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js_africanus
07-05-2005, 11:07 AM
I rented season two of Chapelle's Show. On the third disc are two Charlie Murphy True Hollywood Stories that never aired. (Just him telling the stories, not all acted out.) Charlie talked about some guy who was really obnoxious. He said something like, "Although he was black, he could insult like a white guy," and went on to tell just how hurtful and hard-hitting this guy's insults were.

I'm nonplussed.

I guess I can accept that insult styles vary between the different American sub-cultures. I'm a bit astonished that insulting like a white guy is not only so powerful, it is apparently a skill to boot.

Hmm.

Wolfian
07-05-2005, 11:11 AM
Maybe instead of the "dozens" style insults (Yo' momma so fat she jumped into the air and got stuck.) he went straight for the throat (Your wife left you because you're a closet homo, you c*cksucker.). I've never heard anybody described like that.

js_africanus
07-05-2005, 11:13 AM
Maybe instead of the "dozens" style insults ...he went straight for the throat ....
Murphy's example was, "You fucking moron."

Askia
07-05-2005, 11:38 AM
A long time ago in the GD forum, I posted an opinion that American white conservatives as a group are far more endlessly inventive when it comes to namecalling than pretty much anyone else out there of any political persuasion. No surprise, a bunch of people accused me of being biased and blinded. Screw them.

The main difference in getting insulted by white guys (in my experience) is that black people (generally) call you names or insult you when they're generally pissed-off at you, but a white guy you think you get along with can say shit so casually and offhand with racial connatations it can really fuck up your self-image. I have no idea if this is what Charlie Murphy meant, but that's my take.

By way of illustration, some actual shit that's been said to me, that's thrown me for a loop:

(supervisor on my last job, "getting to know me" over lunch) So... are your parents educated?

(When I announced to my high school art teacher that I was moving in with my father when I turned 15)
Are you sure your father wants you?

(Co-worker who dropped off a package for me at my grandparents home after the 50-cent tour)
Wow. I didn't know black people really owned houses like that... no offense.

(Talking about the TV "Moesha")
What's the name of that stupid ghetto-sounding show? Mooshu? Moshanna?
(P.S. My middle name is Moshe)

Wolfian
07-05-2005, 12:00 PM
(At Disney World)
Park Worker (seeing my Syracuse lanlet): Cool, Syracuse!
Me: Yeah, I'm going there next year.
PW: What do you play?
Me: (after a pause) Clarinet.

I got into Syracuse with my head, not my body.


I don't think they know that they're being insulting, Askia, at least I hope not.

js_africanus
07-05-2005, 12:06 PM
A long time ago in the GD forum, I posted an opinion that American white conservatives as a group are far more endlessly inventive when it comes to namecalling than pretty much anyone else out there of any political persuasion. No surprise, a bunch of people accused me of being biased and blinded.
Biased against whom?

Askia
07-05-2005, 12:15 PM
js_africanus My own moderate-to-liberal viewpoints, I guess. It was pointed out to me that liberals don't tend to namecall, they tend to be a lot more condescending.

Wolfian. I kinda agree. I should have typed, "possibly unintended racial connotations," but there are moments when I'm not feeling that generous about lending folks the benefit of the doubt.

Gary Robson
07-05-2005, 01:07 PM
It was pointed out to me that liberals don't tend to namecall, they tend to be a lot more condescending.
While there's little doubt that there are some world-class childish namecallers on the conservative side of the fence (Michael Savage comes to mind), they certainly have no monopoly on the practice.

Read any political thread on this board and you'll find liberals using childish nicknames for conservative politicians--especially George W. Bush. Al Franken wrote a book entitled Rush Limbaugh is a Big Fat Idiot.

js_africanus
07-05-2005, 01:45 PM
It was pointed out to me that liberals don't tend to namecall, they tend to be a lot more condescending.
That may be true enough to justify a mild stereotype. For example, there is a guy I know who talks about how we have to protect the local environment, and to do so we need to be "visionary" and make "intelligent" decisions. Another said that to sell farmland preservation, we need to "have heart." (I pointed out that just because I don't support a farmland policy that murders third-world farmers, that didn't mean that I lacked "heart." She probably didn't agree w/ my feelings, but she did catch my drift.) Another form of condenscention is well illustrated by the name PETA, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals. Virtually everyone is for the ethical treatment of animals; we just have different standards.

