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Lobsang
09-12-2004, 09:28 PM
By that I mean dopers actively engaged in trying to induce lucid dreams.


A lucid dream is one where you are able to realize that you are dreaming without suddenly waking up. The realization that you are dreaming is effectively 'waking up' inside the dream. You are suddenly as conscious as you are when awake. This results in an ability to control the qualities of the dream consciously. You can fly and add any person or object to the dream.


A few years ago I was into them, and from what I could learn from newsgroup alt.fan.lucid-dreaming (sp?) I managed to have some (about 5 or 6 in my whole lifetime)


Due to dissapointing results I eventually gave up the techniques. Now I am thinking I would like to start again. I have a will to stop drinking for a week (to regain a clear head) and that would be a good time to try lucid dreaming (they say it's impossible to lucid dream if you have been drinking)

AncientHumanoid
09-12-2004, 11:04 PM
When I tried, it never worked. But I have have several periods of life where lucid dreaming was fairly common. Hadn't happened for quite some years except for a particularly surreal one just a few months back.

FTR, I do not put much in dream interpretation. This is just some more odd shit that happens to me. I sometimes think I'm an alien trapped in a Human body, because over and over I am reminded by people that I do not think like they do.

Can sometimes be fun, but why do you think my real life nickname is NoClueBoy?

HPL
09-13-2004, 01:15 AM
I don't know if it counts, but I've had dreams where I find myself in a sticky situation(say, I'm about to die, or I've fallen into a deep pit) and somehow WILL myself to go back in time, before I was in that predictament.

One dream had me being arrested by the Government for smoking pot(Something I don't do in real life) and put in front of a military tribunal. I am sentenced to death and killed by piranhas in the amazon river. Then I find myself back when I was arrested and put under guard.

Knowing I'm going to die, I break out and kill many of the armed guards with my bare hands. Later, I even open a wall safe by listening at it and then pull it out of the wall. I wanted a gun and suddenly one appeared in my hands.

I KNEW I shouldn't have been able to do those things, and while I don't think I realized it was a dream, I could do pretty much anything I wanted by just wanting to do it.

That may not be lucid dreaming, but it's the closest I've had. It's a rare thing and I enjoy them when they happen.

N. Sane
09-13-2004, 09:07 AM
I've never tried to make myself have lucid dreams, but I do it frequently. Last week I was having a very frightening dream (I think I had it three times in a row). Each time I was able to stop and sort of rewind it because my dream self did something that I just flat wouldn't do.

How would one go about trying to cause lucid dreaming?

Annie-Xmas
09-13-2004, 09:11 AM
I have horrible insomnia, and I've had dreams where I am on my floormat trying to fall asleep. As soon as I realize it's a dream, I can make something happen. Usually a very bad something. I've been shot in the back of my head by my lesbian sister, run over by a train, had my fingers chopped off, and a lot of other nasty things. That always proves to me it's a dream.

On August 31, 1997 I dreamed a big black car ran over me. Than I woke up and found our about Princess Di's death. It did freak me out.

KidCharlemagne
09-13-2004, 09:19 AM
What techniques were you using? The "Am I Dreaming?" check during the day doesn't work because you take it for granted when you're awake and then do the same when you're asleep. I was an occasional lucid dreamer and now have them all the time. I trained myself by using this: http://www.invisibleclock.com/ set to go off every 20 minutes. Look at the time, look away, then look at the time again. If you're dreaming it won't be the same time. I'd bet you'd have your first time check in your dream within a couple days. The key is not waking up when you realize the time was different. One way is to imagine yourself spinning and falling backward as soon as you see a different time.

Lobsang
09-13-2004, 11:57 AM
How would one go about trying to cause lucid dreaming?

Basically you train yourself to do reality checks all the time. In your waking moments you check things that can't be sustained in dreams. For instance you look at a clock, look away, and look back. If the clock has the same time you are awake, if it has a very different time or has changed colour or has turned into a bunch of flowers, you are dreaming.

Same for words. In dreams words have difficulty maintaining themselves. Many times have I been dreaming, but assuming I'm not (a normal dream) and been frustrated that the thing I am reading keeps changing.


