Thanks for the recommendations, guys. I will definitely be looking into them. (Memory, Sorrow and Thorn looks particularly interesting.)
Now for random snark about Mistborn. I realized, finally, the books really just weren’t going to redeem themselves, when even the much vaunted awesome and interesting magic system got exposed as the fraud it is. The author writes, late in book two, that one character with the power to magically excite others’ emotions used this power to excite a sense of calm in a group of people.
Yes. The character excited them into calmness.
That may sound silly enough if you haven’t read the book, but you have to realize it’s especially egregious given that there is another magical power, supposedly complementary to “rioting,” called “soothing,” and one of the main uses of “soothing” is, of course, to calm people down.
What’s next? Calming their boredness so they’ll become more excited?
With that, the two complements collapsed into what is for all intents and purposes a single power with two different names. And it became clear the author hadn’t thought things through so well, and did something here which he does throughout the book, which is to realize he’s written himself into a corner, and instead of going back to do the work of changing what needs to be changed in the rest of the book, instead just writes a throwaway line to cover over the problem.
I’m not entirely sure - you may want to check them out of the library and see for yourself, but maybe don’t do what I did and buy it sight unseen because everyone says it’s great. I just couldn’t get caught up in it.
I *think *it’s that there’s nothing for me to sympathize with. I think when you create a completely alien world with no touchstones of real history or culture, populated by people of disparate made-up societies, with crazy names (of individuals, races, and states) that don’t correlate to ours, you need to present a character who’s easy to identify with to ease us in. Like in Curse of Chalion, Cazaril is very understandable and sympathetic, and I was willing to follow him through this odd place and learn about it through his observations and memories. I just didn’t find that in the Malazan books.
There are certain similarities, but also many differences and to some extent it is a matter of taste. For example the Malazan milieu is a BIG magic world, in very marked contrast to Martin’s. It started as a role-playing world and it shows - earth-shatteringly powerful sorcerors and demi-gods abound and rub elbows with the hoi polloi.
There have been several threads on the series - like this one that solicited opinions on it.
Mmm, you might not want to do Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn - I read those in high school and am quite certain that they would not hold up for an adult. At least not to me.
ETA - I really liked at least the first Malazan book because it doesn’t make it easy for you.
While that’s a good catch, I don’t think it applies to what I was talking about. Sorry I can’t find the passage (it was on a kindle so I don’t even have a good feel for whereabouts in the book it was), but it very literally said (though in not these exact words) that the character “rioted” another character or group of characters’ emotion of “calmness.”
I mean, I guess, maybe, one could think of “calmness” as it’s own independent emotional drive to quash expression of other emotions. But I don’t think that’s how it really is, and I don’t think most people imagine emotions to work this way either, so the passage is puzzling at least.
Slight update, just want to say that I feel like the trilogy gets a lot better in the third book. (I’m 90% through the third volume.) I have learned how to skip the meaningless interior dialogues and things like that, and as far as big world-building stuff and the light philosophy that’s peppered in, it’s actually a pretty exciting read.
So if someone asked me if they should read it, I wouldn’t necessarily tell them it’s a must-not-read. I would tell them there was a lot I had to just skim or skip through though.
After this, I’ll go ahead and read Alloy of Law (for completeness sake) then I’m going to try the first two Malazan books and see how they hit me.
BTW replug for Alif the Unseen. Really excellent fantasy, set in the modern world with a Middle Eastern theme.
ETA: The people in Sanderson’s Mistborn world sure “snort” a lot. The word is found on nearly every page it seems… Maybe they’re pigs?
The thing about Erikson’s books is, there’s almost no exposition. The world itself spans hundreds of thousands of years and the books cover big chunks from every time period but at no point does Erikson ever sit down and say, “ok, see, back in the olden days …” He just goes and writes a scene in the olden days and expects you to keep up.
Tamerlane is right when he said the Malazan world started as a roleplaying game. The key point though is that it’s a roleplaying game dreamed up by two history majors when they were stuck on an archeological dig for a summer with nowhere else to go. It’s actually sort of amusing - several of the most badass characters in a series that take badassery to previously unseen heights are official court historians.
Just keep reading. It will all work out.
PS: I just finished Hero of Ages last night. I’m not sure what I think but I’d probably rate the series overall a B- effort.