It does seem to me that this comes more from the left than the right, although the right certainly commits the same crime in spades.

As for asking whether your parents were educated, I once knew a German exchange student whose host family asked her if all Germans lived in huts. So you're in good company. I don't know if that's what Charlie Murphy meant, though, because the guy doing the insulting was a black guy and there wasn't anything racial (?) about it. (Unlike Rick James calling Murphy "Darkness" because of his skin color.)

Weird.

Neurotik
07-05-2005, 02:34 PM
I don't know if that's what Charlie Murphy meant, though, because the guy doing the insulting was a black guy and there wasn't anything racial (?) about it. (Unlike Rick James calling Murphy "Darkness" because of his skin color.)
Sorry, but you completely misunderstood Charlie's point. His point was that he had never heard insults like that because he had only ever hung with black people, so it was really weird to him. There was nothing especially hurtful about "insulting like a white guy."

js_africanus
07-05-2005, 02:47 PM
Sorry, but you completely misunderstood Charlie's point.
You sure about that? He spent a lot of time explaining how the guy's insults enraged him so effectively, and he had spent a lot of time w/ the guy—he said punching him was like punching his cousin. I got the impression that he was pretty familiar w/ the guy and the way he operated before the incident in the story.

monstro
07-05-2005, 03:23 PM
"You fucking moron" is so...white.

From my experience, black people will pull out an insult meant to sting but also make an audience laugh (or stand back in awe). Like "get out my face, you bow-legged, fruity-ass, baboon-looking motherfucka". Hard-hitting but with a touch of humor that even the target can laugh at. Presentation is important. The more creative the insult is, the cooler the insulter will come across.

White people will tend to go straight to the heart with something like "cocksucking piece of ass shit". White people are the ones who coined the terms "asshole", "douchebag", "pantywaste", "dickhead", and "cunt". They are also more likely to call someone a "syphylitic whore" or use the words "moron", "idiot", "imbecile" in their invective speech. No less creative than "black" insults, mind you, but maybe a bit more caustic and less funny.

Askia
07-05-2005, 03:25 PM
monstro. Ah. Perfectly succinct.

UrbanChic
07-05-2005, 03:36 PM
"You fucking moron" is so...white.'Tis? JChrist, I've been taken off the mailing list again!

I wish someone enterprising soul would publish a convenient, pocket-sized list of what's white and what's black. It wouldn't change the way I speak, but at least I'd know.

Push You Down
07-05-2005, 03:49 PM
To Hijack a bit....

Al Franken wrote a book entitled Rush Limbaugh is a Big Fat Idiot.


Ummm.... The joke there is that he's doing what Rush does. If the book were called "Evidence Rush Limbaugh is a Liar".. no one would pay attention. Same way that if Rush presented his opinions rationally and without name calling... no one would pay attention to him either. Franken is making fun of not only Rush's physical and ethical state but also Rush's (and it could be argued, the Right's) sensationalism.

rowe
07-05-2005, 04:02 PM
I was called a "honky" by some idiots walking by while my friend & I were playing roller hockey. Nothing too creative or cool about that...The saddest part is that it came out of the mouth of a kid probably no older than 11 or 12.

"You fucking moron" is so...white.

From my experience, black people will pull out an insult meant to sting but also make an audience laugh (or stand back in awe). Like "get out my face, you bow-legged, fruity-ass, baboon-looking motherfucka". Hard-hitting but with a touch of humor that even the target can laugh at. Presentation is important. The more creative the insult is, the cooler the insulter will come across.

White people will tend to go straight to the heart with something like "cocksucking piece of ass shit". White people are the ones who coined the terms "asshole", "douchebag", "pantywaste", "dickhead", and "cunt". They are also more likely to call someone a "syphylitic whore" or use the words "moron", "idiot", "imbecile" in their invective speech. No less creative than "black" insults, mind you, but maybe a bit more caustic and less funny.

monstro
07-05-2005, 04:13 PM
I was called a "honky" by some idiots walking by while my friend & I were playing roller hockey. Nothing too creative or cool about that...The saddest part is that it came out of the mouth of a kid probably no older than 11 or 12.

I was called a nigger by a turban-wearing Sikh. And I was called a nappy-headed retard by a Jewish boy. Back in the eighth grade.

