PDA

View Full Version : Was the original Japanese version of Sailor Moon pornographic?


BluePitbull
11-09-2005, 03:26 PM
Or is the rumors false?

VarlosZ
11-09-2005, 04:03 PM
Just type "Sailor Moon porn" into Google. I'm sure that'll give you the answer.

Ponder Stibbons
11-09-2005, 04:35 PM
Shouldn't that be "Sailor Poon"?

Polycarp
11-09-2005, 05:13 PM
As I understand it (and I had friends who followed it but never did myself), Sailor Moon in the original was not pornographic per se but had a very clear Lesbian subtext that was bowlderized in the American release. Which is not to say that there wasn't some eroticism involved.

Menocchio
11-09-2005, 06:00 PM
What Polycarp said, plus, in the original, she's clearly nude during the transformation sequence.

I think it's more a matter of different societal taboos than the Japanese version being porn.

bouv
11-09-2005, 07:00 PM
Yeah, not so much porn, as it is most anime, it seems, has some kind of nudity/toplessness in its original form. I don't know why Japanese cartoon producers seem to think everyone wants to see animated boobies, but if it helps them sell their product, more power to them. But I would think that with approx. 90% of all anime showing boobies, it's not so much a marketing point as it is just the norm to have them in there. Like maybe how most American cartoons have...ummm...something. I'm sure most American cartoons share some kind of similar quality, but I don't know what it is. Maybe some foreigner can tell us something they notice in most American cartoons that isn't in theirs.

Anaamika
11-09-2005, 07:53 PM
Ranma 1/2has lots of boobies and it's one of the more innocent animes. Just a cultural difference. We Americans are fairly uptight about boobies.

I'm a girl and I vote for more boobies in movies.

OtakuLoki
11-09-2005, 07:56 PM
No. The original manga by Takeuchi Naoko was racy by American standards, but far from pornographic.

Having said that, there was a delay of all of a month before pornographic doujinshi began to show up.

Since then there's been the anime (non-pornographic), the musicals, and the live-action (non-pornographic) series. And more pornographic and merely suggestive manga and doujinshi than one can shake a ... stick, dammit. I meant to say stick! Ah hem. And at least one live-action pornographic movie I've heard about, plus several animated "parodies."

Revenant Threshold
11-09-2005, 07:56 PM
I'm a guy and I vote for more boobies in movies ;) but only because the whole "guy and girl wake up after sleeping together, sheet is placed just right to cover any naughty bits" is silly. More genitals in general, please.

Lumpy
11-09-2005, 08:10 PM
And more brother-sister incestuous subtext. The Japanese are a lot more open about horny teenage boys oogling their sisters, though admittedly it usually doesn't go anywhere.

Evil Captor
11-09-2005, 08:40 PM
No. The original manga by Takeuchi Naoko was racy by American standards, but far from pornographic.

I have encountered a lot of people on the Dope who say that if it's got boobies or butts, it's porn. No matter how little, no matter why, no matter if there's a lot of non-sexual content as well. They're Americans. So I seriously doubt if your idea of American standards is universal. (My own take is that it's not porn if it has any real attempt at plot and characterization, even if it includes explicit sex, but I don't think I have a lot of company there.)

dotchan
11-09-2005, 09:09 PM
Dude, she's a girl who uses a wand to "make up" into a short-skirted warrior for love. Of course there's subtext. Freud would have a field day with this stuff. (In fact, every once in a while some troll on rec.arts.anime.misc would publish his great thesis about Sailor Moon and the Sacred Feminine...)

But pornographic? Whoever suggested that has obviously never seen any actual porn from Japan.

Jayn_Newell
11-09-2005, 10:41 PM
Argh, my post got eaten! I hope it'll help the hampsters run faster...

Anyways, as far as nudity--in the original, they were technically naked when they transformed. But this is true for the dub as well--they're just really glowy and sparkly soyou dont' notice as much (though there was a slight panty shot in Jupiter's transformation that was hidden with a flash of light in the early part of the dub). There's some real nudity later on, including the infamous scene in the last episode where we can clearly see that Usagi has the anatomy of a Barbie doll. No Tittygates here.

About those gaydar readings you're getting, the original featured 5 gay main characters in various seasons. Season one had Zoicite and Kunzite, season 3 has Uranus and Neptune, and season 4 had Fish Eye who hit on all the boys. (I'm not touching Seiya's crush on Usagi--does that count as gay, straight or bi?). Zoicite and Fish Eye became females in the dub, and Uranus and Neptune pretended to be cousins. Rather, the dub had them as cousins, but they acted rather friendly for that kind of relationship (Show of hands--who knows what I mean when I mention the hand-sex scene? I never did anything like that with any of MY cousins).

