I would hope that substantial progress, at least, can be made on all these lessons before they go anywhere. A kid that can’t do their own laundry by 15 or 16 is partially disabled, as far as I’m concerned. Which is not to say that there’s anything wrong with one person typically doing a whole household’s laundry as part of a comfortable division of labor, but teenagers are plenty old enough to learn these things and at least sometimes have responsibility for doing them for themselves. The same principle applies to preparing simple meals, and so on. (I’m hoping the picking-up-after-yourself part will be locked in still earlier.)
What I advocate is that, regardless of where the kid will be living at age 22, the move towards independence should begin–in the same household–long before that.
Single, graduated from college with a BA, looking to go into grad school.
Can’t afford to live on my own. Too much debt from college, no good-paying jobs to be had in the area. I’m working minimum wage and I can’t find anywhere that’ll hire full time. I’m hoping grad school will open up some options, but if I was to leave home and try to pay rent on my own there’s no way I could afford going back to school. It really sucks since I’ve lived on my own before and would love to do it as soon as possible, but I’ve accepted that I’m in a tight spot for the time being.
I chose 22, because that’s about when people graduate from universities or colleges, and it’s a good time to start something new, including living on your own, if they haven’t already done so. Advanced degrees make a difference, I guess, but I would find a grad student living with their parents to be somewhat unusual.
I moved out at 19, though, and never went back (and am unlikely to at this point, a decade later!)
Of course. They are eleven and twelve now, can do laundry (complex folding is tough, and I wouldn’t trust either of them with my work delicates, but jeans, t-shirts and underwear they are pros at), make meals, plan menus and grocery lists, pick up after themselves, mend seams and sew on buttons, hang pictures in their rooms without putting the hammer through the sheetrock and do simple budgeting. Both can mow the lawn, garden and weed. It isn’t like I’m going to cut them loose in the dorm at 18 without training. (They cannot change the oil in a car, I don’t know how to do that one - they do know to check the oil in the mower before they mow - and put more in if needed).
But there is a difference between being able to do those things when mom is around, and working without a net.
By “nothing good for them to stay” I mean “They aren’t doing anything progressive for them to stay”.
My brother is 21 and he sleeps all day. He has no job and has no income. He stays at home all day long going back and forth between sleeping and being on the internet.
So I guess what I’m asking (which is what I was trying to put into words when I used the phrase “Providing there not being a good reason for the offspring to stay…” ) is…if the child is not doing anything by way of contributing, progressing, or any viable reason to stay, at what age should they be made to leave? 18? 19? 20? 25?
I see. Well, an eighteen-year-old is counted an adult in most respects. Adults as a general rule are responsible for themselves. With no redeeming or mitigating circumstances, I can’t see why there should be more than a year’s grace period beyond that. So I’ll say 19 is very reasonable, if it’s like that.
I really think it depends. In general, I’m fine with my son and daughter living with us until they’ve graduated from college and gotten a job. But if they happen to be living with us and going to college, but failing due to negligence or looking for a job but not really, it’s time for them to go.
That said, I do envy cultures that have extended family living together. I know in the U.S. part of the definition of success is “doesn’t live with parents,” and kids who go through adulthood living with their parents are by and large considered deadbeats. But I sometimes wistfully think of how nice it would be for my son and daughter to grow up with their grandparents an arm’s reach away (and, of course, how nice it’d be to have an extra set of arms when mine are full). Then my mom spends a weekend with us and I think that extended family would be nice…for other families.
The whole “living on your own as a self-sufficient adult since age X” is very much a western ideal, and negates other cultures around the world where the nuclear family (mom, dad, children) is not the norm. For example, in Chinese culture, the notion of having “three generations under one roof” (roughly translated) is highly praised, and it would be shameful if a son all of a sudden decided to be independent from his family. Don’t quote this as a cold hard fact, but culturally, there is this idea that a family united is much stronger than one that is divided, and independence is not as big of a stepping stone as Western cultures dictate. What is important is being able to provide your relations with help in their time of need and produce children to carry on the family name.
It makes sense to people who are living in areas where their culture is the majority, but I think immigrant families come across the problem of being vilified if they can’t live as a nuclear unit. In college, I remember a girl who was pretty open about living with not only her parents, but two uncles, aunts, and cousins and her grandparents. I think the household totaled 16 people and I would overhear comments about how she was able to stand it, how uncomfortable it must be to live in a house packed to the rafters, how there’s not a moment of solitude for her, etc. What these people don’t get is that the way her family functions, it’s pretty much normal and who needs privacy anyway when you know you have such an extensive support system at a toe’s reach?
Point is, depending on the family unit and the culture itself, there really isn’t (and shouldn’t be) a line for most people as to when (or if) someone should move out and live on their own as a mark of “success”.
I chose 22, because if you graduate high school and go straight to university, you’ll be around 18 and finish your 4 year degree around 22, and then you should move out and find a job. It’s, um, very formulaic around here.
FTR, I was 20 when I moved out because I took a 2 year diploma program (no degrees in my field around here).
