Was "The Hurricane" Guilty?

[LC_Strawhouse]

@Hottius_Maximus

Again, I have to wonder why exactly Hollywood is infatuated with these thugs and miscreants so much that they have to rewrite the facts to make them look like heroes.

To be fair, The Hurricane was just a strange movie and I don’t think there are THAT many movies quite like that. There are much more common problems with the movie industry (like too much CGI)

[Little_Nemo]

@Randvek

All you really have to ask yourself is “is ‘probably guilty’ good enough to spend your life in jail?” Some people say yes, some people say no. Funny thing, that.

Legally, no, probably guilty is not enough to convict somebody.

But in the arena of public opinion, a verdict of probably guilty is fine. I have no hesitation, for example, in saying that O.J. Simpson was probably guilty of committing murder even if he was found innocent in court.

[Learjeff]

@DigitalC

If real life was interesting enough we wouldn’t need movies. But yeah, probably guilty but the prosecution was horrible.

Life is interesting enough, but movie makers want to earn a profit.

@Little_Nemo

Legally, no, probably guilty is not enough to convict somebody.

But in the arena of public opinion, a verdict of probably guilty is fine. I have no hesitation, for example, in saying that O.J. Simpson was probably guilty of committing murder even if he was found innocent in court.

My sentiments exactly, meaning he probably belongs in prison.

@Human Action

William Goldman wrote:

There are really two kinds of flicks—what we now call generic Hollywood movies, and what we now call Independent films.

Hollywood films—and this is crucial to screenwriters—all have in common this: they want to tell us truths we already know or a falsehood we want to believe in.

Hollywood films reinforce, reassure.

Independent films, which used to be called ‘art’ films, have a different agenda. They want to tell us things we don’t want to know.

Independent films unsettle.

Good quote. He was right. In addition, most movies are made to make a profit. The above formulas are pretty good for that, too, though on different scales and to different audiences. No doubt some movies are made with little regard for profit, but they’re the minority, especially among A-budget films. It’s hard to fund a big cost money loser.

[Human_Action]

@Learjeff

My sentiments exactly, meaning he probably belongs in prison.

The State of New Jersey could have tried Carter a third time, but chose not to, since 22 years had passed, which would weaken any case.

@Learjeff

Good quote. He was right. In addition, most movies are made to make a profit. The above formulas are pretty good for that, too, though on different scales and to different audiences. No doubt some movies are made with little regard for profit, but they’re the minority, especially among A-budget films. It’s hard to fund a big cost money loser.

It really is a question of scale. If you keep the budget low enough and get some names attached, pretty much any film can get made.

I’ll tell you what might make an interesting film: a group of idealistic young people set about trying to get an unjust conviction overturned. After interviewing (and bonding with) the convicted man, they slowly start to uncover evidence that he was guilty after all, tearing the group apart, as some deny the evidence, others think the fairness of the trial is the issue, others don’t want to risk letting a guilty man out, etc.

[UltraVires]

@Human_Action

The State of New Jersey could have tried Carter a third time, but chose not to, since 22 years had passed, which would weaken any case.

Plus there was no life without parole then. Artis was paroled in 1981 and Carter wouldn’t have been much further behind him anyways. A retrial in 1985 would have served little purpose.

[Really_Not_All_That_Bright]

@Hottius_Maximus

PROPAGANDA! EXACTLY! I wonder how long it will be when a movie is made about either Tooky Williams or Abu Jamal Mumia to make THEM out to be innocent saints who were either railroaded or guilty because SOCIETY made them that way!

ahem

I’m curious to why you aren’t making the same complaints about, say, Oliver Stone.

[Hottius_Maximus]

@Really_Not_All_That_Bright

ahem

I’m curious to why you aren’t making the same complaints about, say, Oliver Stone.

I suppose I could have complained about Oliver Stone. However I wanted to confine this discussion to criminals who were glorified and lauded by Hollywood.

[Really_Not_All_That_Bright]

Like Richard Nixon?

