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View Full Version : Pink Floyd's Final Cut: Love it? Hate it?


Astroboy14
12-13-2003, 11:55 PM
I was listening to The Final Cut a little while ago. I haven't listened to it for quite a long time, actually, as I've been going through a bit of a Dave Mathews Band jag.

So anyways, I suddenly thought Dang! I LOVE this album!

It's hard to pick the lyrics I love most from TFC, but here's some:

there's a kid who had a big hallucination
making love to girls in magazines
he wonders if you're sleeping with your new found faith
could anybody love him
or is it just a crazy dream
and if I show you my dark side
will you still hold me tonight
and if I open my heart to you
and show you my weak side
what would you do
would you sell your story to rolling stone
would you take the children away
and leave me alone
and smile in reassurance
as you whisper down the phone
would you send me packing
or would you take me home

Dang, I like this album!
:)

So what do you think?

Love it? Why?

Hate it? Why?

Coriolanus
12-14-2003, 12:09 AM
Lotsa love. I have a 'promotion' (LP) copy that was sent WAER (Syracuse) where my brother was program director. It came with an insert flyer that refuted any notion that 'final cut' meant this would be the last Pink Floyd album. ;)

I like "The Gunner's Dream":Floating down through the clouds
Memories come rushing up to meet me now.
In the space between the heavens
And in the corner of some foreign field,
I had a dream,
I had a dream.

UnwrittenNocturne
12-14-2003, 12:12 AM
Love it. Lyrically I think it is one of the better efforts, and Waters manages to make the entire album very intimate. A good prelude to his own "Pros and Cons of HitchHiking".

I may be biased here as I think he really made Pink Floyd what they were and I see this album as being primarily his.

St. Anger
12-14-2003, 12:18 AM
This CD got 5 stars, and "instant classic" rating by Rolling Stone, when it came out in 1983. In retrospect, while a highly unpopular album, from an artistic standpoint, it's hard to argue its not at least in the 4 star category.

I LOVE it, and I hate it, too.

I hated that it was so unlike the Wall. When I learned more about it, that it was Roger Walters tribute to his father who died in WW2, and a commentary on post WW2 England, I loved it, especially after my girlfriend broke up with the Saint in 1989 and I listened to it, it was so much doom and gloom, it was really good to listen to at the time.

Now that I listen to it, it's harder to get into. It really does not play very well on the speakers.

That said, it's a worthwhile album. What I like about it is how political it is, with direct references to early 1980s politics. In essence, it's a political protest album by Pink Floyd. That, somehow, has to be VERY cool.

"John Fletcher Memorial Home" is one of the most depressing songs I ever heard. "Not Now John" would have been a bigger song had it not sounded like a Wall cast off. "Southampton Dock" makes me want to drown myself in those last three cold beers sitting in the fridge.

Yeah . . it's a hell of an album, but not one you want to immerse yourself in if you need to be Mr. Good Cheer the next day.

St. Anger
12-14-2003, 12:26 AM
Here is Kurt Loder's semi-notorious review from 1983:

http://www.rollingstone.com/reviews/cd/review.asp?aid=40401&cf=1110

friedo
12-14-2003, 12:42 AM
I love The Final Cut, despite the mediocre reviews it often gets. But then I've always been a fan of their latter stuff; Ummagumma and Atom Heart Mother sound like fingernails on a blackboard to me.

My favorites, in no particular order:
Dark Side of the Moon
The Wall
Division Bell
The Final Cut
Momentary Lapse of Reason
Wish You Were Here

Baggins111
12-14-2003, 12:56 AM
Dammit! You made me have to dust this one off and play it. And I was getting ready to go to bed.

It ain't no Animals or Dark Side of the Moon, but....

I'm like St. Anger Love it and hate it. I do love it, as it is a well written concept album. It works together as a whole. There's not too many songs on there that stand on their own other than The Gunner's Dream - my personal fav. I haven't listened to it in probably 8 years and I'm singing right along with the album - it has been that deeply ingrained into my mind.

The part that I hate is that it is soooo depressing. It really is pretty much an all Roger Waters ego effort. It ends up being an appendix to The Wall. You really have to be in a good mood to listen to it. Otherwise, you just might make that final cut.

On a different note: this album amde me look up the definition to "glitterati."

KingLupid
12-14-2003, 03:01 AM
I think its their best, meself. That being said, I don't listen to it anymore; far too depressing. I still have miles to go before I sleep, and this one makes you start thinking about the road not taken.

aaslatten
12-14-2003, 10:50 AM
I think it's Roger Waters' masterpiece, but not the best Pink Floyd album, if you get my meaning.

rexnervous
12-14-2003, 11:34 AM
Oh God, I haven't heard this album in years, but even the first two song lyrics listed have me thinking about buying it.

From what I recall, love it.

neutron star
12-14-2003, 01:11 PM
Originally posted by Baggins111
There's not too many songs on there that stand on their own other than The Gunner's Dream - my personal fav.