I think it depends more upon the parent than on the kid. If the parents are capable of treating their children as adults sharing a household, rather than trying to set rules and guide actions as if they were 12, then it’s great. The longer one can stay, and save, and share expenses, the better.
Adult kids should pay rent - even if the parent is well-enough-off to put the money aside for a down payment later. And if the parent is really secure, they could even put some utilities in the kid’s name.
It’s also important that the physical environment be seperate enough to allow for a omfortable social life for everybody. If the kid’s morals don’t allow for overnight guests anyway - no worries.
In answer to Post #26 though, that’s another situation entirely. It’s incredibly painful, but absent a diagnosis of some sort, the kid needs a boot in the pants. I pray to Og I never have to face that. Celtling is super independent already, so I don’t think I will, my OMG that sounds awful. 19 is my final answer in that case.
Thanks, sometimes they aren’t all that, but in general, they are good kids. Its all part of my grand plan to have NO ONE living in my basement, EVER. Not my mother, not my brother in law, not some friend whose wife kicked him out, and not my own grown children. Help them establish independence and then push them out of the nest.
17 or 21, depending on what leaving is defined as. We strongly believed that our kids should go to college far away (and they agreed) so in one sense they moved out at 17, though they were back for the summer. We also paid for college, so I don’t know if that makes a difference. The older one really never came back (for long) but the younger one is off to Germany to teach for a year, self sufficient, so I don’t know if that counts as moving back or not.
I picked 22, figuring an individual could have a degree and a job by then. However, there is no real answer. Unless by “living at home” you mean continuing to exist as a child, not contributing, not working, just being…
If not in college, as soon as a kid graduates from high school, he/she should get a job and start contributing to the household as an adult. The way I look at it, unless you’re working to pay your tuition and education expenses, you should be paying room and board as well as taking care of your personal chores and purchases. Mommy doesn’t need to be doing your laundry and cooking for you.
In reality, things are tough, and I see no issue with living at home however long, provided it’s not in the child role. What better way to save for a home of your own? But regardless of circumstances, I see this as a highly personal issue within a family. The way I deal with my daughter may or may not work for someone else.
I left home at 19 after dropping out of college, but I joined the Navy, so I didn’t have housing issue for some time. It worked great for me. But there’s no way I could have afforded to live on my own at the time - not in a reasonably safe neighborhood.
My daughter is 25, living in an apartment we built in our basement. She’s in the middle of a divorce, working on getting out of debt, and about to buy her first car. Being with us enables her to get her life in order. I expect she’ll be gone in 2 years, but even if she stays, we’ll deal with it at the time. For the record, she wants her own place, but she also wants to get her debts settled. I think that’s wise.
It depends where you live, too. In central London you’d need a thousand quid just to move into a shared house (month’s rent in advance + month’s rent as deposit, though often it’s six weeks as deposit), and that’s a lot of money. Plus, if you already live in the city rather than the suburbs then there’s less reason to move out.
Other than two summers (the one after high school graduation and the one after freshman year of college), I lived away beginning in eleventh grade – I went to a boarding school, spent the summer in between 11th and 12th grade on a college campus taking courses. I had financial support from family during those last two years of high school but all my educational experiences (summer school, college, graduate degree) were covered by scholarships and stipends. My family let me know if I needed help they would provide it and at time surprised me by covering a few expenses (a new set of tires, etc.).
I discussed this with my family once and I stated I felt like I wasn’t on my “own” until I finished my post-grad medical training; however, my parents perspective was that I really had been living away/had limited financial support from them since I was 15. I was very, very lucky to have no educational debt which is unusual for most MDs and that made it easier in residency, fellowship, etc.
I don’t know if there should be hard/fast rules but it seems like for most children, unless they have severe cognitive/medical issues, should be expected to complete high school and if they remain at home after HS to contribute by attending school or full-time employment. If possible, if they are living there (parent’s house full time) they should pay some rent/something towards expenses OR otherwise take on additional chores/maintenance of the home. The amount of money would mean less than reinforcing the concept that they are now an adult and if they remain there need to transition to contributing to the household more than they did as an adolescent.
Plus, to a degree, yes, if they are still in the parents home, they should have respect for house rules. Now, some parents might take it to the extreme but if the parents say no alcohol, no parties, no drugs, etc. in the home, the adult child should respect that.
I think it depends on the circumstances. I’m in my 30s and live at home due to college debt and unemployment. My family own ranches in Mexico where several generations live, so it’s not unusual for children to remain at home. Also, my parents need care, but can’t afford outside long-term care. Unfortunately, one branch of the family has adopt the “go out when you’re 18 and ignore your family except for the rare holiday” while the other branch has stayed more traditional, but is in another state.
I’m almost serious. *Everyone *contributes around here, each in their own way. With very little ones, the trick is finding things they can do that don’t make more work for you, because all kids under 6 *want *to help out desperately. Between 10 and 14, things can get a little more challenging with them not wanting to help out, but if you take it as read that everyone helps out, it’s not that much of a struggle, it’s just the way it is.
