They do almost all the time. QBs have a lot of teammates that help them win (or lose). And you’re talking about pretty small sample sizes. It’s actually a pretty stupid way to rate QBs.
It would, in my opinion, be reasonable to say that if New England wins the Super Bowl this year, he could retire and still be a first-ballot Hall of Famer. Not bad for a guy that couldn’t even win the starting job outright at Michigan.
Brady’s HOF credentials have been in place since his second SB win, I think. He could throw 10 interceptions against the Chargers this week and then retire to stay with whatever supermodel he’s dating this week and still get elected to Canton on the first ballot.
I think if Brady wins two more, he’ll become the general consenus for “Best Ever.”
Calling Favre the best ever is laughable. Top 10 , maybe, but he’s thrown too many interceptions and has choked in too many big games to be called best ever. His starting streak is impressive, but his records are as a much a mark of longevity and a desire to keep trying to hang onto a career long past his peak than anything else. Greatness has to be measure by big game performances and an ability to lead a team when the chips are down. Brady and Montana could do that. Favre throws inteceptions and screws his team.
While I generally agree regarding Favre’s records being the result of longevity, he’s still an impressive NFL QB and ranks with the highest order of Qb’s past and present, and is a sure first-balloter.
Who do you think would have done better than Brady? In my opinion, the only player in the league who’s anywhere near Brady is Peyton Manning, and he’s had phenomenal offensive teammates for (almost) his whole career. Put them in the same situation, and I’d take Brady every time.
I’m curious who else you’re thinking of.
Agreed. 1st ballot HOFer for sure. One of the top ten, even top 5 QB’s ever. He just can’t be called THE best with only one ring, a record for career interceptions and a number of blown big games.
Stole my post.
The thing with Brady is that I can;t once remember watching a game and thinking “Wow, he really took that game over” or “I’ve never seen anyone do that before.”
He’s undeniably great and he executes about as flawlessly as anyone I have ever seen, but so far he just lacks a certain gravitas that many of the all-time greats have. I think part of the reason for this is that he’s had great talent around him and Belichick’s gameplans have been so flawless that he’s never been in a real meat grinder before. Elway, the best I have ever seen, had that rocket arm and had so many dramatic, big game comebacks where he simply carried his team that he just looked great. Brady has won a ton of big games, has a irrefutable record and has impressive statistics this season, but he doesn’t have any signature moments.
Really? I can think of a dozen, easy, including multiple Superbowls.
When has Brady ever had great talent around him before ths year? he’s won three rings with mediocre talent. He’s never had a great receiving squad before this season.
Also, he’s been in a bunch of meatgrinders and had some 4th quarter come from behind wins just this year.
As to signature moments, how about driving his team to that game winning field goal with less than 30 seconds to go his first Superbowl against the heavily favored Rams?
I was thinking of Favre. It’s funny that Garrard was having just as good of a game as Brady until there was a ton of pressure on them to score at the end. I dunno, maybe I underrate Brady since he doesn’t do anything that stands out. He is immensely poised, I guess that stands out.
I like Marino for a great arm and playing for less than stellar teams. Elway was another. Favre played with ok teams.
Pete Rose set the hit mark. He did it by longevity and playing hard but can you say he was the best hitter of all time.
Farve is kinda like that.
I think he lacks something more than that: He’s no fun to watch. It’s like watching a surgeon. I think, “Wow, that looks really technical and difficult, and he’s really good at it,” but I don’t get all wrapped up in it.
For a counterexample, take Favre (of whom I admit I’m a big fan). Favre has had some great seasons, but when I think of him, the first thing that comes to mind isn’t the Super Bowl or his records. I think of:
[ul]
[li]the Monday night game against the Vikings in 2000, when he threw a 20-yard TD underhand as he was going down;[/li][li]the time in 1997 or so when I saw him get brutally sacked, and then when he jumped up he was laughing; and [/li][li]now, I’ll think of Saturday’s snow game when he made that off-the-cuff, underhand pass to Donald Lee.[/li][/ul]
In other words, I think of how much fun it is to watch him play. He loves playing football, and you can see that in everything he does on the field. His style is distinctive and instantly recognizable, as easy to spot as a Hitchcock movie or a Gershwin song.
Brady’s play is sterile, antiseptic. Sure, he’s got a higher win percentage than Favre, but in the end, football’s not really about wins; sports is entertainment. Favre is entertaining, and Brady is not. (The fake direct-snap on Saturday was interesting, but Brady managed to make it look inevitable.) I won’t say Favre is a better quarterback, but he’s definitely my favorite to watch.