Anyway, the idea is that if you make checking a habit, it is likely to remain a habit in your dreams, and if you do it and find that you are dreaming, and manage to stay dreaming, you have turned it into a lucid dream.


A good lucid dream is a rush. You feel as aware as if you are awake, but you can do super-human things.

Lobsang
09-13-2004, 12:03 PM
Whoops. I shoul have read KidCharlemagne's post.


My problem is I'm a very light sleeper. As soon as I realize I am dreaming I pop awake.

FTR, I do not put much in dream interpretation

Neither do I.

AncientHumanoid
09-13-2004, 12:04 PM
It's a dream, Alex! You can do anything you want!

Lobsang
09-13-2004, 12:09 PM
That sound familiar. What's it from?

dotchan
09-13-2004, 12:29 PM
Some Dream Descriptions (http://www.livejournal.com/tools/memories.bml?user=dotchan&keyword=Weird+Ass+Dreams&filter=all)

I don't really remember how I started lucid dreaming. It just sort of did, as an exercise in attempting to levitate.

In the last few years, though, I've started to regret messing with my head. (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=263125) But only just a little. Mostly I'm annoyed that I can't remember more after I wake up. I've had some damn good ideas while I was dreaming.

audiobottle
09-13-2004, 12:54 PM
I looked into lucid dreaming about... oh... 6 years ago I think. At the time, I tried conditioning myself to look at the clock, look at something, look away, look back at it, etc, etc. I also remember it was closely linked to meditation (at least the sites I looked at were), so I started to do that. I don't think I ever actually experienced a lucid dream (at least, not to the point where I was actively controlling the environment knowing that I was dreaming - I've definitely had experiences like other posters have said, i.e. feeling something was odd, changing things in the dream world but not realizing that it was a dream), but I did start keeping a very good dream record. I don't believe a bit in dream interpretation, but it's pretty fun to read over my old dreams. Ever since I started the journal, they've been getting more and more detailed, with complex plots and many characters. Maybe I'll try the lucid dreaming thing again.

AncientHumanoid
09-13-2004, 12:56 PM
That sound familiar. What's it from?


Dreamscape (http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0087175/)

Lobsang
09-13-2004, 12:59 PM
Mostly I'm annoyed that I can't remember more after I wake up. I've had some damn good ideas while I was dreaming.

Often I have dreams that feel like they would surely make an amazing sci-fi story but I can never put the essence of them into words without losing most of it.

Ghanima
09-13-2004, 02:44 PM
Occasionally I do lucid dream, but I never have the level of control I want to have. I often realize I'm dreaming and will do various things, but I find myself limited to the parameters of the dream oftentimes. For example, I dream I'm at a formal dinner and realize I'm dreaming, so I go over and kiss the woman across from me just to see what happens, but I can't escape the room or make her react the way I want her to. But I still derive great satisfaction out of these kinds of dreams.
I often have dreams about driving, and invariably they involve the car not responding, so now when I find myself behind the wheel in a dream, I will stop the vehicle or refuse to drive it because I know what will happen. Funny that I can refuse to drive in my dreams but I am unable to make the car behave normally.

dotchan[b/], I too am sometimes uncomfortable or frustrated with my lucid dreams. I think they are a mixed blessing. Sometimes I wake up and wonder if I should be committed to an insane asylum!

[b]LobsangOne time I had this amazing dream that I swear I am going to write into a science fiction novel, it was totally amazing. I woke up in utter awe at the creativity of my sleeping brain...

BTW, avoid marijuana and alcohol or any other depressants if you want to do this type of dreaming. Marijuana especially. (One of the side effects of quitting smoking pot is extraordinary dreams, including lucid dreaming.)

Yllaria
09-13-2004, 03:01 PM
I can't help with causing lucid dreaming, I've just always done it. I remember reading an article about it during college and being shocked that so many people didn't know when they were dreaming. I mean, you can levitate in dreams. You can teleport. You can remember what's going to happen and work to keep it from happening. How can you not know that's a dream?

