PDA

View Full Version : The proper Muslim way of sleeping


aegypt
01-21-2005, 04:01 PM
From an article (http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,337867,00.html) about the two abducted French journalists in Iraq:

"Their jailers told them how to sleep in the proper Muslim way, prohibited them from smoking as it is against Muslim practices and said they were allowed to pray, but only in the Muslim manner. "

So, what is the proper Muslim way of sleeping?

rfgdxm
01-21-2005, 04:12 PM
How could a Muslim control what he does after falling asleep?

ninetypercent
01-21-2005, 04:24 PM
t is Muslim law to rise early to say your prayers. You aren't supposed to sleep on your back, and you are to lie on your right side. And your head has to point a certain direction.

Those Muslims are fucking nutcases. Music is prohibited, according to some Muslim scholars.

ninetypercent
01-21-2005, 04:26 PM
How could a Muslim control what he does after falling asleep?

That is Allah's job.

Crandolph
01-21-2005, 04:26 PM
Those Muslims are fucking nutcases.

:rolleyes:

I swear the right people are never on the hijacked aircraft...

tygerbryght
01-21-2005, 04:40 PM
...
"Their jailers told them how to sleep in the proper Muslim way, prohibited them from smoking as it is against Muslim practices and said they were allowed to pray, but only in the Muslim manner. "


(bolding mine)

:confused: :confused: :confused:
The most enthsiastic nicotine addicts I've ever seen were (Iraqi) Muslims.
:smack:

The Devil's Grandmother
01-21-2005, 04:51 PM
t is Muslim law to rise early to say your prayers. You aren't supposed to sleep on your back, and you are to lie on your right side. And your head has to point a certain direction.
Did the Prophet just really hate people who snored or is there a reason for this?
And, which direction? Toward Mecca? Due North?

ninetypercent
01-21-2005, 04:53 PM
(bolding mine)

:confused: :confused: :confused:
The most enthsiastic nicotine addicts I've ever seen were (Iraqi) Muslims.
:smack:

Yes, it is considered haram. Some amount of tobacco use is permitted, but not smoking; it is bad for you.

ninetypercent
01-21-2005, 04:59 PM
Did the Prophet just really hate people who snored or is there a reason for this?
And, which direction? Toward Mecca? Due North?

Whichever direction the Kaaba is. That is the direction you want to face while sleeping.

samclem
01-21-2005, 05:01 PM
Those Muslims are fucking nutcases. ninetypercent.

Two points: first, you are in GQ. Improper response. Second, I'm sure not all Muslims are nutcases, just as there are a few dopers who aren't. And many who are. If you were specifically talking about the captors in the story, then make it clear.

Let's keep down the insults.

samclem GQ moderator

The Devil's Grandmother
01-21-2005, 05:06 PM
Just to save some time for those of us who have to look things up:
The Kaaba or Ka'aba (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaaba), in the mosque known as Masjid al Haram in Mecca (Makkah), is one of the holy places of Islam, according to Wikipedia.
Haram is Arabic for "inviolate zones", (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haram) an important aspect of urban planning, also according to Wikipedia. Interestingly, a quick google search seems to indicate modern Muslims think Haram is forbidden intoxicants.

Crandolph
01-21-2005, 05:30 PM
Smoking both cigarettes and sheesha/narghila/hubble bubble (water pipes) are enormously popular in the much of the Muslim world. Most Muslims don't at all regard it haram (forbidden) but rather "disliked." As a practical matter this is ignored, just as any number of biblical pronouncements are in our society.

Islam has any number of sects and scholars making a range of different pronouncements on any given issue. The (rather extreme) ones I referenced suggesting that smoking was haram, however, made a general pronouncement against all tobacco use on the grounds that it's harmful to the body and addictive (http://www.muslimtents.com/aminahsworld/Smoking.html), not just smoking:

As indicated before, the prohibition of smoking is not restricted to cigarettes, but applies as well to other objects that have similar effects such as cigars, pipes, water-pipes, chewing tobacco or sniffing tobacco, etc.

I guess this makes C. Everett Koop a fucking nutjob too.

Not that I've ever seen anyone with chaw or snuff in the Middle East.

It's getting to the point where the SDMB needs a whole Islam section.

