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View Full Version : Is this a ground rule double?


Cubsfan
04-17-2003, 03:32 AM
I didn't want this to sink into the abyss with my Jose Canseco thread in the Pit, but hajario posted this in it.

Originally posted by hajario
I'll always remember him as the guy who got hit in the head with that fly ball. The ball bounced off of his head and over the out field fence for a home run.

Haj

Isn't that a ground rule double if a player touches it before it goes over the fence?

Snooooopy
04-17-2003, 03:58 AM
If that were the case, any ball that an outfielder managed to lay even a finger on would be reduced to a double. And that's clearly not the case.

Coriolanus
04-17-2003, 04:05 AM
If it touches a Snoooooopy statue and bounces over the fence - it's a ground rule double.

If a player tries to catch the ball (or even if said player tries to avoid the ball) - and it hits said player - it's a home run.

don't ask
04-17-2003, 04:08 AM
It is if the ball has bounced.

Coriolanus
04-17-2003, 04:24 AM
Originally posted by don't ask
It is if the ball has bounced.
Indeed. Bouncing Balls are sometimes Home Runs.

If the ball skips over the wall - it's the umpire's call. Otherwise, even if the ball is caught in some gnarly ivy in Wrigley Field - the ball is in play and runners may advance at their own risk.

MSU 1978
04-17-2003, 07:52 AM
In theory, if an extremely well hit line drive glances off the shortstop's glove and goes over the fence in fair territory, home run. If it goes over in foul territory, double. Also, any ball the strikes the pitcher's rubber (sounds painful, doesn't it?) and goes over the fence in foul territory is a double.

asterion
04-17-2003, 08:26 AM
Of course, it will depend on the park. Different parks have different rules and different ways of handling situations that may or may not be specific to that park. After all, basically all but Wrigley Field don't need rules on what happens when a ball gets stuck in ivy on the fence.

troub
04-17-2003, 09:39 AM
asterion is partially right. Each park lists its own ground rules (http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/stl/ballpark/stl_ballpark_groundrules.jsp) on its web site (and I think I've heard them read at games, too). However, the major issues concerning what's a double and what's a home run are covered in the Official Rules, section 6.09 (http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/baseball_basics/mlb_basics_batter.jsp).
(e) A fair ball, after touching the ground, bounds into the stands, or passes through, over or under a fence, or through or under a scoreboard, or through or under shrubbery, or vines on the fence, in which case the batter and the runners shall be entitled to advance two bases; (f) Any fair ball which, either before or after touching the ground, passes through or under a fence, or through or under a scoreboard, or through any opening in the fence or scoreboard, or through or under shrubbery, or vines on the fence, or which sticks in a fence or scoreboard, in which case the batter and the runners shall be entitled to two bases; (g) Any bounding fair ball is deflected by the fielder into the stands, or over or under a fence on fair or foul territory, in which case the batter and all runners shall be entitled to advance two bases; (h) Any fair fly ball is deflected by the fielder into the stands, or over the fence into foul territory, in which case the batter shall be entitled to advance to second base; but if deflected into the stands or over the fence in fair territory, the batter shall be entitled to a home run. However, should such a fair fly be deflected at a point less than 250 feet from home plate, the batter shall be entitled to two bases only.

Jonathan Chance
04-17-2003, 09:40 AM
While there are specific ground rules for individual parks (Wrigley's includes what happens if a ball goes down a drainage grate...no foolin') players are not considered 'part of the field' per MLB rules, I believe. So if a ball caroms off a player and then goes over the wall without touching anything else that is considered 'part of the field' it's a home run.

IIRC, however, umpires are considered 'part of the field'. If a ball hits an umpire and goes over the outfield wall it would be a GRD.

asterion
04-17-2003, 10:53 AM
Originally posted by troub
asterion is partially right. Each park lists its own ground rules (http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/stl/ballpark/stl_ballpark_groundrules.jsp) on its web site (and I think I've heard them read at games, too). However, the major issues concerning what's a double and what's a home run are covered in the Official Rules, section 6.09 (http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/baseball_basics/mlb_basics_batter.jsp).

You're right. I oversimplified. What I meant was that, while some rules come down from on high and apply everywhere, parks have their own rules as well to deal with situations caused by the design. After all, unless you're playing in a dome, you probably don't have to worry about what happens when the ball hits the ceiling or a loudspeaker. (I know this happened, but I don't remember what happened and whether the rule was a park rule or an MLB rule.)

RM Mentock
04-17-2003, 12:39 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the player has to maintain control of the ball too--so if the continuation of his stride causes him to collide with the wall and drop the ball, he hasn't really caught it. If he drops it over the wall--even if he controlled it--it'd be a homerun.

bayonet1976
04-17-2003, 01:44 PM
Originally posted by asterion
After all, unless you're playing in a dome, you probably don't have to worry about what happens when the ball hits the ceiling or a loudspeaker. (I know this happened, but I don't remember what happened and whether the rule was a park rule or an MLB rule.)

Dome hits are covered by ground rules, I know this because at Tropicana field, home of the technically-professional-team Devil Rays, if a ball hits the front of a walkway that crosses the roof it's a double, anything beyond that is a homerun. And since this thread started with a mention of Canseco, I'll mention that the reason I know this rule is because I saw him get a homerun in just this way during his stint with the Devil Rays.

Jonathan Chance
04-17-2003, 07:44 PM
They have professional baseball in Tampa?

BobT
04-17-2003, 07:53 PM
Really pedantic baseball fans will tell you that balls that bounce over the fence are not ground rule doubles, but rather "automatic doubles".

A ground rule double would be a double that happens because of an event that occurs as part of some unusual field condition.

And despite what anyone tells you, no MLB in use today has any provision for a "Ground rule triple". That's not to say a team couldn't try to establish one, but there are none now.

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