I don't see the point in sharing all the times we've been insulted, really. All insults are hurtful and mean. My post was not a defense of "black" or "white" insults. It was an attempt to explain Charlie (aka Darkness) Murphy's comment.

Neurotik
07-05-2005, 04:21 PM
" White people are the ones who coined the terms "asshole", "douchebag", "pantywaste", "dickhead", and "cunt". They are also more likely to call someone a "syphylitic whore" or use the words "moron", "idiot", "imbecile" in their invective speech. No less creative than "black" insults, mind you, but maybe a bit more caustic and less funny.
I think pantywaste is pretty funny.

Hugh Jass
07-05-2005, 04:42 PM
"You fucking moron" is so...white.

From my experience, black people will pull out an insult meant to sting but also make an audience laugh (or stand back in awe). Like "get out my face, you bow-legged, fruity-ass, baboon-looking motherfucka". Hard-hitting but with a touch of humor that even the target can laugh at. Presentation is important. The more creative the insult is, the cooler the insulter will come across.

White people will tend to go straight to the heart with something like "cocksucking piece of ass shit". White people are the ones who coined the terms "asshole", "douchebag", "pantywaste", "dickhead", and "cunt". They are also more likely to call someone a "syphylitic whore" or use the words "moron", "idiot", "imbecile" in their invective speech. No less creative than "black" insults, mind you, but maybe a bit more caustic and less funny.

So, do the "white" insults you mention tend to hurt more? If someone calls me a douchebag, it doesn't bother me. I might return fire with a "ass nugget" or "fuckstain" Then I generally forget about it. Granted "syphylitic whore" is pretty hardcore, and "cunt" is pretty taboo.

I never know how to respond to a typical "black" insult like you mentioned.

Askia
07-05-2005, 04:47 PM
Hugh Jass. You either laugh or fire one back, or else shit lingers and escalates from the verbal to the physical. I suspect the origins of the ongoing decades long gangbanging between the Crips and Bloods can be traced backwards to a very wicked and inopportune "Yo Mama" joke.

kelly5078
07-05-2005, 04:52 PM
I can't remember ever being insulted by anyone black, but white insults are so unimaginative (I think there are only about five of them) that they're hardly worth notice. Except for Westley in "The Princess Bride." Now there's a guy who could hurl and insult!

Marley23
07-05-2005, 04:57 PM
I can't remember ever being insulted by anyone black, but white insults are so unimaginative (I think there are only about five of them) that they're hardly worth notice. Except for Westley in "The Princess Bride." Now there's a guy who could hurl and insult!
British comedians can do it, and so can people who know how to imitate them. ;)

foolsguinea
07-05-2005, 06:22 PM
...a white guy you think you get along with can say shit so casually and offhand with racial connatations it can really fuck up your self-image. I have no idea if this is what Charlie Murphy meant, but that's my take.

By way of illustration, some actual shit that's been said to me, that's thrown me for a loop:

(supervisor on my last job, "getting to know me" over lunch) So... are your parents educated?

(When I announced to my high school art teacher that I was moving in with my father when I turned 15)
Are you sure your father wants you?

(Co-worker who dropped off a package for me at my grandparents home after the 50-cent tour)
Wow. I didn't know black people really owned houses like that... no offense.

(Talking about the TV "Moesha")
What's the name of that stupid ghetto-sounding show? Mooshu? Moshanna?
(P.S. My middle name is Moshe)Yeah, it's not even meant to be a blow to you as an individual. It's how they see the world. What's really frightening about the kind of thing you describe is that they're not consciously insulting anybody. They just think "ghetto" stuff is crappy, or black people are stupid.

And, oh, yeah, white people consciously or unconsciously tear down other white people all the time. I certainly had my self-image screwed up by people's assumptions growing up, & this was supposedly my own "race."

Wolfian
07-05-2005, 06:47 PM
"You fucking moron" is so...white.

From my experience, black people will pull out an insult meant to sting but also make an audience laugh (or stand back in awe). Like "get out my face, you bow-legged, fruity-ass, baboon-looking motherfucka". Hard-hitting but with a touch of humor that even the target can laugh at. Presentation is important. The more creative the insult is, the cooler the insulter will come across.