I’ll grant that Brady was pretty damn funny on Saturday Night Live, though.
Yeah, right. Favre is the only QB who loves playing football. He’s just like a kid out there. Brady, Elway, Marino, Montana, Young, Aikman, Bradshaw, Manning didn’t/don’t love the game. Only Favre does.
Even if there was any truth or merit to the overcooked contention that Favre loves the game any more than anyone else who plays it, it still wouldn’t make him a better QB. Favre is undisciplined and makes wild decisions, some of which work out for him and end in fluke big plays or touchdowns. Other times his carelessness and overconfidence lose him the game. I’ll take displine and accuracy over gambling and recklessness any day of the week. I don’t think a QB should be penalized for making smart decisions and putting the ball on the money rather than flinging it for grabs like a spaz every time they face a little pressure.
I just don’t see it. The Pats defense more often than not was the deciding factor in years past. In the close games this season he did step up in the fourth quarter to put away teams, but it those examples it always felt like the opposition was just hanging on by a thread. It just didn’t have that backbreaking quality that those Elway 4th and 14 scrambles did.
Until this year he never had great receivers, but he always had great teams with him. The Pats defense has always been elite, made even more dangerous because of the effectiveness of their coaching. The offensive line’s level of play is simply awesome, Brady averages fewer sacks than just about anyone not named Peyton and those numbers have been consistent year after year. They always won without him having great numbers which goes a long way to pointing out the quality of his teams.
That was fine, but he was 16 of 27 for 145 yards and one touchdown in that game. It was a very good series of plays for him, but everyone remembers Viniatieri 48-yarder from that game. Not Brady. Brady was more impressive overall in the Panthers Super Bowl but the fact that he got the ball on the 40 yard line on the final drive and had over a minute to gain 30 yards removes some of the “wow”. I don’t think the average fan has a signature image from either of those performances by Brady.
I think he’s great, but he tends to avoid do-or-die situations. Credit him and Belichick for that, and maybe that’s a better indication of his greatness than anything. But in the emotional question of GOAT, it probably hurts him.
In the irony of ironies the fact that his 3 Super Bowls were all close games is probably a fair argument against him too.
Come down off the ledge. No one says that Favre’s “love for the game” is unique or even uncommon. However the way he wears it on his sleeve and manages to suck the fans into it is pretty unique. That’s the argument being made, Favre is more fun to watch. To some people, that might fit their definition of “best”.
Apparently I touched a nerve. Please take off the filters and read what I actually wrote, OK? Perhaps I need to boil it down to a sound-bite? Oh, wait, I already did, several times:
I didn’t suggest for a moment that Favre is the only player who loves playing football; that would be stupid, which I am not. What I said is that Favre makes his love of the game obvious to the observer.
Favre makes a lot of bad decisions and tries to force balls that he shouldn’t. He’s a great QB, but there’s no way that style would fly with the Patriots. Brady threw 8 interceptions this season. The last time Favre finished the year with fewer than 13 picks was his rookie season, when he had just 4 atempts (and 2 picks). Put him on the Pats this year and they’d have twice as many turnovers and probably 3 losses… put him on any of the Pats other Super Bowl teams and I don’t think they’d make it past the AFC championship.
Marino and Elway are funny. They both played most of their careers for mediocre teams - Marino never made it back to the Super Bowl after his second year, and Elway couldn’t win the game until he could ride Terrel Davis and a top-10 defense all the way. Brady’s been surrounded by the same kind of offensive talent that Marino and Elway had, and he won 3 super bowls with it. His defense has been good, but not elite. In their 3 Super Bowl victories (2001, '03, '04), the Pats defense was ranked 24th, 7th, and 9th, respectively (the Broncos defenses were 5th and 11th in their two wins). The Pats defenses (aside from 2001) have been good, but they haven’t been the kind of squad that can carry a mediocre QB all the way. With somebody who was less composed under center, the Pats would probably still be a perennial playoff team, but nobody would be talking dynasty.
To me, watching Brady calmly pick apart a defense is far more impressive than watching Manning flapping his arms around or seeing Favre throw the ball up for grabs off his back foot. He doesn’t throw snowballs at his teammates or run down the field jumping up in the air… all he does is win game after game after game. He’s the best quarterback - and on a short list of the best players - I’ve ever seen.
On the flip side, if he doesn’t win this year, what else would he need to do to be the best?
I dunno. I’m not sure of my list, but I do know that Montana is at the top. Is he better than Montana was? I’d say they’re roughly comparable, but Brady has t keep on going a little more.
I won’t be convinced unless he puts up HOF-type numbers on a non-Belichick, non-playoff team.