I can count on two fingers the number of times I was dreaming and didn't know it. Both times the dream was about going through my regular daily routine: no odd events, no odd archetecture, no collapsed or noticably variable time. Once was in junior high, the other was at work. Both times a woke up just before lunch and then had to do the day over.

The only thing I can think to contribute is the daydreaming. I've always daydreamed a lot - long involved storylines kept going for weeks. That kind of practice may help you recognize when you're dreaming. I must warn you that it won't help with much else.

Lobsang
09-13-2004, 04:21 PM
...How can you not know that's a dream?...

I've watched alien spaceships land on top of my neighbours house and not known I was dreaming.

More often than not something really weird happens that doesn't make me realize I am dreaming. It just doesn't register as being out of the ordinary to my dreaming brain.


One of the other LD techniques is working out what common things happen in your dream and then training yourself to associate that thing with asking yourself "Am I dreaming?" so the next time you are dreaming and you see this thing you ask the question and then do a check.


I often have quite lucid awareness of my hypnagogic (halfway into or out of being asleep, before and after sleep) imagery.

Alessan
09-13-2004, 05:19 PM
Has anyone ever read a short story called "The Kings of Tarshish Shall Bring Gifts'' by Stephen R. Donaldson? I think of it anytime someone mentions luckid dreaming.

lissener
09-13-2004, 06:59 PM
I haven't had a NON-lucid dream that I'm aware of since the seventies. I always know I'm dreaming. Sometimes I can control it, and sometimes I just use it to wake me up. It's not always possible to control it: I have a lot of dreams about not being able to wake up. Shudder.

Lobsang
09-13-2004, 08:07 PM
It amazes me that people, including those in this thread, lucid dream all the time. The few that I've had have been memorable experiences and have felt nothing like ordinary dreams (which themselves are usually special). Even though the fear of losing them has reduced their quality and length somewhat, they've still been very special.


I suppose any rarely experienced phenomenon is special.

Lobsang
09-13-2004, 08:12 PM
Mind you, Lucid dreaming has it's cons. I've heard that being conscious as you are when awake, in a dream intruduces order and mundaneness (not a word I know) to the dream beyond the mind's control. In an ordinary dream the docile mind is caught up in the wildly random creation of the, er, bit that makes the dreams. A conscious mind is, I suppose working on the creation in the same way it works on sensory input during the day. In an ordinary dream you've got one part of the mind authoring the dream. In a Lucid dream you've got two.


That's all speculation of course. There's still the HUGE thrill of being conscious of your dream experience.

wonder9
09-13-2004, 08:35 PM
I didn't know there was a name for it. I've been "lucid dreaming" for years I guess. I almost always its a dream. Just this morning I had a dream where a car I was in drove off of a road and into a gully (probably a trace memory from the car accident recently that killed a local high school student). Anyway, as it happened, I sort of snapped my fingers to make it change---I essentially hit the rewind button and played the dream again more to my liking.

I dream vividly almost every night as well, and in color which I didn't realize until I was an adult was a little uncommon. My husband always says I have thin boundries...whatever that means. Sometimes I can't tell if I dreamed something or it really happened.

Paranoid Randroid
09-13-2004, 08:38 PM
Huh. Recently I dreamt that aliens were attacking, but I had some sort of mechanized suit that would allow me to combat the aliens easily. The government took away the suit just when there was an unconscious alien in my house.

If I could have known I was dreaming, and controlled what happened - now that would have been cool. Could have gotten my suit back and fought some ailens and government agents all night long. Instead, I think the dream just went off on some boring tangent. Hrmph. I've got to read about this.

wonder9
09-13-2004, 08:40 PM
I almost always its a dream.
I almost always KNOW it's a dream...

Sorry, must of dozed off there for a second...

Lobsang
09-13-2004, 08:54 PM
... and in color which I didn't realize until I was an adult was a little uncommon...

That's news to me. I dream in colour and sound.

My husband always says I have thin boundries...whatever that means. Sometimes I can't tell if I dreamed something or it really happened.

