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View Full Version : Joan of Arcadia 4/1, or Happy Anniversary!


ivylass
04-01-2005, 12:43 PM
It's Joan and Adam's first anniversary! Yippeee! (http://www.cbs.com/primetime/joan_of_arcadia/)

I wonder if they will do anything for April Fools Day. I've noticed in the past when they've done something on a certain date (Luke's birthday, for instance) the episode ends up airing on that date.

See you at 9pm!

RikWriter
04-01-2005, 12:45 PM
From the previews, it doesn't look like it's gonna be a happy anniversary. Sigh. More relationship angst.

BiblioCat
04-01-2005, 01:36 PM
Also from the previews, who else is God talking to?
Hmmm....

RikWriter
04-01-2005, 08:18 PM
Damn, Adam is a right bastard, ain't he?

ivylass
04-01-2005, 09:00 PM
I am so angry right now, I only have two things to say:

Adam is a righteous bastard, and I would slap him if I could

And

It was nice to see Quark again.

RikWriter
04-01-2005, 09:06 PM
I think I would respect Adam a great deal more if he had just broken up with Joan instead of trying to pretend it never happened. He didn't have to be completely honest about why, but trying to go back to her was just shitty.

ivylass
04-01-2005, 09:09 PM
I never would have thought Adam would have been so scummy. Not only did he hurt Joan, but to use Bonnie strictly for sex? To treat her like an object, a receptacle?

Bad bad Adam. I'm so glad Grace dragged Luke out of the "courtroom"...could you have imagined that scene, when you find out your sister's boyfriend cheated on her?

No Kevin. I wonder why.

StGermain
04-01-2005, 09:34 PM
Oh dear. My Adam bubble is burst. *sigh*

StG

RikWriter
04-01-2005, 11:06 PM
Ah hell, I can see what's gonna happen already.
Everything is at loose ends at the end of this season, and then it won't get renewed...it's in deep trouble right now.

NinjaChick
04-01-2005, 11:07 PM
Anyone wanna give a quick recap for those of us who couldn't commandeer their friends TV tonight? (And also, are too impatient to wait for TWoP to post the recaplet?)

Snooooopy
04-02-2005, 12:53 AM
Ah hell, I can see what's gonna happen already.
Everything is at loose ends at the end of this season, and then it won't get renewed...it's in deep trouble right now.

First Wonderfalls, then Tru Calling ... if Joan goes, then where will I get my fix of television shows centered around attractive young women who are dispatched on strange missions by mystical sources?

vivalostwages
04-02-2005, 01:58 AM
What could have been a goofy courtroom scene really worked well. Praise to Tamblyn and Marquette for their performances. So, so sad. Great scene on the bus at the end as well, with Old Lady God offering comfort, although She won't interfere with human relationships.

amarinth
04-02-2005, 03:12 AM
I never would have thought Adam would have been so scummy. Not only did he hurt Joan, but to use Bonnie strictly for sex? To treat her like an object, a receptacle?Not just to do that - which is horrible enough. But then to think that treating someone else so horribly made it all ok.

So glad I never liked him in the first place.

ivylass
04-02-2005, 07:28 AM
Okay, now that I'm a little calmer, I can discuss this better.

It's been a long time since I cared about characters so much that I felt so deeply betrayed. I knew Joan and Adam were headed on the rocks, but for the writers to turn Adam into such a total sleazeball is unforgiveable. I'm glad Joan is strong enough to break up with him. How many other teenaged girls wouldn't?

I thought the whole police storyline was rather weak. Some random guy with inside knowledge of the case confesses to a child murder just to give the mother closure? Please. That was stupid all the way around.

And Helen, honey? Just in case Lily and Kevin break up, who says you have to take Kevin's side? Why not try, oh I don't know, staying out of it as he's practically an adult now?

The whole courtroom scene was handled very well. I thought Joan would lose it, like she did during the debate, but she held it together and used Adam's cross-examination to confront him as Adam and as Jack. Very nicely done.

NinjaChick
God tells Joan to get involved in Mock Trial. Joan is picked to be the prosecutor in Jack and the Beanstalk. Grace is picked to be the defense attorney, and she ropes Adam in to play Jack. Luke volunteers to help Grace in her case. Joan and Adam see Bonnie flirting with some guy in the hall, and Joan makes the comment that Bonnie has another boyfriend. She mentions the anniversary of her and Adam's first real kiss, but he has to work late. By working late, that means going over and boinking Bonnie. This isn't the first time, and Bonnie urges him to stay and talk, but Adam basically reminds her that he's just using her for sex and doesn't want to talk to her about Joan. In a moment of weakness, he confesses to Grace, who's properly disgusted with him. During a break of Mock Trial, Bonnie comes up to the group and demands to speak to Adam, saying "You owe me that much." Adam dismisses her, and Joan picks up enough of the weird vibe that she realizes Adam has cheated on her. But court is called back in session and Joan, understanding Adam's betrayal, uses that to completely destroy him on the stand. After the trial, Adam lets slip that it wasn't just cheating, that he went the whole way with Bonnie, and Joan understands the full extent of Adam's betrayal. He can't explain why he did it, that it didn't mean anything, that he loves Joan and wants to get past it, but Joan says there's no getting past it and walks out, leavng Adam to lose it altogether as he realizes the extent of his actions and consequences.