My vote--not porn. Not by a longshot.

JustAnotherGeek
11-09-2005, 10:58 PM
I'm a girl and I vote for more boobies in movies.
I'm a guy, and I, for one, welcome our new boobie overlords... err overladies. :D






yeah, it had to be said, and yeah, I'm such a :wally

Hamish
11-09-2005, 11:43 PM
A magazine called <b>Anime Insider</b> once published a top *50* list of cuts from <b>Sailor Moon</b>. But as others have said, it was nudity and suggestiveness that were cut, not graphic sex. Also, queer characters were heterosexualized, and all references to teens drinking alcohol and some bathroom humour was removed.

I've heard some aspects of the ending were changed as well.

This tended to happen a lot, and still does occasionally, with anime. Most North Americans have never seen an uncut version of <b>Card Captor Sakura</b> (which has one gay couple and a lesbian crush). When <b>The Battleship Yamato</b> was turned into <b>Starblazers</b>, the truly disturbing ending was altered, and a number of deaths were changed into non-fatal injuries.

An honest subtitled translation of <b>Neon Genesis Evangelion</b> replaced the censored VHS subtitles on the DVD release, though the original subtitling problems may have just been a bad translation as opposed to actual censorship.

Hamish
11-09-2005, 11:44 PM
I will remember that Vb code uses square brackets...
I will remember that Vb code uses square brackets...
I will remember that Vb code uses square brackets...

:smack:

Jayn_Newell
11-10-2005, 12:03 AM
I've heard some aspects of the ending were changed as well.

Which ending? The ending of the first season was horribly altered--namely, cut from two episodes to one. Although in general I actually prefer the dub, this is one instance where I greatly, greatly prefer the original. There are some very touching moments (My favorite one being one where Usagi will not kiss Mamoru). In this instance though, the edits were more to do with violence than with anything sexual. There were other instances of violence being cut as well, my pet peeve being when Mars slaps Moon--the scene following the cut doesn't make sense without it. But the final episode of Season 1 is jumpy, haphazard and confusing in English. I remember the last time I watched it, I don't think I'd even seen the original yet, yet every couple minutes I was thinking to myself, "Cut." I don't know how I made sense of it when I was ten. I've watched enough anime in Japanese now that it's easy to see where things probably were changed in translation.

The actual ending to the series lies in the never-officially-translated fifth season, so that one hasn't been changed at all. I'm unaware of what changes may have been made to the other four storyline endings.


I call myself a Ghost in the Shell fangirl and what do I spend all my time talking about?

As far as anime tending to get altered in translation, it depends on which company is doing the translation, and who their audience is. Groups like Manga and ADV seem to be good about staying authentic to the original, and they cater to the older group, especially those who care about that stuff. Groups like Nelvana and 4Kids (Oh how I loathe 4Kids...) tend to aim towards a younger audience, and change more in their shows. The types of shows each company will translate will vary depending on their audience, but those aiming at younger viewers seem to do more Americanizing with their translations (these usually being the more cliche-ish type shows to begin with).

Hamish
11-10-2005, 07:51 AM
Which ending? The ending of the first season was horribly altered--namely, cut from two episodes to one.

I'd heard that the ending of the series involved several deaths that were cut out. I'm going by Anime Insider's description, however.

As far as anime tending to get altered in translation, it depends on which company is doing the translation, and who their audience is. Groups like Manga and ADV seem to be good about staying authentic to the original, and they cater to the older group, especially those who care about that stuff. [/QUOTE]

ADV has gotten a lot better, but there were quite a few things left on the cutting-room floor in their older days. I'm pretty sure at least one of the scenes of [b]Evangelion was intentionally mangled, though a few others seem to be genuine mistakes.

I can't fault them lately, though.

Though I fully agree about Nelvana. I've never seen anything done by 4Kids -- what have they done?

Jayn_Newell
11-10-2005, 10:39 AM
Though I fully agree about Nelvana. I've never seen anything done by 4Kids -- what have they done?

They do all the FoxKids shows, like One Piece and Shaman King. I've only heard of ADV recently, and actually haven't watched much dubbed by them--I personally only own subs by them (though I want to see Chrno Crusade).