White people will tend to go straight to the heart with something like "cocksucking piece of ass shit". White people are the ones who coined the terms "asshole", "douchebag", "pantywaste", "dickhead", and "cunt". They are also more likely to call someone a "syphylitic whore" or use the words "moron", "idiot", "imbecile" in their invective speech. No less creative than "black" insults, mind you, but maybe a bit more caustic and less funny.

Ah, that's it. That's what I was going for in my first post. Thank you. One day I'll learn to write that well.

I suspect the origins of the ongoing decades long gangbanging between the Crips and Bloods can be traced backwards to a very wicked and inopportune "Yo Mama" joke.
I'd ask for that was a sig, but I love my current one too much.

Larry Borgia
07-05-2005, 07:15 PM
A long time ago in the GD forum, I posted an opinion that American white conservatives as a group are far more endlessly inventive when it comes to namecalling than pretty much anyone else out there of any political persuasion. No surprise, a bunch of people accused me of being biased and blinded. Screw them.

The main difference in getting insulted by white guys (in my experience) is that black people (generally) call you names or insult you when they're generally pissed-off at you, but a white guy you think you get along with can say shit so casually and offhand with racial connatations it can really fuck up your self-image. I have no idea if this is what Charlie Murphy meant, but that's my take.

By way of illustration, some actual shit that's been said to me, that's thrown me for a loop:

(supervisor on my last job, "getting to know me" over lunch) So... are your parents educated?

(When I announced to my high school art teacher that I was moving in with my father when I turned 15)
Are you sure your father wants you?

(Co-worker who dropped off a package for me at my grandparents home after the 50-cent tour)
Wow. I didn't know black people really owned houses like that... no offense.

(Talking about the TV "Moesha")
What's the name of that stupid ghetto-sounding show? Mooshu? Moshanna?
(P.S. My middle name is Moshe)

It sounds like the people you met are a bunch of ignorant racist asshats. (Is that insulting like a white guy? :) ) I don't even know if they realized how insulting they were being.

Askia
07-05-2005, 07:38 PM
Larry. See, I can't honestly say it's racist, though. Almost all of these are memorable because they were weird ass racial/class tinged comments taken out of context in otherwise perfectly innocuous everyday interactions. Some of them -- like my supervisor struggling to come up with small talk and common ground over lunch, or my art teacher's worrying about me going to live with my father -- were people significantly older than me, who had looked out for me. The comments about how ghetto "Moesha" sounds and the girl who ohhed and ahhed over all the original artwork all over my grandparents' five bedroom three bathroom house were just ignit. If my personality were less forgiving, I'd have reacted muuuuch more angrily. When dealing with racial matters I try not to get pissed as a first reaction, especially when its someone who's obviously trying to provoke me.

elelle
07-05-2005, 09:27 PM
Askia, your experiences given are about,(like your term)," just ignit", operating from stereotypical mindset, whether they mean well or not. Bound to be frustrating.

I think this is a fine jumping off point, though: your quote " If my personality were less forgiving, I'd have reacted muuuuch more angrily. When dealing with racial matters I try not to get pissed as a first reaction, especially when its someone who's obviously trying to provoke me."

Monstro's fine post in mind: I've found that insult in Black American tradition is well-honed and incredibly astute in framing the insult with double-entendre and wordplay, with allowance for the insultee to come back and show their mettle. Within culture, you're allowed to say your piece back, and you better be good at it, cause everyone might hoot at you otherwise. When insulting the powers that be, one needs to be more nuanced, to avoid the fallout, and leave them scratching their heads as to what was really said. A beautiful art.

White people have never had to develop this nuance, and are allowed to harrangue and insult without fear of having their, or their family's, asses supremely kicked into the ditch. It can be in more your face without the same reproach Black commentators have had to deal with.

Gary Robson
07-06-2005, 06:24 PM
The majority of those "white" sample insults in this thread sound like they came straight from "Insults for Dummies." When someone calls you a "fuckhead," he's really saying, "I don't have the vocabulary, creativity, or English skills to say what I want to say, so I'll fling out an old, trite, completely meaningless phrase that used to have shock value a few decades ago."

Casual male-bonding insults ("How are you doing, you ugly old bastard?") are intentionally banal, and aren't meant to hurt, or even to have a point.

