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View Full Version : Battlestar Galactica- 1/21 "Bastille Day"(Spoilers)


HPL
01-23-2005, 05:40 PM
Since nobody else has gotten around to it(shame on you), I've started a thread for the new BSG episode.

Picking up from last weeks episode, They've found water. Now they need to get it out. That requires manpower, and luckily, they have a transport full of prisoners(mentioned in the pilot) who can be induced to do the job. As usual, this isn't as easy as it seems.

My thoughts:

-I know that Apollo had no authority to make the deal at the end, and it does smack of giving into terrorists, but it did seem appropriate. Actually, it does make me wonder if they were planning to have elections once the president's term expired, though, I suspect Adama and Roslin were more upset by Apollo making that deal then anything else.

I also wonder: What happens if they happen to pick up the secratary of defense or something like that? Somebody who survived the destruction and has been trying to follow the fleet for a little while(It's only been about a week or so, so it's still plasuible such a thing could happen). Likewise, what if one of Adams's superiors shows up?(Though I'm not sure if remaking "The Living Legend" is a good idea).

-I was wondering how they were going to justify sending Starbuck into the ship with the marines, but they did a decent enough job justifying it. If she starts showing up on all the commando teams, I'm going to be less amused unless they can justify her being cross-trained as a marine.

-I'm glad that at least Adama is starting to notice that Batler seems to be going a bit loopy, and made it rather obvious he puts up with him just because they have no one better.

Though I sure as hell would be very reluntant to let Balter anywhere near a nuke in his state, and I personally wondered "Okay, you want to expose cylons to radiation to detect them. I just hope you know how to do this without giving regular humans cancer"

-Apparently the colonies, or at least Kobol, currently have, or once had, Hellnetic Pantheon. I've heard at least one person say in previous episodes "Thank the Gods", which suggests worship of Zeus and Apollo(as well as the others) never died in this universe. That or those are the "Old gods" and that at least one Monotheistic relgion is popular. We don't have enough information to tell.

But interestingly, all of the Cylons seem to believe in merely "God". I can't rememebr if any of the Humans do, though none of them seem to find the concept of "God" rather then "Gods" to unusual.

-The Terrorist leader reminded me of "Che Guevara", from what little I know about both. Both have written at least one book, both seem to be somewhat big with segments of the college crowd, while most others feel he is a terrorist. However, I don't think Che went to Prison.

I could be wrong, though, and if anyone can think of a comparison, feel free to correct me.

I'm glad he was smart enough to realized that Adama was just stalling with his "negoiations".

-Is it just me, or does Roslin seem like she's trying to prove her balls are bigger then Adama's? I'm glad she's not a naive peacenik and can make the tought decisions, but at times it seems she's trying a little too hard.

YPOD
01-23-2005, 07:12 PM
In my view, Apollo wildly overstepped his authority - even if there were going to be elections, the convicts now think they got their way, and saying that there would be elections anyway would not carry water (pun intended). So now the government does deal - in fact give in - to terrorists. Any military organization would immediately discipline severly someone like Apollo, but this is TV.

The humans in the original series were supposedly the source of Egyptian and I guess, Greek mythology. The dopey book "Charriots of the Gods" was quite popular at the time. (Come to think of it, it is also the basis for Stargate). Although I don't understand how the first mate in Moby Dick got there, unless it is in the "man versus god" mode.

Lumpy
01-23-2005, 08:49 PM
What exactly did Tom Zarek do to be condemned as a terrorist? If they said, I missed it. It puzzled me because they alternately speak of him as being guilty of terrorism and as having gone to prison as a "matter of principle". It also makes a huge difference how we empathize with the character. Did he: carry out, or order a terrorist action personally? was a "card carrying member" of an organization that commited terrorist actions? was the leader of a "political arm" branch of a terrorist organization? was convicted of something like sedition for publicly praising terrorist actions?

BTW: As I see it, the boarding party could have slaughtered the prisoners at that point, so what Lee Adama made was a promise, not a bargain. A fine distinction to be sure, but I think it's there.

carnivorousplant
01-23-2005, 09:55 PM
What exactly did Tom Zarek do to be condemned as a terrorist?.
I believe he blew up some regular folks with explosives.

