So. You have no proof. No evidence. No information. Just endless rehashing of the same old tired bullshit that has been used to sell worthless crap to people since the dawn of time, or at least the dawn of marketing. What makes this latest incarnation any different from Ol’ Doc McGillicutty’s Home Remedy Snake Oil?
You ask what’s the harm. The harm is that it’s a SCAM. You are taking peoples’ money and giving them nothing of value in return. That is dishonest and wrong. The fact that other people and companies may arguably be doing something similar is utterly irrelevant.
The day that reason and intelligence are finally enthroned as the guiding principles of society is the day that you, this company, and all other similar companies are permanently put out of business.
Wait–did you just mock someone for believing that men walked on the moon, but not believing that food has somehow (in general) lost its ‘nutrients’ (?!) in the past fifty years? :dubious:
Um, OK … I’m moving to Elvis’s island, it’s getting way too weird around here.
DaBabysDaddy, I’m normally not this blunt, but you are having some basic problems with critical thinking on this subject. It really makes no difference to me one way or the other whether you personally waste your money on this, but it does matter that your inchoate protestations are possibly representative of others that might be reading. Thus far, you’ve shown no readiness to actually read what’s being posted on this subject, but are instead picking out a phrase here or there and arguing (badly) from ignorance.
That all said, I will make one more attempt to give you some actual, factual, information that may help you (or others) make an informed decision.
Yes. It is rather indicative that you would mock another for asking for rigorous scientific testing before trusting their claims of health benefits. To repeat what I said earlier: There has been no rigorous scientific testing in humans for any health claims in Zija, other than claims that are true of many other fruit juices. That is, it is impossible to scientifically say that Zija has health benefits other than that it contains a number of nutrients. If all you want is vitamins, drink V-8.
As impressive as this list looks to the uneducated, there is a host of problems with the impression it gives:[ol][li]There is absolutely no information on how much Zija contains for any of these nutrients. Is there enough of the 8 essential amino acids? Many of the minerals listed are actually heavy metals; are there dangerous levels of some of them? The tolerable upper limit for Selenium is a mere 400 micrograms a day. That amount wouldn’t even cover the period at the end of this sentence. By not disclosing these amounts, Zija promoters have deprived you of what you need to answer to judge its nutritional effectiveness.[]They are playing games with some of the listings. Some are effectively listed twice. They list Chloride and Sodium separately to increase the impression of lots 'n lots of nutrients. Together, however, they are only ordinary table salt (and no person eating a Western diet needs to have more table salt in their food). This also applies especially in the “other nutrients section,” where they list a number of chemical classes that are subsets of already-listed chemicals. []They must obviously be something unique about Zija if it has all this, right? In reality, everything that Zija has that your body needs you can get from a balanced diet. Actually, Zija is deficient is some respects. Going back to the amino acids, even if they include the right amounts of each essential amino acid they are missing Glutamate and Asparagine. You’d do better by eating a chicken breast.[]Many of the “other beneficial nutrients” are large classes of chemicals. They might as well list, “Stuff.” Polyphenols, for example are any chemical that has more than one group of 6 carbon atoms arranged in a closed ring sharing chemical bonds joined to an oxygen atom. At least 5000 polyphenols have been identified. Some polyphenols have indeed been identified to have positive health benefits, but hardly all of them are health. Which ones does Zija have? You don’t know, and apparently neither do Zija promoters.[]Lastly, they use wallpaper phrasing like “and many more” to cover up, well, what? You don’t know what those many more ingredients are, whether you actually need them, or how much of them they include. [/ol][/li]But like I said, there’s nothing really unique about these claims. If you do indeed eat almost nothing but McDonald’s and drink to excess (as you imply you do), then Zija might balance out a really poor diet. Eating a healthy diet would do everything this list claims and more, and probably for less money.