Trying to insult someone for real with a ridiculous word like "douchebag" is pointless. If you want to tell someone that he's a loud, arrogant, obnoxious, puffed-up clod who's monopolizing the conversation with jokes that aren't funny and observations that miss the point, say that. Don't just call him an asshat.

The insult game that the black guys play (there's a word for it, but I can't remember what it's called) is a whole different story. There, it's not about accuracy or making it hurt for real. It's all about being creative. It's an art form. It's enjoyable entertainment. It makes you want to buy a drink for the winner.

I think pantywaste is pretty funny.
Just for the record, it's "pantywaist," not "pantywaste." The older generation will remember pantywaists as child's underwear where the shirt buttoned to the underpants. We're talking about serious sissy stuff here, which is how the word pantywaist came to refer to someone wimpy.

Ummm.... The joke there is that he's doing what Rush does.
I know that. But Franken chose not to rise above it, but rather start slinging third-grade playground insults himself. It's only one of many examples, of course.

Cat Fight
07-06-2005, 10:31 PM
Come on, guys. It's Charlie Murphy. In the contxt of the actual bit, I felt like "white" did just mean that he hadn't been exposed to that kind of humour a lot and that it was infused with a sense of self-entitlement (all "white guilt" aside) and absolute disregard for what others and their judgment.

Max the Immortal
07-06-2005, 11:34 PM
Fun Fact!: The Shakespearean insult "A plague upon you!" doesn't seem very hurtful to modern people, until you consider that during Shakespeare's time, the plague was very real; most people lost at least one loved one to the plague. Saying "A plague upon you!" to an englishman 400 years ago is equivalent to saying "I hope you die of AIDS!" to a gay man today.

js_africanus
07-07-2005, 08:27 AM
Casual male-bonding insults ("How are you doing, you ugly old bastard?") are intentionally banal, and aren't meant to hurt, or even to have a point.
True enough. Like when George Costanza had to entertain the Texans.

Monstro's fine post in mind: I've found that insult in Black American tradition is well-honed and incredibly astute in framing the insult with double-entendre and wordplay, with allowance for the insultee to come back and show their mettle. Within culture, you're allowed to say your piece back, and you better be good at it, cause everyone might hoot at you otherwise. When insulting the powers that be, one needs to be more nuanced, to avoid the fallout, and leave them scratching their heads as to what was really said. A beautiful art.

Come on, guys. It's Charlie Murphy. In the contxt of the actual bit, I felt like "white" did just mean that he hadn't been exposed to that kind of humour a lot and that it was infused with a sense of self-entitlement (all "white guilt" aside) and absolute disregard for what others and their judgment.
Since Charlie was familiar w/ the guy, I still am skeptical of the lack-of-exposure aspect, but the sense of utter, and utterly sincere, contempt in the insult really came through in the story. I'm getting the impression that "insulting like a white guy" has to do with communicating sincerity (sp?) and contempt, as though the insultee really is no better than a douchebag. (Not that I have anything against douchebags.)

Evil One
07-07-2005, 10:42 AM
If I really want to insult someone, I try to get into their head a bit before I speak and look for vulnerabilities that they can't do anything about. For example, I once told a young man that I was annoyed with that he had below average intelligence and that he would die broke, fat and stupid. I phrased it just that way.

It does no good to reference all purpose and overused general insults. The real target is their self-esteem and self image.

UrbanChic
07-07-2005, 11:05 AM
If I really want to insult someone, I try to get into their head a bit before I speak and look for vulnerabilities that they can't do anything about. For example, I once told a young man that I was annoyed with that he had below average intelligence and that he would die broke, fat and stupid. I phrased it just that way.

It does no good to reference all purpose and overused general insults. The real target is their self-esteem and self image.Hi, Mom!

js_africanus
07-07-2005, 01:16 PM
British comedians can do it, and so can people who know how to imitate them. ;)

HOOLIGAN: So I tell the swamp donkey to sock it before I give her a trunky in the tradesman's entrance and have her lick me yardballs!

COOPER: Wow. You guys are on a completely different level of swearing here.

Though Mr. Barnard is a good one, too:

"Shut your festering gob, you tit! Your type really makes me puke you vacuous, toffy-nosed, malodorous pervert!"

WordMan
07-07-2005, 02:14 PM
[John Cleese as the Angry Frenchman]

"Your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of elderberries!"