Tangent
01-23-2005, 11:03 PM
Another solid episode. This one worked well as something of a "stand-alone" episode while still tying in strongly with the previous episode's story of needing to obtain water. I am so thankful that science fiction shows nowadays are utilizing story arcs that last several episodes or even the whole season, rather than the "planet-of-the-week" episodes ala the first few Star Trek series.

I'm interested to see where the writers go with Boxey. He was tagging along with Starbuck this week--maybe not the best role model--and he came across as pretty snotty when the XO asked where Boomer was. He's played by the same actor that played him in the mini-series and it's funny because he looks like he's grown a foot or so since they made the mini-series, but only a couple of weeks or so have passed in "show time."

Speaking of Starbuck, I like that they are maintaining her hot-shot, obnoxious attitude and not trying to make her completely sympathetic.

I really, really like Edward James Almos as Adama. Great casting all around, actually, and the overall quality of the acting on this show is one of the things that really sets BSG apart from other current science fiction shows.

Looking forward to next week!

HPL
01-24-2005, 12:30 AM
In my view, Apollo wildly overstepped his authority - even if there were going to be elections, the convicts now think they got their way, and saying that there would be elections anyway would not carry water (pun intended). So now the government does deal - in fact give in - to terrorists. Any military organization would immediately discipline severly someone like Apollo, but this is TV.

The humans in the original series were supposedly the source of Egyptian and I guess, Greek mythology. The dopey book "Charriots of the Gods" was quite popular at the time. (Come to think of it, it is also the basis for Stargate). Although I don't understand how the first mate in Moby Dick got there, unless it is in the "man versus god" mode.

I remember that. It seems here that they merely have/had a religion very much like the ancient greek one in their civilization as well.

Maus Magill
01-24-2005, 08:13 AM
My take on Appllo's "deal making" was that he didn't have much of a choice. Sure the Marines (and I like that they have marines for marine-type duties) could have slaughtered the prisoners, and gotten the hostages out, but who would then extract the water.

Remember: part of the deal was that Zarek would send one thousand men to extract the water.

Smapti
01-24-2005, 08:20 AM
We're not told a lot about Zarek's backstory in this episode (saving that for later, perhaps?) but from the conversation between Billy and PO2 Dualla we learn that he lived on Saggitarian, which was apparently treated by the Colonial government as a second-class state. Zarek was apparently a member of a militant separatist group that blew up a government building. IIRC, the producers said when Hatch signed on for the show that he was playing a "Nelson Mandela" type character.

Sean Factotum
01-24-2005, 08:34 AM
Re: Greek god pantheon.
Zarek goes into great detail describing the things that the god Apollo was responsible for. And when Galactica called for him, Zarek says something like "Zues is calling." I'd say that's more than a passing similarity to the Greek structure. So do they do it to keep things familiar (and not have some goofy god system that falls apart because of continuity errors with different writers each week), or does it tie-in down the road?

Munch
01-24-2005, 08:35 AM
I missed the first 20 minutes of the episode, so I may have missed something. But why does everyone refer to "all the Cylons believe in a God"? AFAIK, only Number 6 has said anything similar. I think it may be a bit of a stretch to apply that to all Cylons - I think people may be trying to "borgify" them. They seem much more independent here.

Solid episode. But I think Adama and President Stands-With-Fist need to hammer out some regulation revisions - particularly the fraternization rule. Adama mentioned in the mini that people need to start having babies. Thus, Boomer needs to be having more sex, not less. And preferably on camera. (I wonder if Cylon sleepers can have children. They're fully biological.)

Smapti
01-24-2005, 08:50 AM
Zarek goes into great detail describing the things that the god Apollo was responsible for. And when Galactica called for him, Zarek says something like "Zues is calling." I'd say that's more than a passing similarity to the Greek structure. So do they do it to keep things familiar (and not have some goofy god system that falls apart because of continuity errors with different writers each week), or does it tie-in down the road?