Crandolph
01-21-2005, 05:38 PM
Haram is Arabic for "inviolate zones", an important aspect of urban planning, also according to Wikipedia. Interestingly, a quick google search seems to indicate modern Muslims think Haram is forbidden intoxicants.

Haram has different but related meanings in context; the general root is "restricted" or "forbidden." That which is judged off-limits by (a) religious scholar(s) is haram, thus it's exactly the opposite: intoxicants (which are necessarily forbidden, this is redundancy) fall into the general category of haram.

In general, if I were looking at websites by Muslims about Islam and Wikipedia in order to learn what an Arabic word meant, I'd stick with the Islamic sites.

We get the word harem via haram, by the by, seeing as that's where the women are off-limits to you, as an interloper.

ninetypercent
01-21-2005, 05:43 PM
ninetypercent.

Let's keep down the insults.

samclem GQ moderator

I'm talking about those extremist Muslims. My apologies to any who were, are, or will be offended by my comment.

tomndebb
01-21-2005, 08:13 PM
I'm talking about those extremist Muslims. My apologies to any who were, are, or will be offended by my comment. Excuse me. You were not paying attention. This is GQ and you will not hurl obscenities at others, regardless of your views of them.


I swear the right people are never on the hijacked aircraft... And declarations that other posters should have died in tragic events are also out of line in this Forum. We have a perfectly serviceable BBQ Pit if you feel the need to excoriate.

[ /Moderator Mode ]

Anaamika
01-21-2005, 08:14 PM
Those Muslims are fucking nutcases. Music is prohibited, according to some Muslim scholars.

How rude is this?

Anaamika
01-21-2005, 08:15 PM
*Sigh*...I'm always late to the party.

Tamerlane
01-21-2005, 09:36 PM
It's getting to the point where the SDMB needs a whole Islam section.

We've had long threads attempting to hash out Islamic views before, including these:

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=87474

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=92968

In the first of which much to my shame I find myself to have been a purveyor of faulty information when I referred to the Taliban as Wahabi and Hanbali ( when really they're Deobandi and Hanafi, even if the leadership was a bit hybrid being heavily influenced by Wahabi preachers ), an error I've since corrected others about. Also I failed to properly cite Caesar E. Farah, even though I lifted virtually all of one post on pre-Islamic Arabia from him. Ah, well - failures of youth.

- Tamerlane

yBeayf
01-21-2005, 10:02 PM
You aren't supposed to sleep on your back, and you are to lie on your right side. And your head has to point a certain direction.
Actually, it's your stomach that you're not supposed to sleep on. There's a hadith somewhere that says that the people in hell will lay like that. It's not haram, though, just makrooh -- there's no punishment for doing it, but there is reward for not doing it. And the sunnah is for one to lay on one's right side, facing qibla, i.e. towards Makkah.
Music is prohibited, according to some Muslim scholars.
There are several hadiths that say that music is prohibited, musical instruments should be destroyed, those who listen to a songstress will have molten lead poured into their ears in hell, etc. There are also hadiths that say that it's alright for young girls to sing and play a hand drum on the two `Eids. Most shari'ah theoreticians have prohibited music, but in practice it's formed a huge part of Islamic culture.

Interestingly, Qur'anic recitation and the adhaan and iqaamah are not considered music.

ninetypercent
01-22-2005, 10:17 AM
Actually, it's your stomach that you're not supposed to sleep on. There's a hadith somewhere that says that the people in hell will lay like that. It's not haram, though, just makrooh -- there's no punishment for doing it, but there is reward for not doing it. And the sunnah is for one to lay on one's right side, facing qibla, i.e. towards Makkah.


Thanks for the correction. It is preferable to avoid sleeping on your stomach, then.

Who sleeps on their stomach, anyway?

Speaker for the Dead
01-22-2005, 10:22 AM
Thanks for the correction. It is preferable to avoid sleeping on your stomach, then.

Who sleeps on their stomach, anyway?

I know a few people who do, and they're all women. Whether that's just a coincidence or not, I don't know.

yBeayf
01-22-2005, 11:01 AM
I know a few people who do, and they're all women. Whether that's just a coincidence or not, I don't know.
I sleep on my stomach, and I'm a guy.

