No problem, it was just a small nitpick.
Powell does not let a lot of hints drop. But he has. I think the compromises nearly killed him. Little hints have indicated he is Pro-Choice. That is a good start. While he is hawkish, he believes in building a consensus and would have gone a lot father in exhausting diplomatic means if he had the decision. He is very big on “educating yourself out of poverty”. I think he means it for its straightforward value and not some back handed way of promoting school vouchers. Pre-2000 his only major action was in the educational areas.
I wish I knew his environmental stance.
But none of this matters, he has said he will never run and I believe him. His wife has a medical history he doesn’t want dragged through the mud of an election. No presidential election will ever stay to the high ground so he won’t do this to his wife.
Jim
Agreed. McCain is not a desirable person to have in the White House, but he’s better than most other Republicans (except for Guiliani). He’s opposed to pork-barrel spending. He’s opposed to torture. He voted against the Moron Amendment. He understands that we can’t have an efficient government until we get rid of the system of legalized bribery known as campaign finance. He opposed seel tariffs and other poorly-though-out trade restrictions. If he were President, he would have written a big fat veto across the more absurd spending bills.
But most of all, he’s reasonable and polite and not shrill. Most prominent conservatives have gone off their rocker in terms of turning political debate in America into a screeching match. They lob around nonsensical accusations that anyone who’s a liberal is a traitor, a coward, and an ally of the terrorists. They have no scruples about spreading the most outrageous slander imaginable. They see nothing wrong with routinely threatening political opponents with violence, torture, and death. McCain rejects such tactics. He’s almost the only prominent conservative to reject such tactics. (Which may be related to the fact that exactly those tactics were used on him in the 2000 primary, but still.)
I won’t speak for your other comrades, but for me personally, McCain represents not a mouthpiece but a man. A man who happens to disagree with me on many issues, but someone who is intelligent, says what he means, and means what he says.
Unlike certain Presidents (who will remain anonymous :rolleyes: ), McCain will not say, “federal funds should never be used to take life” while dropping bombs on brown people. McCain may want to prosecute abortion doctors, but given that you believe abortion is morally wrong, prosecuting the people who perform abortion is the logical solution (as opposed to villifying the patrons). McCain would probably have understood that someone who went to Vietnam and may or may not have earned medals scores infinitely more points than someone who evaded combat duty and may or may not have even showed up to the Air National Guard.
Of course, someone who is intelligent and has a self-consistent progressive philosophy would be best, but the idea is that someone who is intelligent and has a self-consistent conservative philosophy will do less damage than someone who travels wherever the political winds blow.
Well, it’s the old issue of character versus ideology. Is it better for vote for a jackass whose positions I agree with, or a principled guy whose positions I disagree with?
For me, it’s a mix of the two, though ideology has a slight edge. So I’d probably vote for most potential Dem nominees over McCain, but I would definitely give McCain real consideration.
Anyone who says John McCain is a conservative either doesn’t know what a conservative is or doesn’t know what John McCain stands for. McCain opposes tax cuts, is in favor of gun control, supports a job-killing global warming law, supports anti-free speech laws like campaign finance reform, and essentially supports enlarging government in ways to various to mention. The man is essentially a Democrat.
I’m also mystified how anyone could think he’s principled. The man is an out-and-out charlatan who plays the media like a fiddle. Of course the media love him because his political views are essentially those of the Washington Post editorial page. His stances on issues changed quite quickly from conservative to basically liberal as soon as he started getting good press on the issue of regulating tobacco companies in 1998. I worked on Capitol Hill then and witnessed the transformation. He was a fairly low-profile Senator until his chairmanship of the Commerce Committee resulted in him being picked to champion a bill that would regulate tobacco. The media loved it, and although the bill died he found that if he were to be “principled” and champion issues supported by the media (gun control, campaign finance reform, etc.) he would get great press. That’s been the strategy he’s followed ever since.
And of course the Democrats and liberals love the guy. Who wouldn’t love someone from the opposition party who votes your way and causes headaches for his party’s leadership? It’s the same reason Zell Miller was the Republican’s favorite Democrat.