An excellent show. Why are the best shows (Joan's death, Adam and Joan's breakup) so incredibly gut-wrenching?

ddgryphon
04-02-2005, 11:41 AM
In a world without the rest of the series this is a good episode. However in context, it is a gross undermining of established character.

Do these people read their own writing?!?!?!?

Has Marti Noxon signed on to run the show?!?!?!

The complete destruction of Adam's character as realized in the first season and carried on into the first part of the second has reached its climax. So what? They've abused the character so much by this point he is unrecognizable as the individual we knew. This was accomplished in about three episodes that totally undermined the character.

Joan at one point says "I've always trusted you" WRONG!!! What about her dead friend she thought Adam was seeing? What about Assistant Duff, that she fretted over for a few moments?!?

They need to take some time to re-establish their characters and remember that to change them in a series, you must move them in a direction, not shove them over a cliff.

This is Joel went nuts and ran off into the woods having hallucinations (http://www.tvtome.com/NorthernExposure/guide.html) bad writing. This is series killing stuff.

Snooooopy
04-02-2005, 02:58 PM
I'm actually glad to see the writers bringing Saint Adam off the mountaintop and just letting him be a horny teenage boy. And it's not like high school romances were meant to last.

ivylass
04-02-2005, 04:50 PM
ddgryphon, I know you feel betrayed, but I think this is a normal development of a character, albeit pretty slimy. Adam admitted to Grace that his Little Head was starting to speak louder and louder than his Big Head, and I think, somehow, in his twisted testosterone-overdosed brain, he felt it was okay to sleep with Bonnie even though he was in love with Joan.

I don't excuse it at all, don't get me wrong. But Adam had Joan on a pedestal for the longest time. He worshiped the ground she walked on. He still does. But he's not a saint. Maybe if he hadn't held Joan in such high esteem he would have been happier sneaking his father's Playboys into the bathroom.

I don't know, I've never been a teenaged boy. I don't understand the thought process that makes it seem okay to use one girl for sex even though you're in love with another.

I also think Joan's sense of betrayal was not only that Adam slept with Bonnie, but that he didn't lose his virginity with her. You only get to pop a cherry once, and I think Joan wanted her and Adam to lose it together.

Sir Prize
04-02-2005, 05:30 PM
I don't understand the thought process that makes it seem okay to use one girl for sex even though you're in love with another.
It's hard to explain but from Adam's point of view it had nothing to do with Joan. It was just about wanting to have sex. His refusing to talk and walking out on Bonnie after the deed was his way of staying loyal to Joan. From his point of view doing nonsexual boy/girl stuff like talking would have been a greater betrayal. I suspect that even now his guilt is more about hurting Joan rather than betraying her.

drm
04-02-2005, 06:04 PM
I'm also happy to see Adam turn into an actual human being with flaws. I also thought it fit very well when you remember that Joan stopped adam a few weeks ago (that certainly doesn't absolve Adam, I'm just saying it didn't come out of nowhere). There were hints over the last few episodes that let us know something like this was possible.

What would have been unrealistic is if Adam remained his perfect self right up until a huge marriage to Joan.

I really enjoyed the episode very much.

On a side note, all my friends think I'm weird that I love this show despite the fact I don't believe in god. I just tell them that if I did, god would be like they are on the show.

RikWriter
04-02-2005, 06:35 PM
On a side note, all my friends think I'm weird that I love this show despite the fact I don't believe in god. I just tell them that if I did, god would be like they are on the show.

Join the club...I like the show too and I am an agnostic.

threeorange
04-03-2005, 01:18 AM
Join the club...I like the show too and I am an agnostic.

I'm an agnostic too; in fact, I think it might be easier to accept the premise of the show if one doesn't already have a "correct" view of the nature of God.

ivylass
04-03-2005, 09:47 AM
It's hard to explain but from Adam's point of view it had nothing to do with Joan. It was just about wanting to have sex. His refusing to talk and walking out on Bonnie after the deed was his way of staying loyal to Joan. From his point of view doing nonsexual boy/girl stuff like talking would have been a greater betrayal. I suspect that even now his guilt is more about hurting Joan rather than betraying her.

I'm trying to wrap my brain around this and I can't get. it. Sex is not intimacy for men? But how would Adam feel if Joan had slept with Roger?

RikWriter
04-03-2005, 11:15 AM
I'm trying to wrap my brain around this and I can't get. it. Sex is not intimacy for men? But how would Adam feel if Joan had slept with Roger?


Sex is indeed different for males than for females, based on simple biology. Men can't get pregnant, and their biological imperative is to spread their genes far and wide. Not to say they have to give in to this urge, but the urge does exist and it's much harder to control it as a teenager. For men, sex is indeed a part of intimacy, but intimacy need not be a part of sex.

ddgryphon
04-03-2005, 05:56 PM
Perhaps -- and I emphatically mean PERHAPS -- Adam in moving from the shy, introverted, stay-at-home, earnest artist, to the hey, I'm good enough for people to steal my work, everybody says I'm the hottest guy at what I do, I'm making a living with my art guy hasn't handled it well. In fact, there are few teenagers who could handle the kind of (albeit local) success that he has.