To reiterate what someone said earlier, the original BSG series borrowed from the "Chariots of the Gods" idea that early man was visited by aliens he saw as gods - in that series, we are meant to assume that the ancient Greek and Egyptian civilizations were founded by the 13th tribe of Kobol, who brought their religion along with them. The "Lords of Kobol" are then, ostensibly, the same 12 gods we think of as the "Olympians" - Zeus, Hera, Apollo, Artemis, Poseidon, Hades, Demeter, Athena, Hermes, Dionysus, Ares, and Hephestos (IIRC).

Given that, in the new series, Earth and the 13th tribe don't exist at all (at least as far as Adama and Roslyn know), there's no telling how this'll play out in the new version.

HPL
01-24-2005, 01:38 PM
Was anyone else bothered a little by the fact the city Boomer(Methinks Cylon) and Helo were walking through seemed suprisingly intact for a planet that recently got nuked? Was this the one city they decided not to nuke?

Maus Magill
01-24-2005, 03:02 PM
Was anyone else bothered a little by the fact the city Boomer(Methinks Cylon) and Helo were walking through seemed suprisingly intact for a planet that recently got nuked? Was this the one city they decided not to nuke?
My wife and I discussed that. We conjectured that perhaps the bombs were neutron bombs, which are supposed to leave the infrastructure intact.

Of course, if they weren't then shouldn't Baltar be dead? That bomb went off awful close to his home. As the the intro says "Some [cylons] even think they're human."

levdrakon
01-24-2005, 03:03 PM
Was anyone else bothered a little by the fact the city Boomer(Methinks Cylon) and Helo were walking through seemed suprisingly intact for a planet that recently got nuked? Was this the one city they decided not to nuke?

That doesn't bother me too much, it's just the whole Helo sub-story that bothers me. I like Helo, but I don't see how he can survive. Where are they going with it?

HPL
01-24-2005, 03:09 PM
That doesn't bother me too much, it's just the whole Helo sub-story that bothers me. I like Helo, but I don't see how he can survive. Where are they going with it?

I suspect that Boomer Cylon is using him to ferret out any human resistance groups on Caprica. How that effects the fleet I haven't the faintest idea. Perhaps he manages to get a message to the fleet before the snuffs it?

D_Odds
01-24-2005, 03:59 PM
Was anyone else bothered a little by the fact the city Boomer(Methinks Cylon) and Helo were walking through seemed suprisingly intact for a planet that recently got nuked? Was this the one city they decided not to nuke?
City Boomer is definitely a Cylon, and this one probably knows it. She was shown with other Cylons just before coming upon Helo. The one on the Galactica is the only one who doesn't know she's a Cylon.

HPL
01-24-2005, 04:23 PM
City Boomer is definitely a Cylon, and this one probably knows it. She was shown with other Cylons just before coming upon Helo. The one on the Galactica is the only one who doesn't know she's a Cylon.

I didn't notice that, but I did notice how the other cylons saw them and let them go without attempting to capture them. That's enough for me.

Odinoneeye
01-24-2005, 04:55 PM
Anyone else notice the similarities between this and the orignal series episode "Gun on Ice Planet Zero"?

In that one, a group of convicts are sent down to a frozen planet to destroy a gun that would destroy the Galactica. Ok, only the ice planet and convicts, but still it seems intended. (This isn't a complaint, just an observation)

One thing I like about this series is you really get claustraphobic. It conveys the cramped quarters these people are living with. The President conducting all her business in that little Colonial One ship (called something else in the mini and renamed due to the President being on it). They showed her going to bed and I assume that was on the same ship.

HPL
01-24-2005, 05:59 PM
Anyone else notice the similarities between this and the orignal series episode "Gun on Ice Planet Zero"?

In that one, a group of convicts are sent down to a frozen planet to destroy a gun that would destroy the Galactica. Ok, only the ice planet and convicts, but still it seems intended. (This isn't a complaint, just an observation)
.

I haven't seen "Gun on Ice Planet Zero" but it does seem to be an inspiration for "Bastille Day".

Though "Gun on Ice Planet Zero" itself sounds like it was drawing from "The Guns of Navarone" and "The Dirtry Dozen".

levdrakon
01-24-2005, 07:27 PM
I didn't notice that, but I did notice how the other cylons saw them and let them go without attempting to capture them. That's enough for me.

