I see that there hasn’t been a post on here for quite some time however I do have a question for
anyone that could possible help me with this.
Say I only want to do legal aid work for the disenfranchise are
the prerequisites do the same principles apply.
In at least some states you can do legal aid work as a paralegal. However, that requires certification as a paralegal.
No matter what state you reside in, and what their qualifications are, a working knowledge of the English language will be required. You’ll need to start there.
Lots of interesting responses. It seems that the “old” route of studying on your own and showing up for the Bar exam is dead in most places. Some places don’t technically require a full law degree but you have to show some sort of formalized study. E.g. Virginia allows apprenticeships but you have to be a bona-fide apprentice and can’t substitute independent study in the library reading textbooks and watching video lectures.
Are there any law schools that allow you to test out of entire law school classes? E.g. is there a school where instead of taking the full set of classes, you can challenge the final exams for Contract Law 1, Real Estate Law 1 and 2, and Civil Rights 1 and get immediate credit and then take the rest of the stuff for real? That could be a way to accelerate. It seems that lots of undergraduate schools allow this but few postgraduate schools do. Excelsior (in NY) is famous for allowing undergrads to test out of more or less everything.
Only in CA (under the un-ABA-accredited law school program discussed above). Every other state bar recognizes only ABA-accredited law degrees as a prerequisite for sitting for the Bar exam, AFAIK. Maybe not North Dakota or wherever it is that you can still apprentice.
ABA certification requires 58,000 minutes of instruction, of which 45,000 must be in person at the campus, and the student may not enroll in more than 20% in any given semester.
The ABA does allow a JD program to be completed in 24 months, but I’m not aware of any school where that’s actually possible.
One of my buddies parents have a lot of rental properties. There was some issue related to that (I completely forget what) that required them to retain a lawyer. Apparently no way to do it pro-se. This was not going to be cost effective. His mom did some research and found that our state (NM) offers reciprocity to out-of-state bar members, so she could do what she needed to do (but not represent criminal defendants IIRC) if she could be recognized in almost any jurisdiction. I think she found that Puerto Rico was going to be the easiest to pass, so she was working on that.
I think it was some issue with opacity in zoning or city council proceedings, where only a lawyer could request minutes of meetings or some such. I could well be wrong.
Turns out I was wrong: there are six law schools offering 2-year JD programs. It’s also mathematically possible to complete one in two years at Wisconsin, according to its prospectus.
58,000 minutes in only 121, 8 hour, days. Since the average work year is 240 days, why couldn’t you get it done in a year, aside from the fact that no school is offering a 1 year program? Is it just too much knowledge to assimilate or something?
What’s available for someone who needs to be a lawyer (i.e. mastery of the law), but not an attorney (i.e. officer of the court who can represent others)? I don’t necessarily need to be an attorney, or even have a law degree to do what I want to do; what I need is a solid working knowledge of civil law. What’s the fastest, and cheapest, way to go about is? What’s available over the Internet?
There’s a lot of homework to do, for one thing.
A lot of state university systems have undergrad degrees in “legal studies” or something like that, which are a popular choice for people who want to become paralegals and such.
You could do it in a year - assuming a school would allow it - but it would be virtually impossible from an intellectual standpoint. Law school is pretty damn difficult even if you’re only taking 15 credits a semester and not working. The washout rate for my program (9 credits a semester for people who want to work full time) is over 60%.
One of the local law schools here just partnered with UCF to offer a 6-year B.A./J.D. combined program, for what it’s worth.
What is it you want to do?
So did foolsguinea ever get a law license? Inquiring minds want to know!
in case you like legal jargon, the term is pro hac vice – for this time or occasion.
You could do what a lot of law students do and books like the ‘In a Nutshell’ series. For example Contracts (at B&N), Torts. There are also books that synopsize the casebooks like a Schaum’s outline. But you have a prof that expects you know what was discussed in class rather than black letter law, this won’t save you.
I don’t know if they even talk about this anymore, but it’s still true even if cliché. The purpose of law school is not to teach you the law. That’s an ancillary benefit, well, hopefully – but it’s not the primary objective. Why not? Because the law changes for one thing. For another, if you ever need to write a brief to support a motion say, there will almost certainly be case law that both sides can use as support for their position. Generally it will favor one side, sometimes by a wide margin, but not always. And even when it does, are you just going to roll over and play dead? Let’s hope not.
So what happens when you know what the law already says, but need to know what it is likely to say given precedent? That will certainly come up if you’re asked to write an opinion memorandum. You’re client doesn’t want to hear I don’t know. You don’t of course and they understand that. But they’re paying you for your educated opinion. What will the ‘educated’ part consist of? What you memorized in your law classes? You’re way past that point now. So what then?
What you’ll rely on is having learned to think in a way that mirrors the same considerations applied in formulating precedent. IOW, law school teaches you think like a lawyer and for most people, that is no mean feat. Not because it’s always conceptually difficult, although it can be, but mainly because you are required to precise while swimming in imprecision. And the way this is generally done, or used to be anyway in US law schools was with the Socratic method. This seems to be the approach most people learn best from, or at least that’s the official line. It does require a professor who has mastered it or is at least pretty good at it though – which I’ve found to be fairly rare.
In twelve years? He’s probably got seven or eight by now.
I wonder why the US jurisdictions did away with pupilage/apprenticeships totally. Most other jurisdictions have kept a requirement for them, even with the necessities for a law degree and remember the JD is a First Degree in law, a foundation degree.
As it is, you do not become a lawyer by reading law or passing exams. You become one by actually doing the stuff. Its one thing to write an advice on a divorce matter in law school. Its quite another to give that same advice to a real live person in front of you, who by the way has a totally sure shot case, but will run out of money long before…
I read the dissent, hilarious! But I wonder why they’re using hyphens as dashes? It should be an em-dash, not a hyphen, and if the font they’re using isn’t capable of making a dash, then two hyphens in a row are used in the places where an em-dash is required. Using hyphens the way that Scalia does makes it seem like he means compound adjectives, which are nonsensical in the context.
When I was in college, the general rule was that you had three hours of homework or studying for every one hour in class. If we apply that to this equation, you have half a year in class, and a year and a half out of class, for two years total (defining years the way you do, as 240 8-hr work days). That happens to be the length of time for the accelerated courses that some other posters have cited, so it seems to be a pretty good explanation for why it can’t be crammed into half a year.
Huh. Those are the exact words I used when I spoke to the judge, and she just looked at me funny and ordered me to leave her courtroom.
Correct. Two earlier threads that may be of interest:
I attended Western State University which is now Thomas Jefferson School of Law and believe that I completed the route you are contemplating as fast as possible. I started in January of 1992 and graduated in May 1994, took the Bar in July and got results and was admitted in California in November of 1994. I did not have a college degree but did have more than 60 credits.
I do not recommend following this method for even though I did work at both Public Defender offices in San Diego and another short internship I did not make the proper connections in order to obtain employment upon graduation (YMMD.) If all you want is the right to practice, in California you can achieve this in just under 3 years, including swearing in.
Why aren’t ten year old threads identified in some way so one does not waste one’s time answering someone who may be dead?
The date is in the upper left corner. It’s up to you to check it, counselor.
That said it has happened to all of us and is indeed annoying. I did the very same just last week. The only solution, however, is “pay attention.” Alas.
foolsguineau is still an active poster if it makes you feel any better.