"I fart in your general direction!"

[/John Cleese as the Angry Frenchman]

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

And regarding those "unintendedly racist/condescending" insults described above - sorry, but I don't buy it. Even if the person isn't fully conscious of the implications of what they are saying, its still some passive/aggressive bullshit and they should be called on it - or at least the person on the receiving end should take note about the quality of the insulter's character.

WordMan
07-07-2005, 02:29 PM
[John Cleese as the Angry Frenchman]

"Your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of elderberries!"

"I fart in your general direction!"

[/John Cleese as the Angry Frenchman]

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

And regarding those "unintendedly racist/condescending" insults described above - sorry, but I don't buy it. Even if the person isn't fully conscious of the implications of what they are saying, its still some passive/aggressive bullshit and they should be called on it - or at least the person on the receiving end should take note about the quality of the insulter's character.

WordMan
07-07-2005, 02:32 PM
Rats.

Sorry for the double-post - and wouldja believe it if I told you I even checked to see if my post made it before I tried again? :smack:

dropzone
07-07-2005, 04:22 PM
Monstro's fine post in mind: I've found that insult in Black American tradition is well-honed and incredibly astute in framing the insult with double-entendre and wordplay, with allowance for the insultee to come back and show their mettle. Within culture, you're allowed to say your piece back, and you better be good at it, cause everyone might hoot at you otherwise. When insulting the powers that be, one needs to be more nuanced, to avoid the fallout, and leave them scratching their heads as to what was really said. A beautiful art.Yeah. That's why I read "He insults like a white guy," as a terrible, terrible thing to say about somebody. Viscious and intentionally hurtful.

Gee, I wish I could insult like a black man. I'm stuck being unnuanced and artless because of my culture. :(

js_africanus
07-08-2005, 08:18 AM
Gee, I wish I could insult like a black man. I'm stuck being unnuanced and artless because of my culture. :(
Because you have a :( rather than a :rolleyes:, I thought I just might note that if you consider George Costanza's experience vis-à-vis Charlie Murphy's, the absence of nuance is in the eye of the beholder. You've got all the art & nuance you need with body language and inflection. I believe in you!

dropzone
07-08-2005, 10:18 AM
Yeah, but those are usually too subtle while my speaking style is too dry. I don't know how many times* I've been at a company party and a co-worker's wife turned to her husband and said, "drop seems so quiet and polite but then he lets off a real zinger. Why didn't you tell me he was so funny?"

"He is? I never noticed."

I'm condemned to a life of casting my pearls before swine, but if I could rip off never-before-told "Yo mama" jokes at the drop of a hat that'd be sweet!



* - Okay, I lied. It was twice, but that's more than once and my egomania says that makes it a consensus.

js_africanus
07-08-2005, 11:00 AM
Fair enough, except that when someone does get it, it's really great. If you were Drop—the Obvious Guy, you'd get old really quickly. Better to be Dr. Strangelove than Austin Powers, IMO.

dropzone
07-08-2005, 12:44 PM
Aw, shucks! Ya got me blushin'. :)

msmith537
07-08-2005, 12:57 PM
I'm thinking that "insulting like a white guy" basically means laying down the insults that only someone born into the relative wealth and affluence of upper-middle class/wealthy white culture can lay down.

It's like the old racial joke: "What do you call a black man with a Phd/MD/JD, etc - N****"

It's an attitude of like "no matter how much you achieve, you will never earn my respect and I will never even care about earning yours."

It's why being called "fag" or "pussy" by the football team is so powerful and the same insult from the chess team isn't. The footbal guys are usually popular. They are the standard by which other kids in the school are judged and they know it. It's like "we know you hate us, but you also want to be us".

At least that's my theory.





British comedians can do it, and so can people who know how to imitate them. ;)


Those guys are on a whole other level of profanity.

foolsguinea
08-02-2005, 04:26 PM
If I really want to insult someone, I try to get into their head a bit before I speak and look for vulnerabilities that they can't do anything about. For example, I once told a young man that I was annoyed with that he had below average intelligence and that he would die broke, fat and stupid. I phrased it just that way.

It does no good to reference all purpose and overused general insults. The real target is their self-esteem and self image.Hi, Mom!Best. Comeback. EVAR.

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