Me too.

lissener
09-13-2004, 10:46 PM
Yeah, I've heard it said that women dream in color, men dream in BW. No cite; just "heard it somewhere."

Well I dream in full-on real-world color; always have, AFAIK.

Glassy
09-13-2004, 10:53 PM
I have a friend who, once he realizes he's dreaming, can take total control of the dream, punch out the bad guys, and fly away into the clouds.

Not me. Like Ghanima, I can sometimes influence the dream, but I'm still bound by the parameters of the dream. I don't know if this counts as lucid dreaming or not.

Let's say I'm having one of those frustration dreams -- I'm in school, I'm late for class, I wander the halls searching for the classroom, etc. etc. I sometimes realize that this is a dream. I can break the cycle of the dream, but it takes an act of intense concentration. I can't just do whatever I want - it's too hard - but I can sometimes force myself to find the damn classroom, and once I get there the dream goes off in another, usually pleasanter direction.

I have never realized, while in the dream, that I graduated from college over ten years ago and the whole classroom dilemma is some sort of hold-over from the days of yore. That realization only comes when I truly wake up.

Oregon sunshine
09-13-2004, 11:16 PM
My 12-year-old daughter just bounced into the living room today and said to me, "Isn't it fun when you know you are dreaming and you can just play around?" It floored me. I immediately thought of this thread and posted at the first opportunity.

Bryan Ekers
09-14-2004, 12:30 AM
I once slipped into a lucid dream and decided I'd eat the world's biggest marshmallow.

The rest of the day is something I'd rather forget.

CurlyD
09-14-2004, 12:21 PM
Check out The Lucidity Institute's Lucid Dreaming FAQ (http://www.lucidity.com/LucidDreamingFAQ2.html). The only lucid dream I've had so far occurred the night I first read this FAQ.

I got interested in lucid dreaming after seeing the movie Waking Life (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00005YU1O/qid=1095177453/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/103-7356710-8793423?v=glance&s=dvd), which explores the boundaries between dreaming and reality.

BobLibDem
09-14-2004, 12:36 PM
I read somewhere that if in your dreams you can will yourself to look at your hands, it can trigger a lucid dream. I have done it on occasion, but it never lasts more than a few moments. If I could do it longer, I'd conjure up Jennifer Aniston.

KidCharlemagne
09-14-2004, 01:12 PM
I read somewhere that if in your dreams you can will yourself to look at your hands, it can trigger a lucid dream. I have done it on occasion, but it never lasts more than a few moments. If I could do it longer, I'd conjure up Jennifer Aniston.

I conjured up Cindy Crawford once. She was just like I imagined. ;)

Indygrrl
09-14-2004, 05:18 PM
I've gone into lucid dreaming while in sleep paralysis. Usually during sleep paralysis I'm freaking out and trying to move, but if you can be brave and stay still it can take you into lucid dreaming. I'm too scared to do it most of the time, even though I know I'll like it once I get into it.

Lobsang
09-14-2004, 05:25 PM
I forgot about sleep Paralysis. I have never been brave enough.

Next time. I promise myself. Next time!

FilmGeek
09-14-2004, 05:48 PM
I can't control what happens in my dreams, but I'm lucid enough to be able to relax and enjoy it. For example, I'm being chased through a complicated building by shadowy figures out to get me and I can enjoy being able to run up 10 flights of stairs and not be out of breath at the end.

Recently, my being chased and powerless dreams have turned into facing my enemy and beating them at their own game dreams.

I wake up happy. :D

Sir Dirx
09-14-2004, 06:07 PM
Count me in as another one with limited control within the dreams' parameters. I can choose what I do within a dream, but not what happens. For instance, I could know that something bad is going to happen if I continue walking in the direction I'm going, so I decide to go somewhere else instead. I can't control what's waiting for me there; it could even be worse than the other situation, but I can choose how I react to it. And I can't do anything supernatural or whatnot unless the dream is already in that context (like, there was one time I was some kind of superpowered defender of the Earth, and I could do cool stuff then, but I can't if my dream is reliving a school day or something).

And I've always dreamt in color and sound. I'm baffled as to how anyone wouldn't.

