Some of the homeless people I’ve met would just buy drugs. No ID required. That’s much better, isn’t it?
I was going to post a few minutes ago but my 17 yr old son just got back with the 6 pack I sent him down to the corner for and it being so damn hot I had to have one right away. Anyway I’m sure glad I don’t live in a place that is so uptight I’d have to have an official ID or alcohol permit. And Americans love to call their country the “land of the free”!!
I’m sure they were calling this the land of the free even when people over 21 had to go down to your country to get a legal drink, during the 1920s. Though according to L.A. Times articles of the time which I’ve seen, there was an attempt to start Prohibition in Mexico too.
They’ve certainly clamped down on underage purchasers of alcohol in recent decades. The law’s always been there, but when I was at UC San Diego in the late 1970s there was a liquor store adjacent to the campus that never seemed to card anybody. And the vast majority of students students, then as now, are either underage or look like they could be.
And, of course, the people doing the clamping down pretty much all drank when they were under 21, whether or not it was legal. The drinking age in the US is bullshit, but the only thing people debate is how best to enforce it.
I think a law like this is a very bad idea. I had a 76 year old neighbor who didn’t drive and I often had to buy her cigarettes because the clerk wouldn’t sell them to her without ID. She didn’t look a day over 80. That was the grocery store’s ridiculous policy. The store is now out of business.
Depends on the state. Most states you can just fill out a form and send it in with a few bucks worth of fees.
Seriously? In most states you can get an ID card without any proof you are who you say you are (i.e., without a SS card, a birth certificate, or a state-issued id)?
That sounds odd to me. In Kentucky, at least, that’s not the case.
Not a good analogy.
The purpose of a driver’s license is to verify if you have the proper credentials to operate a motor vehicle. You cannot determine that by looking at the person.
You can determine if a person can legally buy liquor by looking at them, at least if they are 80. A document is useful in this case only if the person appears to be at the borderline age or is a makeup expert.
I am a permanent US resident, and I don’t have a green card. I don’t carry a driver’s license on my person when not driving. I have no need for this document as I can cash a check anywhere in my small town without it. I also don’t look too young to buy liquor, but such a law would inconvenience me.
One of our local grocery stores tried to inforce a store policy of carding everyone, but they got so much flak from 80yo grandmas, and probably lost business, like from me, that they dropped the policy. Now they just ask for a birthdate, which they enter into the cash register. I can guarantee that I have never given the same date twice.
I’m not sure this is true? I think the law in FL anyways is that you have to be able to have a drivers license and be able to produce it within some time period if your driving, but its not required to be in the car with you.
No, no, no. I meant a copy of your birth certificate, sorry–in retrospect that made no sense at all 
. Medicaid started requiring birth certificates to access medical services and I’ve spent the last year and a half helping multiple thousands of people, many indigent or homeless, try to access a copy of their birth certificate. Some states require notarized statements, but with many you just had to fill out a little form and send it off with a check for ten or fifteen bucks.
You just have to send them a copy of your driver’s license.
Speaking as a former Stop-N-Rob clerk, I can tell you exactly how this is going to play out: In the beginning folks will be religious about following it in most places and then, gradually, over time, they’ll slack off in the case of older folks and it’ll get progressively younger as they go along. Then, at some point, some underage kid will get busted, the local cops will do a crack down for about a month, then they’ll stop busting people, and the circle of life will be complete!
Having the clerks key in the date of birth in the cash register won’t work, either, because they’ll quickly figure out that they can key in a date like 1/1/11 or similar and the cash register will take it as someone being born in 1911, and thus old enough to buy. It, like many laws in this state, is profoundly stupid and will accomplish nothing. Lot’s of underage kids these days simply steal the booze from stores when they want it. The smart ones know to hit the stores when they’re not busy, come in looking disheveled like they’ve had a rough day of work, and buy the booze with a “My life sucks!” expression on their face.
The point is that carrying a driver’s license is not considered an onerous burden. At best, it is only a minor inconvenience. Besides, I also mentioned that US permanent residents are required to carry their green cards with them. Surely you don’t think that one’s residency status can be determined just by looking at them?
