the overnight drop-off envelope, I made sure to tell them that they had replaced my timing belt about two years ago, so this will help to establish that they had done some work in that general area before. I’ll let you guys know what the second estimate turns out to be.
Apples and oranges. Big time. The whole scenario you describe is set up for rapid assembly. It has virtually no relevance to actually repairing a car.
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While there are some simple, uncluttered designs where that could be done, for 99+ percent of real-world situations it cannot be done properly. Dealing with wiring, vacuum and fuel lines, emissions devices, and such things that engines have when they’re in folks’ cars, rather than on a TV show demonstration bench, takes time. Draining and refilling engine coolant take time. Cleaning parts takes time. Inspecting and evaluating the condition of critical parts take time. Opening parts packages and verifying the parts are correct take time. Assembling carefully enough to be sure it’s right, without the benefit of repeatedly practicing assembling just one specific engine, takes time.
I know lots of competent professional mechanics. Some of them are darned fast on stuff they’re familiar with. I’m sure they could perform well in a contrived “race” to twist wrenches. But when it comes to replacing a head gasket, and all that goes with it, in an actual repair situation on a typical modern passenger car, one hour is dreaming, not reality.
If you decide to have the head gasket replaced, make sure they install all new belts (including the timing belt - your car’s probably due anyway) at the same time, since there shouldn’t be any additional labor costs, just (inexpensive) parts.
If you dont repair the car its virtually worthless. If you do repair it at least later you could sell it for some amount of money which mitigates the cost of the repairs now.
Also replacing a head gasket is not all that difficult. Have you thought of attempting it yourself?
Also for reliable used cars look to Honda, Toyota or Nissan. Mazda and Mitsubishi though Japanese are not anymore reliable than American cars. Yes you pay more for them but to me the extra reliability is worth it.
Thanks! I’ll keep that in mind when they call back with the estimate. I did have the timing belt replaced a couple of years and 14,000 miles ago, so I don’t think I have to worry about that, though.
TurboD,
You make a valid point. The thing is, if the second estimate comes in at $900+ dollars then repairing the car for the sake of trade-in or resale value is practically nil. I know that the trade in-value of this care will probably max out at $500 if I’m lucky. Selling it privately I may get $1000 - $1200 on a good day, but I doubt that it will happen in a timely fashion. I hear what you’re saying about Honda and Toyota. This is the first non-Toyota car that I’ve personally owned and driven, and you can tell the difference in quality. I’m certain Honda is the same way.
Anyhow, If I repair the car I will resign myself to driving it around for another year or wait until our financial situation rebounds a little bit before comitting to a different car. If the repairs make me feel confident in the vehicle’s reliability, I may give it to my granddaughter’s mother as a commuter car. It’s definitely much better than what she’s driving now and it’ll save her a fortune in gasoline.
My local mechanic diagnosed the problem as a leaking water pump. He also found that the persistent oil leak the car was experiencing was caused by a bad crank seal. The total repair cost, parts and labor, was a little under $600. Here’s what was done: replacement of the water pump, timing belt, crank seals, and all of the remaining belts while he was in there. Labor was completed in under 5 hours. The car runs like a champ now and I haven’t spotted any leaks on the pavement so far. Time will tell how good the repair actually is, but I really do think that my car is okay now.
While I’m not happy about having to spend $600 like this, I’m definitely more pleased than I would have been if I had spent $940 and failed to have the problem fixed the first time. I just sent a complaint e-mail to Pep Boys about the bad diagnosis that their shop gave to me and I requested a refund for what I payed. I’ll be pleasantly surprised if they honor my request, but if they don’t I’ll be certain that they’re the last place I shop if I need parts or mechanical service.
Thanks for all the input guys and gals!
Anyone can make a mistake, and it would be nice to acknowledge a positive response to your request by continuing to patronize them. But…to miss a leaking water pump, and to falsely ascribe it to a leaking head gasket, speaks VERY poorly of their mechanical competence. I’d be quite leery of trusting them to perform any service.
Just got a call from Engine Guy today and he said they finally found what they needed for my turbo-charged engine. It’s always a bit of trick to get the needed parts for this '89 Dodge, and even the right ones don’t always fit.
It’s a constant challenge, but I think three years of this is enough.
GaryT,
I can see one of two outcomes:
In the first outcome, I accept a complete refund and their sincere apology.
In the second outcome, I ask them politely to kiss my beanbag and tell them that I’ll be sure to tell my friends, family, and co-workers about the fine level of service they can expect at their stores – and I’ll take my business elsewhere.
Vivalostwages,
I know what it’s like to give up on a favorite car, but there are limits to what you can honestly afford to put into an older vehicle. I hope the repairs aren’t too expensive.
It might be easier in the long run to get it fixed up and get rid of it while the getting’s good.
Gotcha, Guy. I am going to make one more repair, then trade it in to Autoland through my credit union and get something pre-owned but much newer.
Jesu Cristo, make the ganglia twitch!
That’s a lot of money.
It’s not that hard to replace a head gasket yourself, if you have a torque wrench, and it’s cheap. However, there’s a reasonable probability that there’s something else, like a crack in the head itself. Machining the head may or may not be necessary.
I went through this with my 62 Chevy Impala some years ago. I found a head at a junkyard (a different model of car, even). $25 for the head, about that much for a new gasket, and it worked fine. The main bearings went a few years later, and I junked it, but that’s a different story.
I wrote the company an e-mail on Tuesday evening and got a call from the service shop manager yesterday afternoon. He apologized for the incorrect diagnosis and said that I could come in and get a full refund. The call was handled courteously and the refund went through without a hitch. I’ll continue to patronize the store, but I’ll think twice before I have them do any service to my vehicles in the future.
epepke,
I think you’re making an apples-to-oranges comparison here. You’re comparing a '62 Impala engine to a 1.8 litre Mitsubishi engine. Both are internal combustion engines, but my engine has a lot more hoses, wires and other junk that isn’t found on the Impala. Also factor in that it’s a front wheel drive car, so the engine is mounted differently in the engine compartment. Add in the fact that I’m not very mechanically clever, don’t have a garage or tools adequate to the task, and frankly don’t want to expend (probably) a lot of hours doing work on my car and having a high possibility of failure when I’m done. Factoring all of that in, I think you can see why I took the car in for repair. The only reason that I took it to Pep Boys was the fact that their garage is open 7 days a week. I thought I could get a fast repair done in time for the work week , but we all saw how that turned out. Anyhow, thanks for the input, but I think you’re a little off base here.
Another vote for IMPOSSIBLE!!
I owned several 72 Chevelles. The 327 had the heads off of several times. You could stand in the engine compartment and work on it if you took off the hood. Just to get the head OFF would take about an hour to an hour and a half. Now talk about cleaning parts, checking for damage, re-assembly, etc and you can add at least another 2-3 hours on top of that. And thats with a Chevy 327/350, which are the easiest engines in the world to work on. Also, with no emmissions whatsoever. I can only imagine the nightmare that the OPs mechanic would be in for in doing the head on that car. I would be SHOCKED if they could do it in under 8 hours. Even if two mechanics were on the job I bet it would take at least 6.
I helped a buddy of mine take the head off of his 6 cyl. 96 Dodge Intrepid (IIRC). It took the two of us about two hours just to get the head off. And we broke some parts along the way.
Remember, mechanics dont work faster, they work smarter. Which is supposed to make things go quicker. Speed isnt always critical. Getting the job done right the first time is the most important thing.
I imagine that car has long since gone to the junk yard in the sky. Although???
make sealer out of spam.