[Condescending_Robot]

@Human_Action

I’ll tell you what might make an interesting film: a group of idealistic young people set about trying to get an unjust conviction overturned. After interviewing (and bonding with) the convicted man, they slowly start to uncover evidence that he was guilty after all, tearing the group apart, as some deny the evidence, others think the fairness of the trial is the issue, others don’t want to risk letting a guilty man out, etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Paperboy_(2012_film)

[Human_Action]

@Condescending Robot

Spoiler…

Thanks!

[handsomeharry]

@Randvek

All you really have to ask yourself is “is ‘probably guilty’ good enough to spend your life in jail?” Some people say yes, some people say no. Funny thing, that.

I think the post that used that term was not coming from a juror. I believe you are confusing the issues.

[handsomeharry]

@LC_Strawhouse

I remember that movie. It was basically a 1960s movie made 30 years too late, where you’re not supposed to care how true it is because it teaches a good lesson to always question the establishment, man!

Right on, baby!

[handsomeharry]

@Hottius_Maximus

For that matter, why in the world did Bob Dylan think it was necessary to praise this dirt bag?

IIRC, Dylan was sort of slammed with a bunch of pro-Carter propaganda, by the ones who were making a big deal out of how The Man was persecuting Carter. I think he didn’t start to get any part of the full story until a few years after his song was released, etc…

[H3Knuckles]

What surprises me is that this is still an issue with Hollywood. Law & Order figured this shit out back in the 80’s with their “ripped from the headlines/the following story is in no way meant to represent actual people or events” double-talk.

If you’re a writer/director/producer, and you come across some real-life story that inspires you; fictionalize it. Use different names, change the setting slightly (different state, same region, or different part of the same front line, etc), basically just go ahead and tell the story you want to tell using only the good seeds from reality without including all the chaff of legal liabilities that comes with using real identities or billing it as a biography.

Problem solved.

Besides, they still could’ve used the “Hurricane” nickname and song, it’s generic enough and would be a tip of the hat to the inspiration.

[Really_Not_All_That_Bright]

As far as Hollywood is concerned, it’s not an issue. It’s not as though people stay away from movies because their friends say they’re historically inaccurate.

[Hottius_Maximus]

@handsomeharry

IIRC, Dylan was sort of slammed with a bunch of pro-Carter propaganda, by the ones who were making a big deal out of how The Man was persecuting Carter. I think he didn’t start to get any part of the full story until a few years after his song was released, etc…

Interesting; did Bob Dylan ever say he regretted defending somebody who in reality was most likely guilty?

[Hottius_Maximus]

@Really_Not_All_That_Bright

Like Richard Nixon?

What movie ever glorified Richard Nixon? I admit that I didn’t see the Anthony Hopkins film so I cannot comment on it. I did see “Frost/Nixon” and I don’t see how Hollywood tried to excuse Nixon’s crimes and make some kind of hero out of him in the process, the way Hollywood has done with the Hurricane and Barbara Graham, to name two.

[LC_Strawhouse]

@Hottius_Maximus

What movie ever glorified Richard Nixon? I admit that I didn’t see the Anthony Hopkins film so I cannot comment on it. I did see “Frost/Nixon” and I don’t see how Hollywood tried to excuse Nixon’s crimes and make some kind of hero out of him in the process, the way Hollywood has done with the Hurricane and Barbara Graham, to name two.

There are definitely Hollywood movies on the other side of the coin. You may like Paul Schrader’s films which really ripped into left-wing anarchist types, particularly **Patty Hearst **and The Mosquito Coast. Running on Empty with River Phoenix is another movie along those lines. The Final Option (aka Who Dares Wins) is a nice British action film from the early 80s which uses left wing activists as villains - Judy Davis is great as the insane leftist leader.

[Hottius_Maximus]

@LC_Strawhouse

There are definitely Hollywood movies on the other side of the coin. You may like Paul Schrader’s films which really ripped into left-wing anarchist types, particularly **Patty Hearst **and The Mosquito Coast. Running on Empty with River Phoenix is another movie along those lines. The Final Option (aka Who Dares Wins) is a nice British action film from the early 80s which uses left wing activists as villains - Judy Davis is great as the insane leftist leader.

Thanks I 'll have to check those films out. FYI—While I never saw the movie, I did read “The Mosquito Coast” when it first came out.