I wonder if Helo could be one of those Cylons who believe they're human? That could explain why they haven't killed him.

I think by now Boomer would know whether there was some sort of underground resistance movement. Since there apparently isn't one, what's the point of keeping Helo alive? Do they really need Helo to find the remaining humans?

Question about Boomer 2.0, does she share knowledge with her counterparts? Otherwise, she'd be missing knowledge of events that she & Helo experienced together after the initial attack, right? Wouldn't Helo get on to her?

"Remember that George guy I gave up my seat for?
"Sure, I got him to safety, then came back for you."
"Ha! His name wasn't George, you sneaky Cylon bitch! Why are you keeping me alive?"

D_Odds
01-24-2005, 08:51 PM
I wonder if Helo could be one of those Cylons who believe they're human? That could explain why they haven't killed him.

I think by now Boomer would know whether there was some sort of underground resistance movement. Since there apparently isn't one, what's the point of keeping Helo alive? Do they really need Helo to find the remaining humans?

Question about Boomer 2.0, does she share knowledge with her counterparts? Otherwise, she'd be missing knowledge of events that she & Helo experienced together after the initial attack, right? Wouldn't Helo get on to her?

"Remember that George guy I gave up my seat for?
"Sure, I got him to safety, then came back for you."
"Ha! His name wasn't George, you sneaky Cylon bitch! Why are you keeping me alive?"
It seems as if individual Cylons cannot "call home", else they would still be hounding the fleet until the humans died of exhaustion. Between Boomer and the Doctor, if the Cylons could call home, the fleet would be done.

HPL
01-24-2005, 09:11 PM
It seems as if individual Cylons cannot "call home", else they would still be hounding the fleet until the humans died of exhaustion. Between Boomer and the Doctor, if the Cylons could call home, the fleet would be done.

Well, we're not sure about the Doctor. I'm still torn wether that #6 is a result of a cylon device in his head, or just a manifestation of his inner torment(and growing instability).

Odinoneeye
01-24-2005, 09:43 PM
Well, we're not sure about the Doctor. I'm still torn wether that #6 is a result of a cylon device in his head, or just a manifestation of his inner torment(and growing instability).

And I really hope he isn't. For the same reason I hope the castaways on Lost aren't dead and in Purgatory. I've loved these series for the intelligent writing and it would seem such a major let down to have such a silly thing happen.

Just my two cents.

Neurotik
01-24-2005, 10:01 PM
I think that #6 being an internal delusion is a lot less silly than the doctor having a Cylon device planted inside his head.

The Long Road
01-24-2005, 10:15 PM
I'm wondering if at some point in the future the Galactica will try to retake some of their homeworlds. Right now they are on the run but the show could have them meeting up with fleet remnants or even arriving at a futuristic Earth. A series of counter attacks could begin. They can't simply run forever or the series will get stale in a hurry.

Interesting article in the weekly TV focus of my local newspaper talking about the series. The "human" Cylons came about because of the budget. Putting robots into every scene about the Cylons would have been too expensive. Don't know if it was mentioned already but I thought it was interesting.

HPL
01-24-2005, 10:25 PM
I'm wondering if at some point in the future the Galactica will try to retake some of their homeworlds. Right now they are on the run but the show could have them meeting up with fleet remnants or even arriving at a futuristic Earth. A series of counter attacks could begin. They can't simply run forever or the series will get stale in a hurry.


It would be interesting to see just to get a look at one of the newer battlestars. Though I suspect they might try to remake "The Living Legend".

Is Lloyd "I picked the wrong day to quit sniffing glue" Bridges still alive?

msmith537
01-24-2005, 11:43 PM
Is Lloyd "I picked the wrong day to quit sniffing glue" Bridges still alive?

I can see it now - "My eyes are ceramic. Caught a laser round at Capricorn. Or was it Okinawa? The one without the Cylons. "


Interesting article in the weekly TV focus of my local newspaper talking about the series. The "human" Cylons came about because of the budget. Putting robots into every scene about the Cylons would have been too expensive.

It would also have been pretty gay. Let's face it, humanoid robots make a much more complex and interesting enemy than an army of mindless mechanical men lumbering about with booming "DESTROY..THE..HUMANS....BY..YOUR...COMMAND" voices.