So you want to go out and buy liquor? By all means, feel free – but bring your ID with you. I acknowledge that in some situations, it is certainly overkill, but it’s by no means a horrific, back-breaking burden, as some seem to imply.
Besides, Foxy40 was talking about how people shouldn’t have to carry ID if they’re on their way to a boat for some fishing. Unless the boat is within walking distance of their home, then they are almost certainly forced to drive there – and if they can carry a fishing rod and a bait box, then they can surely carry an ID card as well.
Even in such situations, if a police officer catches you without your license, you are still required to show up for court even if you were not guilty of any traffic violations. In other words, it is merely an act of mercy on the court’s part, rather than free (ahem) license to drive without one on your person.
And what sort of ID would be required of US citizens when asked to prove legal residency? Birth certificate with 3 forms of picture ID? Passport? Surely citizenship can’t be determined by looking at someone.
Good luck.
A guy I knew was trying to obtain a copy of his birth certificate so that he could get a driver’s license, but the bureaucrats at the courthouse wouldn’t give him one without an ID. “But I need a birth certificate in order to get an ID!” he said. “Too bad”, was the obstinate reply.
Eventually they found some loophole where they could give him the birth certificate in exchange for a note, signed by his doctor, vouching for the fact that he was really him.
Lord knows what he would have done if he didn’t have health insurance.
So again, good luck. I hear bureaucracy is much more lax in certain third world countries and some deserted islands.
And if I had been talking about citizenship, your point might have some relevance here. I was not, though.
Green card holders must have their US permanent residency cards on their persons at all times. This is a well-established fact of law, and it is not considered to pose an onerous burden… PERIOD. One might ask why US citizens are not required to carry similar ID, but that is simply irrelevant to the topic at hand.
I’m astonished that people think it is some gross and horrible miscarraige of justice to be forced to bring an ID card when purchasing liquor. Do these people likewise think that it’s tremendously unjust to have to carry a driver’s license when operating a motor vehicle? If you want to buy liquor, take your card with you. Is it an inconvenience? Certainly… but hardly an onerous one.
Your words, not mine.
That’s all it is, a minor inconvenience, but one I don’t want to put up with and one I don’t have to at some stores.
Look – YMMV, but I don’t carry a wallet, and my DL is in my car. I don’t see the need to plan special liquor trips; I just stop at the store to buy stuff I need, and to me, liquor is no different from bread. Therefore, I never have a DL with me in a grocery store or if I’m travelling with friends. It’s not fun to be in the checkout line and find out I have to hold up the line and go out to my car or home just to fulfill some BS bureaucratic regulation.
Of course it is relevant. You’re talking about the government obligating you to prove something by showing a certain type of ID. Whether it is to prove age, residency, citizenship or whatever, why does anyone want to give the government such a right. And especially when it something as frivolous as buying alcohol.
Primary documentation where no other form of ID is required would be a US passport, certificate of naturalization, or certificate of citizenship. Otherwise you need a series of documents including a birth certificate and photo ID or several documents off this list:http://www.bazelon.org/pdf/citizenship-docs.pdf (Warning: PDF)
For all of you who are up in arms about the idea of having to carry ID to purchase alcohol, imagine what mentally ill, indigent, and homeless folks go through who now can’t access health care services to which they are entitled due to the Budget Deficit Reduction Act which now requires you to be able to furnish proof of citizenship and ID to access state-funded health care. You think you’re having difficulties because you can’t find your wallet? Imagine if you can’t order a copy of your birth certificate from your home state because you neither have a permanent mailing address or the $15 to pay for it anyway.
Alcohol is a controlled substance for a reason. It’s awfully hard for a homeless person to legally buy a handgun without an ID card, too, but nobody is shouting “gradual erosion of rights!” because homeless people are affected by a gun control law disproportionately to the rest of the population.
I don’t think that requiring ID for every alcohol purchase is an unreasonable rule. If it makes you feel better, just consider the fees required to obtain an ID an extra alcohol tax.