Finagle
01-22-2005, 11:40 AM
There are several hadiths that say that music is prohibited, musical instruments should be destroyed, those who listen to a songstress will have molten lead poured into their ears in hell, etc.


But that might just be a metaphor for a Celene Dion concert.

Gala Matrix Fire
01-22-2005, 01:03 PM
Weird. I used to go to a Christian church that allowed no instrumental music. I know they felt that there was some biblical reason for this, even though the bible clearly states that instruments were played.

Of course, that was just instrumental music, and just in church. But I am willing to bet some cold, hard cash that there are Christian churches out there that are against any music, anywhere, ever.

Can somebody help me out, here?

Joe Random
01-22-2005, 01:27 PM
I know a few people who do, and they're all women. Whether that's just a coincidence or not, I don't know.Another guy who sleeps on his stomach chiming in. Although, I can fall asleep on my back or side almost as easily. Just depends on what feels most comfortable to me at the time.

yBeayf
01-22-2005, 01:54 PM
Weird. I used to go to a Christian church that allowed no instrumental music. I know they felt that there was some biblical reason for this, even though the bible clearly states that instruments were played.
Orthodox churches still don't allow musical instruments, and Catholic churches didn't allow them until the Middle Ages -- there was a great furor when organs were introduced into the cathedrals of Europe. Many of the fathers speak of instruments being allowed according to the old covanent, as they were suitable for a less spiritually advanced people, and a foreshadowing of what was to come, much like animal sacrifice was. With the new covenant, they like sacrifices have passed away, and the human voice is the only instrument fit to be used to praise God.
Of course, that was just instrumental music, and just in church. But I am willing to bet some cold, hard cash that there are Christian churches out there that are against any music, anywhere, ever.
Well, like I said regarding the Muslims, it depends on what you define as "music." Qur'anic recitation, which is a lot like Jewish cantillation, is clearly music (check out Sheikh Abu Bakr ash-Shatri for an excellent example). The Muslim scholars defined that as not-music, though, and so it was allowed.

Crandolph
01-22-2005, 04:28 PM
Weird. I used to go to a Christian church that allowed no instrumental music. I know they felt that there was some biblical reason for this, even though the bible clearly states that instruments were played.

Of course, that was just instrumental music, and just in church. But I am willing to bet some cold, hard cash that there are Christian churches out there that are against any music, anywhere, ever.

Can somebody help me out, here?

There are certainly certain sects of Anabaptists (Amish, Mennonite) in the US who feel that music has no place in church services today, with the non-accompanied "singing" of hymns in actuality having no music written for it... people speak/sing together but without any set medlodic line. More conservative sects may carry this into other areas of life, although certainly not during the rumspringa . I heard a tape of such hymn "singing" at a cultural interpretive center in Lancaster County PA once, & can assure everyone that, to put it mildly, the muezzin is far more musical.

You'll very rarely run into Muslims who shun music in totality as a practical matter, even in a Wahhabist society. Qatar TV (a state owned operation in an officially Wahhabbist state) runs an Arabic video show every weekday called Clip Show with cute yound Palestinian hostesses showing MTV-style videos from Lebanon and other places. And even the Taliban eventually approved of Yusuf Islam/Cat Stevens music. A lot of my English students wanted me to translate their Will Smith tapes for them, and one teenage girl even borrowed a Dylan tape of mine to make a copy. Only once did I run into a little awkwardness; teaching out of a book really for immigrants to the states we were doing a chapter called "Do You Like Jazz?" which was teaching music-based vocabulary and how to construct questions and answers to yes-or-no questions. Problem one was "OK, who even knows what jazz is?" Problem two was we had a few essays like "I Prefer Jazz to Rock" vs "I Prefer Rock to Jazz" and I had to append the option of "All Music Is Forbidden" :eek: :D for one or two students out of 20.

That I did so with a straight face, especially given the usual lighthearted kidding about culture differences we had every day, still amazes me.

The Devil's Grandmother
01-24-2005, 01:35 PM
I know a few people who do, and they're all women. Whether that's just a coincidence or not, I don't know.
My husband tried to sleep on his tummy, but apparently I get in the way. Maybe your sample is skewed towards women, Speaker?