And yes, in the final episode of season 1, everyone dies (not for the last time either). Darien, all four scouts in turn (their ghosts come back to comfort Sailor Moon--interestingly this was cut out of the episode but left in the episode preview, or was it Sailor Moon Says? Whatever, it was there.) and Sailor Moon herself almost dies from using the crystal, but then wishes to be a normal girl again and that brings everyone back to life, sans their memories. I'm just being nitpicky because as I said, the final ending hasn't been shown here. But this episode seems to be touted a lot as the Holy Grail of Bad Dubbing and Censorship.

I haven't seen the original Cardcaptor Sakura, but I'd like to. The dub is still watchable though.

kushiel
11-10-2005, 10:52 AM
I've never seen anything done by 4Kids -- what have they done?

Pretty much everything you'll find on the Fox Box or Kids WB. Okay, not all of it, but about that. Yugioh, Shaman King, Tokyo Mew Mew, One Piece...

Evil Captor
11-10-2005, 11:04 AM
Most of the time the stuff left out is relatively tame, but there's a WORLD of difference between what was cut out of the original US release of "Kite" and the Director's cut. It didn't take up that much time, but it was pure XXX stuff. And I understand the original Japanese release contained scenes that were explicit kitty pron.

Hamish
11-10-2005, 11:33 AM
Most of the time the stuff left out is relatively tame, but there's a WORLD of difference between what was cut out of the original US release of "Kite" and the Director's cut. It didn't take up that much time, but it was pure XXX stuff. And I understand the original Japanese release contained scenes that were explicit kitty pron.

Kitty porn! Cats going at it? :eek:

Can I assume you mean kiddie porn...? I've seen the first episode series that would qualify as shota (involving kids that aren't legal anywhere). There was no sex in that episode, but a very strong suggestion that there would be eventually.

I don't believe in censorship, but I don't think I'd willingly watch something like that. It gave me the creeps.

It does fascinate me that the debate over violent movies and television hasn't made one dent in Japanese consciousness. Even more fascinating is that a comparison of violent and sexual crime in Japan, and in the US, would seem to suggest that violence and sex on TV doesn't make one iota of difference in how people behave :confused:

(Thinking about it, that shota series I mentioned, Loveless, could probably qualify as "kitty porn" as well, since everyone there had cat ears until they lost their virginity :dubious: )

Jayn_Newell
11-10-2005, 02:38 PM
(Thinking about it, that shota series I mentioned, Loveless, could probably qualify as "kitty porn" as well, since everyone there had cat ears until they lost their virginity :dubious: )

Alright, porn does not grab my attention very much. But mention cat ears and I'm interested. I'm disturbed...I think I've actually found something worse than my magical girl addiction.

You brought up some interesting points though. And Japanese shows seem to be less antsy about killing off characters, especially in short-run shows (short run, by my definition being 52-eps or less, since those that go longer tend to go WAY longer). Heck, I just watched the first episode of Fafner last week, and I don't think I've ever seen so much death in a premiere episode, including a girl I thought was going to be one of the main characters. And although I'm at the point now that I can read the trends of what is going to happen, this show actually surprised me at times. It was refreshing.

Dijon Warlock
11-10-2005, 06:20 PM
I have encountered a lot of people on the Dope who say that if it's got boobies or butts, it's porn. No matter how little, no matter why, no matter if there's a lot of non-sexual content as well. They're Americans. So I seriously doubt if your idea of American standards is universal. (My own take is that it's not porn if it has any real attempt at plot and characterization, even if it includes explicit sex, but I don't think I have a lot of company there.)As an American, I can vouch for the fact that ANY standards are not universal. I grew up in the Midwest (traditionally a very sexually conservative environment), and still do not understand the objection to sexuality/porn that everyone else has (including my own family). I grew up here, and I STILL don't see what the big deal is.

People have parts, just like everything else. Those parts want to go together. That's how biology works. That's how LIFE works.

Nothing pornographic or sexual has ever bothered me. The objection to it seems far worse.

Anastasaeon
11-10-2005, 06:30 PM
Ranma 1/2has lots of boobies and it's one of the more innocent animes. Just a cultural difference. We Americans are fairly uptight about boobies.

I'm a girl and I vote for more boobies in movies.

I'm a girl, too. MORE BOOBIES!

What is so wrong with nudity? I would like more of it. And I'm not saying that as a nymphomaniac, either, I'm saying that as someone from Canada who's seen plenty of boobies on regular television. Remember the Radiohead video for Paranoid Android? Our mermaids didn't have the weird added bikini tops. They had regular old non-sexually exciting animated boobies. And when I moved here, I get a lot of Americans asking me, "Is it true that you guys have porn on regular channels?!"