And I must also take issue with the assertion that he’s well-respected on the Hill. He certainly is not. He’s a hothead who is well-known for his irrational behavior and violent temper. I even heard one Republican Senator say, in 2000, that if McCain got the nomination he would consider voting Democratic because it would be a disaster to have a nutjob like McCain in the White House.
Not even close. McCain has become physically violent with Senators with whom he disagreed. I know of at least one Senator he was confrontational with and shoved during a debate on gun control.
Voted YES on cutting taxes by $1.35 trillion over 11 years. (May 2001)
Voted YES on phasing out the estate tax (“death tax”). (Jul 2000)
Voted YES on requiring super-majority for raising taxes. (Apr 1998)
Rated 72% by NTU, indicating “Satisfactory” on tax votes. (Dec 2003)
Voted YES on banning lawsuits against gun manufacturers for gun violence. (Mar 2004)
Voted NO on background checks at gun shows. (May 1999)
Voted YES on more penalties for gun & drug violations. (May 1999)
Voted YES on loosening license & background checks at gun shows. (May 1999)
Repeal ban on new roads in wilderness due to bad process. (Dec 1999)
Voted YES on confirming Gale Norton as Secretary of Interior. (Jan 2001)
Strength Clean Air & Water Acts; but not Kyoto
I’ll give you that one - not that I think campaign finance reform is anti-free speech, though.
…and I don’t see how anybody who actually looks at his voting record could mistake him for anything other than a conservative Republican who happens to disagree with the party on a handful of issues.
Granted, the cite is somewhat dated, but do you have anything to back up your assertion that he votes like a Democrat? Because I’m seeing a hell of a lot of stuff he’s voted for that no self-respecting Democrat would vote for.
Sounds more like the voting record of a Senator to me. Ever notice Kerry’s voting record? It was all over the place too and he voted sometimes for things that ran counter to the standard liberal creed.
Look, why don’t you turn it around? You’ve asked why liberals like McCain and several liberals have told you that they in fact do and why…a search on this board in the last few years will bring up plenty of folks who considered either moderate or left leaning who have said they like McCain…or at least that they like him more than most other ‘conservatives’ out there.
Ask Conservatives if THEY like the guy…and I’m talking about hard line paleo-Conservatives and right wing religious types (you will probably have to go to another message board though…I think most of those are extinct on this one :)). Ask economic conservatives if THEY like him (John Mace put in an appearence here disagreeing with me…ask him). If you get an answer back that they do then well and good…I’m wrong about him. However, if you get an answer back that they don’t (which to me is pretty clear since he didn’t really do well with any of those groups, Bush having beaten him and all), and looking at the answers of some liberals who do…well, wouldn’t that suggest something to you? That perhaps simply looking at his voting record in the past for his entire career may not be what liberals OR conservatives are using to judge their likes or dislikes?
Or I suppose you could simply keep throwing cites out showing that even though some liberals have said they like him, they really don’t…or they really shouldn’t I guess. Or something.
So you’re telling me that a senator got more media coverage when he became chairman of a prominent committee? And then he decided to use that coverage to increase exposure for his own positions? That’s hardly surprising and doesn’t say anything bad about McCain’s character. In fact, some might say it’s laudable.
McCain is a Teddy Roosevelt Republican: He likes small government but doesn’t have a “it’s all those poor people’s own fault” attitude about social programs. He’s big on protecting the environment. He is stridently anti-pork, as his opposition to the highway bill (of “bridge-to-nowhere” fame) and the energy bill clearly demonstrate.