Crandolph, you make an excellent point about preferring Muslim-run sites to Wikipedia. I cited Wikipedia because I assumed Wikipedia goes through some editing process, and you never know when any random website is good info or the unedited rantings of madmen. Regretfully, I do not know enough about Islam or the Arabic language to make good guesses.

toadspittle
01-24-2005, 01:56 PM
Actually, it's your stomach that you're not supposed to sleep on. There's a hadith somewhere that says that the people in hell will lay like that. It's not haram, though, just makrooh -- there's no punishment for doing it, but there is reward for not doing it. And the sunnah is for one to lay on one's right side, facing qibla, i.e. towards Makkah.

Why?

Cervaise
01-24-2005, 02:55 PM
Who sleeps on their stomach, anyway?I sleep on someone else's stomach. Does that count? ;)

yBeayf
01-24-2005, 02:57 PM
Why?
Er, because there are ahadith that say that's what one should do. For orthodox Sunni Muslims, the hadith are second only to the Qur'an in formulating shari'ah. Much like the written Torah only gives the basics of halachah, with elaborations and practical points fleshed out in the Talmud, the Qur'an only gives the basics of shari'ah, with the rest coming from the hadith and from later commentary. For example, the Qur'an makes reference to the obligatory prayers, and the times they are to be performed, but for details on how to perform them, how one should stand and bow, what one should say, etc., one must rely on the hadith.

ninetypercent
01-24-2005, 03:53 PM
Why?

To ward against Shaytaan. A devil will give you nightmares.

toadspittle
01-24-2005, 08:29 PM
Er, because there are ahadith that say that's what one should do. For orthodox Sunni Muslims, the hadith are second only to the Qur'an in formulating shari'ah. Much like the written Torah only gives the basics of halachah, with elaborations and practical points fleshed out in the Talmud, the Qur'an only gives the basics of shari'ah, with the rest coming from the hadith and from later commentary. For example, the Qur'an makes reference to the obligatory prayers, and the times they are to be performed, but for details on how to perform them, how one should stand and bow, what one should say, etc., one must rely on the hadith.

Sorry. I mean, was there any logical reason for such a hadith, or just a weird taboo that became scripture? Was it, "Don't sleep on your stomach because your face will be turned toward Hell, when it should be turned toward God or Mecca," or was it just "Don't sleep on your stomach--'cause I said so."

yBeayf
01-24-2005, 11:41 PM
Sorry. I mean, was there any logical reason for such a hadith, or just a weird taboo that became scripture? Was it, "Don't sleep on your stomach because your face will be turned toward Hell, when it should be turned toward God or Mecca," or was it just "Don't sleep on your stomach--'cause I said so."
I believe it was because Muhammad had seen a vision of the people in hell, and they laid on their stomachs, and he felt that it was not right that Muslims should lay the same way as they do in hell.

Crandolph
01-25-2005, 03:19 PM
There's some significant variation in Islamic sects as to which hadith are apocryphal and which aren't. I think it becomes important to note precisely where the passge appears, and who regards it as valid.

There are also a lot of variations in belief regionally in which local tradition - including pre-Islamic tradition - gets overlaid in such a way that people have come to believe that certain practices (female "circumscision" being a notorious example) are religious when in fact they're cultural. We have any number of similar analogies in Christianity (Little Drummer Boy, Santa Claus, etc.). Although in this case it looks as if the sleeping thing is out of a hadith, in general I'd be careful to sift local traditions from worldwide Islamic belief in other cases like this.

yBeayf
01-25-2005, 08:41 PM
Ok, I couldn't find the hadith I was looking for, possibly because it appears that roughly half of my Islamic library did not follow me in my recent move, and is probably in an attic somewhere. However, I did find this article (http://www.sunnipath.com/resources/Questions/qa00000018.aspx) that gives several citations from the hadith about the sunnah of sleeping. Notably,
Imam Ahmad reported that Abu Hurayra (Allah be pleased with him) said, “The Prophet (Allah bless him & give him peace) passed by a man who was lying on his stomach, so he poked him with his leg and said, ‘This is a posture that Allah the Mighty and Majestic does not like.’” It was also reported by Ibn Hibban in his Sahih...

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright © 2018 STM Reader, LLC.