No, not porn. Nudity, sure. Racy? Sometimes. But not always. Why would it be?

I love Ranma 1/2. When he's running along with his shirt torn, I just know there's going to be some cold water coming in contact with him any time. And when it does, I laugh and laugh and laugh... poor Ranma! :D

Ranchoth
11-10-2005, 08:24 PM
Maybe some foreigner can tell us something they notice in most American cartoons that isn't in theirs.

Happy endings?

Evil Captor
11-10-2005, 08:52 PM
Kitty porn! Cats going at it? :eek:

Can I assume you mean kiddie porn...?

I mean EXPLICIT kiddie porn. But I can't vouch for that personally, as I've not seen the original Japanese version and have only read references to it in online reviews. I have seen the directors' cut which includes explicit XXX sexual bondage, things going in and out of things in plain sight, the characters being adult though.

My wife is a fan of Tenchi Moyu and has gotten eps from Japan that include nudity. Whole different culture over there.

Dijon Warlock
11-11-2005, 08:31 AM
Well, I don't mean to seem really stupid here, but...

I (several years ago) purchased a Japanese animated video (Twin Angels, Vol. I), and found the disclaimer rather perplexing. They made a very big deal about the fact that all of the characters portrayed in sexual situations (which was damned near all of them) were at least 19 years old.

My reaction: "Duh-WHUH?"

They're CARTOONS! Paint on celluloid! I am sorry, but I do NOT understand this.I'm a girl, too. MORE BOOBIES!So...how YOU doin'?

(I am, of course, being slightly flippant, but I admire, share, and wish to engulf myself in your mindset. Flirt with me. I promise I will like it.)

Evil Captor
11-11-2005, 09:05 AM
Well, I don't mean to seem really stupid here, but...

I (several years ago) purchased a Japanese animated video (Twin Angels, Vol. I), and found the disclaimer rather perplexing. They made a very big deal about the fact that all of the characters portrayed in sexual situations (which was damned near all of them) were at least 19 years old.

My reaction: "Duh-WHUH?"

They're CARTOONS! Paint on celluloid! I am sorry, but I do NOT understand this.So...how YOU doin'?

(I am, of course, being slightly flippant, but I admire, share, and wish to engulf myself in your mindset. Flirt with me. I promise I will like it.)

I believe that it's illegal to portray minors as engaging in sexual acts, even drawings of minors. I don't know that this has ever been tested in court, though. It would be an interesting test, to say the least.

Dijon Warlock
11-11-2005, 01:36 PM
I believe that it's illegal to portray minors as engaging in sexual acts, even drawings of minors. I don't know that this has ever been tested in court, though. It would be an interesting test, to say the least.Yeah..."interesting"...ROWF! ;) I vote for extensive research, heh-heh-heh...

Actually, I'm not sure of the current state of the law these days (abysmal, I'm guessing), but I know that people have at least tried to pass such legislation, even going so far as to extend that prohibition to *imaginary* minors such as cartoons (not to mention images of children with their clothes ON).

Truly, stupidity knows no bounds.

Miller
11-11-2005, 01:56 PM
I believe that it's illegal to portray minors as engaging in sexual acts, even drawings of minors. I don't know that this has ever been tested in court, though. It would be an interesting test, to say the least.

No cite, but I seem to recall reading that this has been overturned.

JRDelirious
11-11-2005, 04:18 PM
No cite, but I seem to recall reading that this has been overturned.
Anti-virtual CP law overturned once; reworded, tweaked, re-passed... and re-smacked down by courts in 2002; re-reworded, re-tweaked and partly included within the PROTECT Act of 2003 (the one that gave us "Amber Alerts"). Common commentary is that they have indeed narrowed it to apply to really pornographic ("I know it when I see it";)) representations rather than just any possibly sexual context, and that in practice it's focused mainly on CG 3D renderings. Untested that I'm aware of. From what I read, I think this time they're taking the tack of not calling unreal-character porn "portraying minors" as CP (requires actual child) but putting it in a special category of obscene (since obscene is obscene, whether real or fictional). But that's just speculation here, I've never asked a lawyer to read it.

tracer
11-11-2005, 06:13 PM
a very clear Lesbian subtext that was bowlderized in the American release.
YM "bowdlerized". HTH. ;)

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright 2018 STM Reader, LLC.