Let’s look at his recent voting record, which has been a little lacking in the posts so far. All information is from Congressional Quarterly:
2004
NO on passage of a $318.9 billion highway bill
NO on extending the assault weapons ban for 10 years
YES to restore “pay-as-you-go” rules for tax cuts and entitlement spending
YES to criminalize harm to a fetus in an attack on the mother
YES to increase mandatory child care funding to states by $6 billion over five years
NO on amending the Constitution to prohibit same-sex marriage
YES on $146 billion extension of middle-class tax breaks
YES on reorganizing U.S. intelligence in line with the 9/11 Commission’s report
2003
YES on delaying Bush changes to the Clean Air Act
YES on allowing confirmation vote on judicial nominee Miguel A. Estrada
YES on blocking a proposal to open ANWR to oil drilling
NO on limiting the size of proposed tax cuts to $350 billion through 2013
NO on creating a Medicare prescription drug benefit
NO on blocking a Bush rule scaling back OT pay for some white-collar workers
NO on splitting half of $20 billion in Iraq aid into loans
YES on banning partial-birth abortions
YES on blocking a proposal to allow travel to Cuba
NO on allowing a final vote on an energy policy overhaul
What I see here is a man who is truly conservative and quite hawkish. But he also doesn’t want to throw the baby out with the bathwater (i.e. enshrining discrimination into the constitution or reducing filibuster powers in the Senate). He is also what “fiscally conservative” used to mean: not spending lavishly on conservative policies, but just being smart with your money.
His party unity score was 79 percent in 2004. Pretty low compared to his fellow GOP senators, but also 12 points higher than it was in 2001.
I don’t know much about the fiscal policies of McCain. When I said he was conservative, I meant social conservative-- the kind the left wing loves to hate. Sure, he’s no Pat Robertson or “fag-hater”, but ask him about Faith Based initiatives, abortion, flag burning, gay marriage… those types of things.
Would you vote for him John? And I don’t mean as a choice between him and, say, another Bush, but as your primary candidate? You once called me on my endorsement of McCain a couple of years ago (you probably don’t remember but I did :)) and I couldn’t really give you any reasons except personal ones that I’d vote for the guy. When I actually looked into him without rose colored glasses I had to admit that his philosophy really doesn’t align with my own (fiscal conservative, social moderate). What surprised me was that when I asked social conservatives about McCain they didn’t like him either, saying he wasn’t REALLY a social conservative.
Yeah, I would, if he was running against a Democrat I thought was too liberal.
The only time I’ve voted **for **someone (as opposed to voting for the lesser of two evils) was when I voted for Reagan. I’m not a big fan of McCain’s, but I can think of a lot worse from both parties.
Thank you for the new data. There actually reinforces my already held view - the man is a conservative. Any liberal who says they would vote for him needs to take a good hard look at his positions first.
I have to think that any liberal who likes or dislikes him is basing their view on him as a person (that’s also been reinforced here), and I think he’s a good person. I like him as a person. I have respect for what he’s done in his life. I could easily accept him as President if he defeated my candidate. But he could never be my candidate, and it would take an incredibly bad Democrat to get me to vote for him.
One reason for a lot of left leaning love of McCain is perhaps explained by the posts of conservatives in this thread, which reflect the opinions of what seems to be a fair amount of conservatives in the media: that McCain is a closet liberal. I think a lot of actual liberals here the anti-McCain rhetoric coming from some conservatives and think “hey, cool, McCain’s really one of us!”
I take no position on whether McCain is lib or con, as I don’t really know. The cites given in this thread seem to support the con view, though.
Also not every conservative on this board thinks McCain is a closet liberal. Sam Stone started a thread a while back asking the same question as black445, with much the same sense of bewilderment.
I’m as liberal as anyone in the mainstream, and I don’t have the hots for McCain. Of any prominent Republican, sure he’s someone I could live with as president. But there are plenty of true Democrats that I’d certainly vote for before him.
To be fair to the guy, he’s been in the Senate for a while. Being a Senator means you cast votes. Sometimes those votes are reluctant ones, agreeing to x only because it happens to be packaged with y. That’s a lot different than supporting x directly. So to analyze his voting patterns looking for this or that may or not be fair unless you examine the entirety of each measure that he voted on.
I’m not American, so most of the issues with respect to McCain do not really concern me. However, after seeing him on Larry King last night I was struck by his very real respect for others including past opponents. He doesn’t appear to be constrained by ideology either. This man could be a real consensus builder which is what I think America needs most of all right now.