SnakeSpirit
09-14-2004, 07:30 PM
I've done this for years, and you can even do it if you've been drinking or high on pot, but it's more difficult, cause of the depressent effect on your consciousness.

First time it was spontaneous (I was meditating a lot back then, and regular meditation is always an assist for any mind exploration), then I started the 'looking at your hands in a dream" technique, by simply telling myself, when in meditation, or as I'm falling alseep that: "while I am dreaming, I will look at my hands and become conscious in my dream." It takes some practice.

I also discovered that instead of flying around enjoying fantasies, I could go and visit other people who were asleep and dreaming. I could travel OOB, and contact other people. I started visiting someone I met online, and it turned into a sexual thing that we independently documented and verified.

I've gotten to the point where I can also enter lucid dreaming from meditation. You dream and meditate both in the same brainwave frequency (Alpha), so it's just a matter of getting deep enough that you are no longer aware of your physical surroundings, and the dream space takes over.

I lost interest over the years though; "been there, done that" took over. If I could find additional applications, I'd do it more.

BTW: ggrl encourage your daughter. Talk to her about her dreams, make it a fun thing for her to do, a fun thing to share with you, and tell her to never be afraid, since it's her dream, nothing can ever hurt her. That's true.

squeegee
09-14-2004, 09:49 PM
I've lucid dreamed since I was a kid. I used to get them all the time in elementary school -- I'd be dreaming and suddenly: "wow! I'm dreaming! Cool!" and just start flying around, jumping on top of buildings, teleporting someplace.

I have found, at least for me, that it seems to take an act of will to continue to be lucid during a given dream -- sometimes the dream takes control back from you. It's almost as if you have to continuously believe in your state of disbelief in the dream. If that slips, lucidity drifts away and you're not in control any longer.

I still lucid dream, very occassionally, as an adult. Perhaps once or twice a year.

SnakeSpirit
09-18-2004, 04:22 AM
This morning I became conscious. The wife and kid had headed off to school and work, and I was alone to catch up on lost Zzzzzs.

I felt some waves in the waterbed, like someone pushing and masking waves to get my attention. It wasn't the cat, too strong, too regular. I started to come out, and oops! the waterbed wasn't moving. So I went back in. Waves were back, in my dream. So was someone, stroking my back. Mmmmmm. I couldn't see who it was before they were gone, so I said, "Neat! What to do?"

I've had my share of dream fantasy, so I decided to go and check up on the people I knew who I cared about. They were all awake and busy, so I doubt anyone felt my presence, but I left a token of my love and played around with testing my dreaming/awareness/ability to become aware of the physical and go back to the dream, till the phone rang.

Thanks, Lobsang for planting the seed of lucid dreaming again. You helped it happen.

SnakeSpirit

Telperien
09-18-2004, 04:52 AM
I have lucid dreams pretty often. I also dream in color and sound, and can't imagine what it would be like not to do so. I have never tried to induce lucid dreams. I have had a certain kind of dream a few times, where I am in some unpleasant situation, and then I realize that I'm dreaming and I tell myself to wake up. I "wake up," but I'm still dreaming. It's like one of those pictures where the same thing is repeated, getting smaller and smaller.

ThatGuy
09-18-2004, 10:54 AM
This thread inspired me to do a little reading on lucid dreaming ( I lucid dream occasionally) and sure enough the next night something in my dream world that was inconsistant with reality clued me off. Before i could do anything cool i felt the dream fading...like i was waking up, i immediately tried the trick i had read on the internet the night before about spinning around in circles, the dream dizness should keep you alseep....and it surely worked. Only problem is just as i started to float and play around i had a false awakening, and i think it's real life again and i'm back where i started for the remainder of the dream. Darnit! I'll get it next time.....

Wile E
09-18-2004, 11:11 AM
I've had some lucid dreams but it's not anything I've worked at, it just happened that something tipped me off that I was dreaming and I stayed in the dream and changed it.