All this is, however, secondary to Zija’s real claims:
Here we get to the meat of the matter – is there any good science for these claims? Let’s take them one by one:
[ul][li]“ZEATIN: Enhances the effectiveness of antioxidant and anti-aging compounds.” No. It doesn’t have any proven synergistic effect in humans on other anti-oxidants. It does have proven effects in preventing inflammatory damage to human skin cells, but that’s not what they claim. [/li][li]“QUERCETIN: …one of the best naturally occurring anti-inflammatory agents available.” Quercetin is an anti-oxidant, but there’s little research about comparative anti-oxidant or anti-inflammatory effects. Considering the sheer number of chemical compounds that have some anti-inflammatory or anti-oxidant effect, declaring one of them “one of the best” is at the very least, horribly premature. [/li][li]“BETA-SITOSTEROL: Blocks “bad” cholesterol absorption from food, normalizes blood sugar, enhances the immune system, and acts as a supreme anti-inflammatory agent.” The first of these claims is just plain wrong: “bad” cholesterol is a popular over-simplification of high-density lipoprotein. Lipoproteins are transport mechanisms for cholesterol; the cholesterol transported is the same whether linked to HDL or LDL. In other words, you don’t absorb “bad” cholesterol from food – you synthesize it internally. The cholesterol content in your diet is only tenuously linked to your blood cholesterol level in any event. The other three claims are completely unsupported by research, meaninglessly vague, and as bad as the claim about quercetin, respectively.[/li][li]“CAFFEOYLQUINIC ACID: Exhibits significant anti-inflammatory activity.” The only meaningful and true claim made.[/li][li]“KAEMPFEROL: Proven to encourage healthy cell growth and function.” Another meaninglessly vague claim.[/li][/ul]
So, here is your choice: Look into good nutrition, or pay whatever these folks want to charge you for fruit juice.
Oh, and I might suggest you look into learning about the period. It’s a very useful punctuation device.
That is a thourough and easily-read analysis, paperbackwriter. Thanks.
Looking at the spot where it says, "Blocks “bad” cholesterol absorption from food, normalizes blood sugar, . . . " it seems to be hinting that if you have high cholesterol and diabetes, you can skip the medication and good diet and just drink this. I’m guessing that would very much NOT be a good idea.
Paperback Writer! ( No periods… I love the exclamation point) Periods, as grammatically correct as they are… are boring! Enough on that! (lol)
I am impressed with the analysis!
I don’t drink alcohol at all! When I piss away money, it’s on the never ending Bull Shizz that my wife and kids can deem necessary and they can’t live without! Important things like Light up Sneakers and Silly Bands. (lol)
And, I would never snub and opposing opinion or an intelligent debate on the effectivness or ineffectivness of this product. I too, found this thread through a Google Search. I am / was searching for all of the bad info to be had on this product. (Used a Period) And, to be honest this was all I could find. The Discovery Documentary, that Zija so boldly presents as evidence, and all of the doctors used to promote the nutritional findings, seem to be on Zija’s Payroll. I am not an idiot! I figured all of that out from the beginning! But, even you said that it “could” offset a poor diet or even a diet lacking some nutrients. (another period) And yes, maybe they do side-step some of the quantities of the nutrient contained… I see that and noticed it before I got on here.
I am not trying to “Sharp Shoot” anyone or Promote anything or convince anyone that ZIJA is anything more than a supplement “of sorts” I am on a fact finding mission. I am not a distributor… yet! In fact I just drank my first can today! Strangly enough… I feel like SUPERMAN!! Just kidding, I am being sarcastic there, but really…
Do you have a bigger problem with the cost and the fact that they are making millions off of a over-priced can od vitamins and minerals? Or are you more upset that they are Over Inflating the affects of the “Snake Oil” or a combo of both!
My position is that, I am a 50 year old dude that struggles to eat a balanced diet, with no time to get in a good exercise program, I have extra money to spend on a supplement and I am Just at the end of a 3 month “life changing” diet! I do not even call it a diet now, because it has become apparent that my metabolism has slowed down to a crawl! I am 70" 178 now… down from 220! I was never obese just had a “Poor Diet’s Big Belly”! I went from @ 5000 calories to about 1400! I also eat a ton of EXPENSIVE fruits and veggies now! I am taking Metabolife Ultra to keep my body from going into “FAT STORAGE” mode. (WoW, a third peiod! I am starting like this thing) I also have mild Arthritis in my knees, from being Rode Hard and Put Away Wet, by the Army! (I take Fish Oil Pills and an Occaisional Naproxen for the artritis)
This “ZIJA GUY” has presented his product and I feel it does have some nutritional value! Maybe not the Miracle Cure that some feel that Zija claims to be, but “some” nutritional value.
Would it still be your position that I am not doing the right thing by swallowing a can or two of this stuff a day? And… In a month or so, if I feel better, continue it! If it doesn’t make a noticable difference… I will consider it another $90 bucks just pissed away! Nothing Ventured nothing Gained!
A big mac has “some” nutritional value. The patty is a good source of iron and the tomato slice and ketchup contain tiny, tiny amounts of antioxidants.
Ok, so you really have three questions: Can Zija harm you, can it help you, and is it something that is worth the price?