Heaven forbid if he should become some kind of Andy Warhol big buck artist. His ego has indeed gotten the better of him. I don't feel the producers and writers have effectively conveyed it, or shown the growth in that direction, but I'm willing to acknowledge that that may be their intention. And I think that any proclamation that the situation is unresolveable is almost laughable. Teenagers get over this stuff better than we adults. I also find it doubtful that he would want his mother to see how he's been behaving.

He is riding high on himself and, I'm willing to accept that I missed it until this skillet upside the head moment in which he took what he wanted without regard to anyone around him. But just saying that doesn't square at all with the Adam I've watched for the last however many episodes. I said that when he wanted to have sex with Joan. Who is this guy and what has he done with Adam?

So, inconclusion, I'm willing to accept that the writer's have been moving him in this direction in a very inobvious way that isn't clear until viewed in retrospect, but I still have trouble buying the metamorphosis, because I don't feel it has been executed well.

In addition, I don't believe this is fixable -- though I admit the hint that Adam wasn't meant for Joan to spend the rest of her life with (face, people who go off doing God's will in spite of everything rarely end well anyway) is contained simply in his name: Adam, the first man.

Sorry, stream of consciousness and all.

Snooooopy
04-03-2005, 06:25 PM
Perhaps -- and I emphatically mean PERHAPS -- Adam in moving from the shy, introverted, stay-at-home, earnest artist, to the hey, I'm good enough for people to steal my work, everybody says I'm the hottest guy at what I do, I'm making a living with my art guy hasn't handled it well. In fact, there are few teenagers who could handle the kind of (albeit local) success that he has.

Heaven forbid if he should become some kind of Andy Warhol big buck artist. His ego has indeed gotten the better of him. I don't feel the producers and writers have effectively conveyed it, or shown the growth in that direction, but I'm willing to acknowledge that that may be their intention.

There was that early episode where Joan was ordered to destroy his entry in an art contest. Someone purchased his piece, he got a big head and was about to quit school. So I think some seeds had been planted quite a while back.

ivylass
04-03-2005, 06:51 PM
I am in no way excusing Adam's behaviour. It was despicable the way he treated both Joan and Bonnie, and it will be a long time before I respect him again.

Damn you, Barbara Hall, for making me care so much about someone that doesn't exist.

ddgryphon
04-04-2005, 12:30 AM
Blame the actor too. Without him, Adam could be nothing but an idea on the page that never gets anywhere.

Yes, and damn them for creating such fully realized people. I hope they keep it up.

ivylass
04-04-2005, 08:10 AM
Blame the actor too. Without him, Adam could be nothing but an idea on the page that never gets anywhere.



You're right. Christopher Marquette did a fantastic job.

gonzoron
04-04-2005, 03:56 PM
OK, time to admit I watch Joan. It started as me keeping myself busy while sitting on the couch next to GonzoGal while she watched Joan, but over time, it became official. Now we both watch. I liked this episode a lot, even though I saw it coming miles away. (Don't know why, guess I was good at catching clues from the previous episodes.)

I'm saddened because I really liked Adam as a character and I really liked his relationship with Joan. I thought his actions were starting to get erratic and out of character. But when I thought about it a bit, it does make sense. Television aside, high school relationships aren't usually forever. Joan's daydreams a few weeks ago forshadowed this. And even the most mature high school boy is still a kid that may make mistakes, and is vulnerable to be being led by his hormones. And that painfully helpless feeling of "I really screwed up and I have abolutely no way to make it right" is very familiar to me.

Mainly I just wanted to mention that Grace did some wonderful acting in this episode too, that might otherwise go overlooked. Her soft, dry-voiced objection during the trial scene spoke volumes.

LavenderBlue
04-06-2005, 11:50 PM
I just watched this episode from our PVR. Once again I was deeply impressed. The scene where Joan cross examines Adam/Jack was brilliant.

I thought this episode was very well done. The acting was terrific. It is truly brave to make a very likeable main character do something rotten. Adam gets to be what he ultimately is -- a teenaged boy.

I'm also glad they gave Joan enough gumption to break up with him. There aren't too many teenaged girls who would have the guts to simply walk away from such a deeply felt relationship.

SiXSwordS
04-07-2005, 02:08 PM
I'm also glad they gave Joan enough gumption to break up with him. There aren't too many teenaged girls who would have the guts to simply walk away from such a deeply felt relationship.
I'm glad Joan is strong enough to break up with him. How many other teenaged girls wouldn't?

I thought the whole police storyline was rather weak. Some random guy with inside knowledge of the case confesses to a child murder just to give the mother closure? Please.

I'm not very good at figuring out what's going to happen, even in formulaic TV, but I have to wonder, based on the theme of the show-- guilt and innocence-- whether or not Joan and Adam will get back togather. It would probably send the wrong message to the kids, but it wouldn't be out of character.

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