I just finished it. Calling it “one big reset button” seems to miss the point if it’s supposed to be a criticism. (Minor spoilers to follow.)
If hitting a reset button turns out to be the solution to a book’s problems, then that’s usually bad. But in this case, the very problem for most of the series was figuring out how to hit that button. In other words, it’s not like someone said “I know, let’s just hit the reset button!” just at the end of the work. Rather, it was, from nearly the beginning, “there’s a reset button over there, and we need to figure out how to hit it!” We knew by the end of the first book, I think, that the big task was going to be undoing all the damage done by the Lord Ruler.
Just exactly how perfectly detailed the reset would turn out to be wasn’t made clear from the beginning, but it was effectively foreshadowed.
I found the main ideas of it all to be perfectly satisfying.
Yeah, but the ‘reset button’ in this case is, “turn into a god”. As a plot engine, it’s not very interesting. There really is no literary problem that can’t be solved by deifying your main character.
I thought his world development was interesting. I liked some of the cultures he created. I liked some of the characters - I wanted more of them and what makes them work. I thought his dialog was ok. I thought overall he “told” rather, than “showed”. I saw the earring thing coming a mile away. I would have liked to have known more about the guy playing Ruin.
I think B- is about as high as I’m willing to go. C is a defensible choice, IMO.
I agree it’s a C or B-. For whatever reason, the ending doesn’t bother me. It seems to be in keeping with everything we learn as we read through the series. I mean, we know we’re dealing with
people taking on aspects of divinity in some sense or other almost from the beginning, though we’re misled at first into thinking the Lord Ruler’s claims about a “sliver of God” are completely false, instead of only mostly false.
Having said that, it could well be I lowered my standards once I saw how much apparent mary-sue-ing was going on with characters suddenly getting unprecedented superpowers etc.
I would also like to know more about the guy who played ruin–and the one who played Preservation as well. In fact, preservation’s body was described in a bit of detail, makes me thing Sanderson has at least a wish to write a prequel at some point.
For great world building and really exploring the philosophical issues, I love Ursula LeGuin. Much of her work is SF but the Earthsea Cycle is among the best fantasy out there. Lyrical writing, engaging characters, and real consequences for the characters and their society.
I remember liking the first Mistborn installment; lighter YA fare, but well-crafted.
Then I made the mistake of visiting Sanderson’s website. I’ve steered clear of him since. Glad to hear I dodged a bullet in the form of later sequels.
As for a guaranteed palette-cleanser, I’d recommend China Miéville, esp. The Scar and Perdido Street Station. Most of his books are set in the same grimy, brutal world; but there’s a clever vitality to all of it. You might not get a happy ending, but it will make you think!
Was it just his anti-SSM stance that turned you off? I found the essay (poorly written but hey it’s the blogosphere, anyway) to be making a genuine attempt at understanding between erstwhile enemies. He’s against SSM, I’m fer it, but he also clearly and rightly thinks that the activist conservative approach to homosexuality is not just problematic but downright wrong. He seems to feel this, not just think it. So I didn’t really object to much in the essay.
I think Brent Weeks is similar to Sanderson, but since it seems what bugged you was the characterization/emotional drama what was turned you off (as opposed to the magic system, etc) you might still like him. I’d recommend his Lightbringer series (first book is The Black Prism) over Night Angel though, since Night Angel was a bit more amateurish and has younger protagonists.
I’m also a huge fan of Joe Abercrombie’s works, though they’re pretty gloomy/dark, and somewhat satirical of the whole fantasy genre. Still, if you like A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones, you’ll probably be okay with this.
Patrick Rothfuss’ two books are very good too, I liken them to adult Hogwarts story telling (which is a good thing!)
Since others mentioned Robin Hobb’s Assassin’s Apprentice series, I’ll throw my two cents in - the first two books are good, but the storyline then entirely derails from what made it interesting (young kid gets brought in the world of noble politics/backstabbing/assassinry). The third book meanders off into a hugely disappointing direction, and has one of the worst endings I’ve ever seen.
I always kinda figured he used “snort” when he meant something best described by “sniffed,” not a full-on pulling of air into the nasal cavity through the throat that makes a snort/pig noise, but just a quick pushing of air out the nose to show disdain. Not really sure what the best word for it would be, though - but I imagine an audible “turn one’s nose up” sort of thing. I dunno.