In fact. The series is actually an interesting departure from the conventional movie future of big-busted strippers and strapping engineer nerds and wise-cracking space pirates.

HPL
01-24-2005, 11:54 PM
It would also have been pretty gay. Let's face it, humanoid robots make a much more complex and interesting enemy than an army of mindless mechanical men lumbering about with booming "DESTROY..THE..HUMANS....BY..YOUR...COMMAND" voices.

Exactly. The Inflitration aspect is something a smart enemy would do their best to pull off, and it adds to much potential for drama in the series. Particulary the "Sleeper agent" aspect.

Chrome Toasters will work fine for foot soldiers, though.

carnivorousplant
01-25-2005, 07:07 AM
The series is actually an interesting departure from the conventional movie future of big-busted strippers and strapping engineer nerds and wise-cracking space pirates.
Oh sure. No. 6 sitting on top with her spine glowing is really good science fiction.

:)

Maus Magill
01-25-2005, 07:37 AM
Oh sure. No. 6 sitting on top with her spine glowing is really good science fiction.

:)

I didn't hear me complaining.

ElvisL1ves
01-25-2005, 09:09 AM
Well, we're not sure about the Doctor. I'm still torn wether that #6 is a result of a cylon device in his head, or just a manifestation of his inner torment(and growing instability).The preview show SFC had on just before the first series episode showed Number Six appearing in the flesh to the entire Galactica crew. Not quite sure how that's gonna work, maybe she had a spare body stashed away, but it's been pretty clear she's real. She did tell Baltar (in the pilot) that her consciousness was eternal, if her body died it would get transferred to another, and that for the moment it was in a chip in his head. That could have been a lie, though. If the Cylons want anything, it's to drive the humans mad, above even exterminating them.

Is Helo a Cylon too? Call that a plot point. This is a great psychological drama - there's no way to tell who is or is not. The efforts of the fleeing humans to retain as much of their civilization as possible, like elections, is a great approach. They could easily have copied the technology-based comic book approach of the old show, but to no good purpose.

Obviously (?) the setting is going to be split between the fleeing fleet and the Resistance fight on the home worlds. The return of Galactica about the time the human refugees find a way to load the "Jolly Roger" virus into the Cylon hive mind just has to be the final episode, which I hope is years away.

ElvisL1ves
01-25-2005, 09:22 AM
Oh sure. No. 6 sitting on top with her spine glowing is really good science fiction.

:)Anyone know if James Callis is gay? I can't see how any straight actor could stay in character so well, while being fondled so intimately by such a hot ticket as Tricia Helfer. Or maybe he's just that good at his trade.

Munch
01-25-2005, 09:29 AM
Is Helo a Cylon too? Call that a plot point. This is a great psychological drama - there's no way to tell who is or is not.
Of course he's not. We've been shown all the human models of Cylons. Will there be a big reveal at the end of season 2 that there's a 5th human model the Cylons have kept hidden? Probably. But for now, I think we're trying to complicate things just for the sake of complicating them. Same goes with the "is there an actual human Boomer?" speculation.

Sorry.

Neurotik
01-25-2005, 10:06 AM
Anyone know if James Callis is gay? I can't see how any straight actor could stay in character so well, while being fondled so intimately by such a hot ticket as Tricia Helfer. Or maybe he's just that good at his trade.
Eh? Seems like while Callis is being groped, his character is very distracted and has trouble talking - doesn't sound that hard to pull off.

ElvisL1ves
01-25-2005, 10:14 AM
We've been shown all the human models of Cylons.Number Six told Baltar there's 12 total. I count only 5 so far, and that's including the chrome toaster.

tracer
01-25-2005, 10:24 AM
Something else I've noticed in every episode, including the pilot mini-series:

Why do all the main leader characters -- Adama, Tigh, and President Rosalyn -- all talk with a speaking voice that sounds like they've got throat cancer?

Munch
01-25-2005, 10:29 AM
Number Six told Baltar there's 12 total. I count only 5 so far, and that's including the chrome toaster.
Yes, but she mentioned there were only 4 sleeper models - the other 8 are metalic models. One of the final scenes of the mini where Boomer was revealed as a sleeper was dramatic because we knew we had seen 3 of the models (Number 6, the camera guy, and the guy locked in the 'munitions base), and knew there was only one remaining we hadn't seen.