The most recent example I can remember was a few months ago. I was having a recurring dream about riding in a car with someone and going off a highway overpass. It happened twice with me waking up when the car would have crashed into the ground, which is always rather disturbing. The first time my mother was driving the second time I can't remember if I was driving or someone else. About that time I went to a wedding with a couple of friends, a married couple, I rode in the backseat. That night after they dropped me off I had the dream again with them in the car. The husband was driving again and we went off the overpass, we seemed to be falling forever and then I realized something and said to the wife, "You guys already took me home, I'm at home dreaming right now, this isn't happening!" I kept repeating "this isn't happening" and then we touched down on the ground light as a feather and the wife looked at me and said "you saved us!". Then it went off into another dream. I didn't have the dream about driving off an overpass again.

EvilGhandi
09-18-2004, 06:18 PM
I've noticed that if I take a mega-dose of "B" vitamins less than a few hours before bed, all my dreams are extremely lucid, every time.

flamingbananas
09-19-2004, 12:09 AM
Holy crap, I never knew you could control your dreams! I have never done that. When I dream it's like I'm watching a movie that I can't stop. I also never have any super human things happen to me. I just have normal dreams. Besides my nightmares, which I get weekly. I sometimes get panic attacks I get so scared. Eek. I'll try this lucid dreaming tonight.

choie
09-19-2004, 02:57 AM
I also discovered that instead of flying around enjoying fantasies, I could go and visit other people who were asleep and dreaming. I could travel OOB, and contact other people. I started visiting someone I met online, and it turned into a sexual thing that we independently documented and verified.

Heh. Ooookay, now I know we're in CS and not GQ or anything, but this is still the Straight Dope, so I gotta ask: you're pulling our legs, right? You're not seriously suggesting that you met someone you know while dreaming, had sex, then woke up, called this person and confirmed that hey, s/he had sex with you in exactly the same way to ... are you?

Or are you saying that all this was in a dream -- the visiting another dreamer, the sex-having, the documenting and verifying, etc.? 'Cause if you are, that I can grok. Despite the M.C. Escher-ness of it all.

To everyone: are you guys honestly saying that lucid dreaming is real? I've never heard of it before, so I'm very curious about it. Has this been proven or discussed by legit sleep researchers? (If it's possible to "prove" anything like this, that is.)

Hope I don't come across as obnoxious or as if I'm distrusting y'all! It's just that this whole thing sounds like we're in the realm of remote viewing, dousing, or Uri Geller's entire existence.

choie
09-19-2004, 03:09 AM
Sorry to double-post, but ...

Heh. Ooookay, now I know we're in CS and not GQ or anything, but this is still the Straight Dope, so I gotta ask: you're pulling our legs, right? You're not seriously suggesting that you met someone you know while dreaming, had sex, then woke up, called this person and confirmed that hey, s/he had sex with you in exactly the same way to ... are you?

Cancel that question. 'Cause apparently, the answer is here (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=253512).

Carry on, then. Don't wanna open a can of worms.

The other questions re: lucid dreaming still stand.

EvilGhandi
09-19-2004, 06:25 AM
choie,

It's a perfectly good question, I've been a lucid dreamer since my early teens. Back then I was younger and actually believed my experiences were real. It took quite a few years to convince me that it was all just a consruct of the mind.

Imagine this, two people discuss their lucid dreams, decide to see if they can "meet" decide on a code word or some other such nonsense. See where I am heading?

Lucid dreams can feel very real. It takes only a small bit of shared experience to completly freak out a 14 year old. Wow you dreamed that too?

Now that I look back on it, I chuckle, of course we did, we agreed to.

Anyway, flying, diving under the sea and the sexual dreams are well worth it. I am particulary fond of the dreams where I go back to places I loved. Sometimes its a sunny boat trip sometimes a dark and frightening plane ride.

The terror is real too, a spooky lucid dream combined with the fact that you cannot move even your pinky is enough to keep you up for the rest of the night.

Lobsang
09-19-2004, 02:01 PM
I had one this morning. My alarm went off. I stopped it and went straight back to sleep.