I don't know. I thought "The Fletcher Memorial Home" stood pretty well on its own. In fact, it was released as a single with a video.

And they can appear to themselves every day
On closed-circuit T.V.
To make sure they're still real.
It's the only connection they feel.

"Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome, Reagan and Haig,
Mr. Begin and friend, Mrs. Thatcher, and Paisly,
Mr. Brezhnev and party.
The ghost of McCarthy,
The memories of Nixon.
And now, adding color, a group of anonymous
Latin-American Meat packing glitterati."

Did they expect us to treat them with any respect?
They can polish their medals and sharpen their
Smiles, and amuse themselves playing games for awhile.
Boom boom, bang bang, lie down you're dead.


As for the OP, I'd say for the most part that The Final Cut had brilliant lyrics set to rather bland music. A good example would be the guitar solo from "Fletcher," which they might as well have titled "Generic Floyd Solo #7." I think the group was at their best in the mid-to-late '70s, when Watters's and Gilmour's talents and ideas were able to coexist more peacefully.

While the Watters-less efforts A Momentary Lapse of Reason and The Division Bell suffered for a want of decent lyrics, the music was far better. Overall, I prefer both albums to The Final Cut.

Astroboy14
12-14-2003, 04:37 PM
Originally posted by neutron star
While the Watters-less efforts A Momentary Lapse of Reason and The Division Bell suffered for a want of decent lyrics, the music was far better. Overall, I prefer both albums to The Final Cut.

Hmm. I'd agree that those two albums were better musically than TFC, but I really miss Water's lyricism... I tend to listen to music for the lyrics more than anything else.

Oddly enough, I don't find TFC to be depressing at all! Every time I listen to it I end up with a big silly grin on my face. Like this: :)
The lyrics are just so good that I end up happy having heard them in spite of the depressing subject matter. I guess I'm just weird.

In the same way, I Love a line from Animals, despite it being one of the dumbest things ever written outside an angst-ridden teenage crush:

Wave upon wave of demented avengers march cheerfully out of obscurity into the dream

That's just stupid! But it's so, erm, cheerfully stupid that I can't help but love it! And that line comes shortly after what I feel is the best line on the whole album:

You fucked up old hag, Ha ha! Charade you are/ You radiate cold shafts of broken glass

Oh, man! I love it! Now I have to go find Animals...

Rubystreak
12-14-2003, 05:14 PM
I LOVE THIS ALBUM. I've been listening to it on a fairly regular basis for the last two decades and it never fails to astound, depress, and enlighten me. I totally agree with every word of Kurt Loder's review.

My favorite lines are from the Final Cut, already quoted here (many is the time I've cried listening to THAT track), and from
"Gunner's Dream":

Where you can speak out loud
about your doubts and fears
and what's more no-one ever disappears
you never hear their standard issue kicking in your door
you can relax on both sides of the tracks
and maniacs don't blow holes in bandsmen by remote control
and everyone has recourse to the law
and no-one kills the children anymore

I find it amazing how Waters (in my opinion, the single greatest rock lyricist of all time, period, and no one will ever convince me otherwise) can sing something in such a way as to totally contradict it with his tone. I'd give a specific example, but the whole album is rife with his stunning, ironic delivery.

Also, how can anyone not love an album where there is a chorus of girls in the background singing "Fuck all that! Fuck all that!"?

Murcielago
12-14-2003, 06:04 PM
I like it a lot, though I find myself listening to Waters' Amused to Death album more often. For me, there is more going on musically and the lyrics hit me a bit harder. Amused was the album that led me to discover the Floyd, so I'll always have a soft spot for it.

BTW, I picked up this Dark Side DVD (http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?PID=6140433&frm=sh_google)last week. Lots of good stuff in there about the making of that album and about the creative process in general. Recent interviews and performances, not a reworking of old material.

haardvark
12-14-2003, 06:13 PM
I was a Floyd junkie for years in HS...this album was always my favourite, and I certainly felt like I was the ONLY ONE to REALLY UNDERSTAND it. Whenever I listen to it now, I see myself wandering around with a cassette walkman and a black acid wash jean jacket, intensely smoking cigarettes, late at night. Ah, memories...

Yeah, I think this one is still my fave overall. It may not hit the highest highs (like Hey You or the guitar riff in Pigs) but it is the best one across all tracks IMHO (esp. if you listen on headphones to hear all the kewl effects...)

A relief to learn I am not the only fan!

Sublight
12-14-2003, 10:01 PM
Sweetheart, sweetheart, are you fast asleep?
Good.
That's the only time that I can really speak to you.
There is something that I've locked away
A memory that is too painful to withstand the light of day.

Love it, but not something I can listen to too often. On its own, the music isn't particularly impressive, but it suits the lyrics perfectly, in my opinion.

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