Can Zija harm you? It’s impossible to say, because they don’t give you enough information to see if they have amounts of individual ingredients that are too high. Vitamins A, D, E, and K are all fat-soluble, so they can accumulate if taken in too-high doses and cause various problems. All of the listed minerals can cause various problems in excess. The vague nature of the “other nutrients” prevents you from knowing if there is a phytochemical that is generally harmful, harmful in high amounts, has potential for causing allergic or idiosyncratic reactions, or may otherwise be a source of health risk. Bottom line: I wouldn’t guarantee lack of risk in regards to a product that had this level of documentation.
Can Zija help you? Possibly yes. The nutrients listed include ones needed by humans. that said, you don’t need to use this formulation to get those nutrients. It also contains a lot of certainly unproven ingredients, as well as probably unnecessary ingredients and perhaps (again because of the poor disclosure) harmful ones.
Is Zija worth the price? I can’t make this determination for you, but for myself the answer would be: certainly not. If you’re truly worried that your diet is not giving you what you need, why not find out first what you may be missing? Talk to a nutritionist, keep a food diary, check out the excellent nutrition resources available on th web, such as Self’s Nutrition Data pages. For myself, I try to eat a modified Mediterranean style diet and take a multivitamin, some fish oil, and a baby aspirin.
You can also get all these nutrients in a vitaman pill. Of course a food source is always the best way to go but with a multivitiam you KNOW exactly how much of each nutrient you’re getting. And you can avoid the things you don’t want.
I have a condition where I must avoid iron. Many people are. This product doesn’t tell us EXACTLY how much iron is in it. Lot’s of people need to supplement with some nutrients and avoid others.
So many of these snake oil companys motto is, “might cure this, might help that…but shhhh…don’t ask what or how much is actually in it.” This could cause problems for a lot of people.
My curiosity was a bit piqued about this. Apparently the Discovery Channel (supposedly) aired a documentary about the Moringa oleifera plant. Nearly all of the references I could find to this were on Zija promotional sites. Presuming this did actually air, I will point out that this is the same network that airs Ghost Lab. So… yeah.
In any case, I am willing to admit that this plant may have exciting potential in science. There are good reasons to believe why it may be a useful vegetable to prevent malnutrition in the poorer countries where it grows, for example. But there’s a huge logical leap between that and buying Zija.
For example, why does its proprietary blend matter? There’s no evidence that this blend does anything in particular to enhance the product – they simply say it’s better. But there’s no proof that it does anything at all over just eating vegetables or taking a multivitamin.
But, again, it’s really up to the people selling the product to prove that it does so better than the vast array of normal, relatively inexpensive foods that are available in whole, unprocessed form. They are the ones making extreme claims. Does it not alarm you that they claim that the product does all kinds of things, from making you lose weight to improving your skin to extending your life? Why should we contort ourselves to say “well… if someone had a really poor diet of Saltines and potted meat, then maybe there would be some benefit to drinking Zija”. Who cares? The point is that there’s really no reason to believe that drinking a bottle of Zija does anything different than eating some kale or drinking a V8 for that matter, despite their frantic claims otherwise.
You can keep reaching and reaching for reasons to buy this product if you want to. However, this is how you sound:
<Huckster> Buy this magnificent, amazing, forged-in-the-fiery-belly-of-the-earth spherical rock! Only $199.95! This rock does 10,000 amazing things from preventing the creeping nose rot to discouraging theft of your most important documents by insidious criminal elements! We have proof of all of these things right over here on this show we saw on cable one time! Also this rock has been tumbled in our proprietary tumbler, causing it to be exceptionally well-balanced and aerodynamic! This proprietary system causes the earth’s magnetic field to flow around you with exceptional vigor, bringing you good luck and financial success!
<You> Well, it could be a good paperweight I guess. Or I could throw it at a thief. It’s better than nothing! I’ll take it!
In other words, Zija might potentially be useful in some circumstance to someone somewhere that you could name… but again, who cares? There are lots and lots of options to make your healthy diet that are both less expensive and more firmly grounded in scientific fact than Zija is. So why would you want to encourage and enrich snake oil salesman by buying something just because, ehh, probably won’t hurt?
ugh sorry. probably a dumb way to post the link, it was a search on a user, but tbh, what it inferred probably has no place in this forum, so just ignore it.
I, for one, would like to salute the patience shown by paperbackwriter. Thank you, as always, for getting The Beatles stuck in my head, and for walking us all through this.