Suddenly I'm in my bedroom (It's nothing like any bedroom I've ever owned, but I seem to recognise it). I look out of the window and in doing so realize that I am quite high up. The scene outside is magnificent. Forest on the right. Rock formations in the middle, and.... a dog track to the left? I look closely and see that it's St Johns at Orange Park* This is when I become lucid because I think to myself "That's in America. I've never been to America so I must be dreaming" Bingo, I'm lucid. First I enjoy the clarity and try to stay lucid. I try to float. I float for a bit. I try to get through the window. I get halfway through but then get scared that my real body might be acting out these movements so I get back in and decide to do something safer.

So I try to make a certain attractive celeb (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v98/lobley/digi_S507_Lindsay_Lohan.jpg) materialize on my bed like she is in a real photo of her. I try really really hard but nothing happens. I get a false awakening and the fun is over.



*I know of that because of my job

Trigonal Planar
09-19-2004, 04:28 PM
Yup, I am a very active lucid dreaming. I've posted on the topic quite a bit, including an "Ask the Lucid Dreamer" thread from a while back.

There's a whole world of information regarding lucid dreaming and I don't really feel like typing everything out - and much of it has been mentioned by others.

choie, yes, lucid dreaming is definitely real. However, be sure you understand what lucid dreaming is.

Real lucid dreaming is incredibly cool.

SnakeSpirit
09-19-2004, 10:07 PM
Cancel that question. 'Cause apparently, the answer is here (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=253512).

Carry on, then. Don't wanna open a can of worms.

The other questions re: lucid dreaming still stand.
Thanks for saving me the trouble ;)

SnakeSpirit
09-19-2004, 10:12 PM
Heh. Ooookay, now I know we're in CS and not GQ or anything, but this is still the Straight Dope, so I gotta ask: you're pulling our legs, right? You're not seriously suggesting that you met someone you know while dreaming, had sex, then woke up, called this person and confirmed that hey, s/he had sex with you in exactly the same way to ... are you?
Of course I am. You can choose to believe it was astral projection, shared dreaming, incredible coincidence or shared hallucination, whatever you can believe without losing any sleep....

Incubus
09-20-2004, 01:49 AM
I frequently have these very stupid, yet oddy petrifying nightmares where I am in a vehicle which is moving veerrrrry slowly, and it is going to crash into something without me being able to do anything about it. A few nights ago, I suddenly was able to be 'lucid' because I was getting so fed up with freaking out about "wrecking" my car for the zillionth time in a dream :rolleyes: So I turned the steering wheel, HARD, and suddenly time shifted. I realized that all those past dreams didn't involve the car going slow, but time going slow. When I was lucid I was somehow able to make the dream run in 'normal' time, which incidentally involved my car going 250 mph or something :p

The dream had me on a freeway onramp. I was about to crash into another car when I became lucid and swerved. Suddenly things went from going 2 mph to 250 mph, everything was blurring past me. Another car approached but I was ready and avoided it easily. Suddenly I could 'hear' my subconcious, it was saying stuff like "I won't let you get away, I won't let you survive!" and the more it said this, the more determined I was to get away, and the more control over the dream I had. It is as if part of me wanted to die horribly in an accident, and part of me wanted so desperately to live, the dream got warped and distorted by two opposing forces creating 'obstacles' against each other. Suddenly the road creates a huge speedbump that I hit, and my car goes flying, but I am able to land it back on the road. All of the sudden I am being chased by Martha Stewart riding a velociraptor. I pull out my vehicle registration and throw it at her, she screams and bursts into flames. Then the highway became a maze of 'severe tire damage' spike strips, so I went home and wrote a letter to the city council about the overabundance of tire strips...I guess I started to get bored in the dream or something, the whole thing ends with me in this City Council meeting getting all sweaty and exhasperated over the dangers of sever tire damage strips :confused:

Yllaria
09-20-2004, 02:28 AM
Has this been proven or discussed by legit sleep researchers?

My memory is of popular magazine articles quoting sleep studies that I can't verify. But evidently sleep clinics studying lucid dreaming trained dreamers to move their eyes in a pattern at the moment that they became aware that they were dreaming. Sensors would track both brain waves and eye movements and at some point in the dream, after the eye movement pattern had been noted, the sleepers would be awakened and asked about the dreams.