RogueRacer
01-25-2005, 10:34 AM
Why do all the main leader characters -- Adama, Tigh, and President Rosalyn -- all talk with a speaking voice that sounds like they've got throat cancer?I'm not sure if I quite follow, but in Olmos's (Adama) case that seems to be his normal voice. He has sounded the same in everything I've ever seen him in.

ElvisL1ves
01-25-2005, 10:59 AM
That's Stands With A Fist's normal voice, too. The guy who plays Tigh is Canadian like most of the rest of the cast; maybe that's it.

Thanks, Munch, I'd forgotten that line.

Munch
01-25-2005, 12:00 PM
Thanks, Munch, I'd forgotten that line.
Don't hold me to it - I only caught bits of the re-airing of the mini, and it's been since December 2003 since I've seen it in full. But I do specificially remember the revelation of Boomer-as-sleeper as being very deliberate.

levdrakon
01-25-2005, 02:49 PM
Yes, but she mentioned there were only 4 sleeper models - the other 8 are metalic models. One of the final scenes of the mini where Boomer was revealed as a sleeper was dramatic because we knew we had seen 3 of the models (Number 6, the camera guy, and the guy locked in the 'munitions base), and knew there was only one remaining we hadn't seen.

I don't remember 6 saying that. In any event, I don't think we've seen all the sleeper models. Number 6, news guy and scavenger guy all know that they are Cylons, apparently at all times. They infiltrate by acting human, but they aren't sleepers. Boomer is the only one so far that seems like a sleeper, that is, she isn't really sure whether she's a Cylon or not. At least the one on Galactica isn't sure yet, the Boomer on Caprica with Helo may not know.

So I'd say we haven't seen all the sleeper models yet. Remember too, during the beginning of each show, they come right out and say, "The Cylons were created by man. They rebelled. They evolved. They look and feel human. Some are programmed to think they are human. There are many copies."

That last part is significant. The text of "Some are programmed to think they are human," flashes red for emphasis, and they immediately show Boomer. So again, I think she's the only one so far shown to think she's human. Who are the other models that think they're human?

Munch
01-26-2005, 12:28 PM
Quick! Tricia Helfer is the featured "Girlfriend of the Day" over at maxim.com! Yowza!

duality72
01-26-2005, 04:40 PM
What does a pharmaceuticals company doing with a girlfriend of the day? Oh, Maxim (http://www.maximonline.com/index.html). Yowza, indeed.

tracer
01-26-2005, 06:14 PM
I don't believe it. The Maxm photos of her are less sexy than the shots of her in Battlestar Galactica.

Munch
01-27-2005, 12:41 PM
I don't believe it. The Maxm photos of her are less sexy than the shots of her in Battlestar Galactica.
Me and my picture of Tricia's lace-clad ass disagree with you.

Balduran
01-29-2005, 08:55 PM
That's Stands With A Fist's normal voice, too. The guy who plays Tigh is Canadian like most of the rest of the cast; maybe that's it.

Thanks, Munch, I'd forgotten that line.

That's the guy who plays Tigh's normal voice too, or at least it was on his last series. He played a hard-drinking detective in the Canadian series Cold Squad, which looks like it was the inspiration for Cold Case Files. He plays Tigh pretty much the same way, so I'm guessing the writers saw his other performance and decided that's what Tigh should be like.

Mr. Excellent
02-16-2005, 10:11 PM
Anyone know if James Callis is gay? I can't see how any straight actor could stay in character so well, while being fondled so intimately by such a hot ticket as Tricia Helfer. Or maybe he's just that good at his trade.

Why couldn't he be? I mean, yes, Tricia Helfer is amazingly freaking hot. But then again, the same holds true for many, if not most, actresses in scifi/action movies, many of which have "romantic" subplots. Unless we posit that all actors playing opposite hot women have to be gay (which just seems statistically unlikely), we're forced to conclude that actors, as professionals, learn to deal with it.

Not that I ever could. *drools*

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