The dreamers confirmed deliberately giving the signal.

CurlyD
09-20-2004, 01:00 PM
Has this been proven or discussed by legit sleep researchers?

Dr. Stephen LaBerge, founder of The Lucidity Institute (http://www.lucidity.com), has done quite a bit of research. You can find links to several papers on their home page.

Ghanima
09-20-2004, 03:38 PM
Update: I recently had a driving-the-car dream again (see post #15.) This time I was driving from the backseat passenger-side of the car, and I realized that I couldn't possibly stop the car from where I was. But this time instead of panicking or forcing the dream to change, I actually crawled over the seat, looked down and carefully contemplated the foot pedals on the floor (there were four of them???) and chose the brake, placed my foot on it very carefully, AND STOPPED THE CAR! I am convinced I did this because of discussing my "car dream" problems in this thread. Thank you, fellow dopers!!
Now, onto flying through the universe...

Stainz
09-20-2004, 04:40 PM
I THINK this qualifies as a very rudimentary lucid dreaming experience ...

I often dream that I'm reading a REALLY fascinating book ... but then I realize that I'm dreaming and I want to know more about the story. But then I start to forget what it's about, so I flip back a page or two but the words start getting mixed up and unraveling, and then I wake up, hugely disappointed.

I should practice awareness techniques ... maybe I'll get a GREAT idea for an amazing novel ... :)

Trigonal Planar
09-20-2004, 08:23 PM
I see CurlyD has mentioned Dr. Stephen LaBerge (he has some great books, btw). I have never seen anything to suggest that lucid dreaming is NOT accepted by the scientific community. It is important that lucid dreaming - the act of recognizing one's being in a state of dreaming - not be confused with any other metaphysical definition or phenomenon. Mutual dreaming*, astral projection*, etc. have nothing to do with lucid dreaming proper.


(*having said that, it's quite possible hallucinations that are interpreted as being these phenomenon are in fact lucid dreams, occuring in people not familiar with lucid dreaming.)

SnakeSpirit
09-21-2004, 12:15 AM
It is important that lucid dreaming - the act of recognizing one's being in a state of dreaming - not be confused with any other metaphysical definition or phenomenon. Mutual dreaming*, astral projection*, etc. have nothing to do with lucid dreaming proper.

(*having said that, it's quite possible hallucinations that are interpreted as being these phenomenon are in fact lucid dreams, occuring in people not familiar with lucid dreaming.)
You assume too much, TP. Lucid dreaming you have described correctly. It is important to avoid confusing it with other real or imagined phenomenon; lucid dreaming stands on its own.

However, if you are going to state that mutual dreaming or astral projection have nothing to do with lucid dreaming, you are going to have to offer up some proof. As of yet we have not enough evidence to demonstrate one way or the other.

SnakeSpirit
09-21-2004, 12:36 AM
We are embarking upon an exploration of "the great unknown."

We don't have lots of EEG records from lucid dreamers. Nor from those of us who use our conscious dreams to "travel" to other locations. It's easy and "prudent" to assume that there's a "logical" explanation for all of this; but doing so cuts us off from the very exploratory nature that makes us human.

Like the explorers who insisted that "the world might be round," some of us experience the ability to experience things that go beyond the laws of physics. If we discount them, we stay in Europe forever. If we explore them, we may drop off the edge of the world, and into the void, or we may find Terra Incognita.

Along the way we need markers, to keep our place, to prevent us from becoming lost. I dream lucidly. I contact others while I dream lucidly. They recall (or imagine they recall) those contacts. When information is compared, it exceeds that which is explicable by chance, or coincidence.

We need to recognize that such information is excperiential, and subject to interpretation. Certainly to "prove" such allegations testing would be required that would eliminate subjective bias and allow for independent verification.

In the meantime, we need markers. We don't have objective markers, just subjective ones: astral projection, shared dreaming, hallucination, imagination.

Let's recognize, at least, that subjectivity is a two-edged sword.

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