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control-z
12-04-2006, 10:51 AM
Our local school system is having a workshop on Cyberbullying:

"Cyberbullying: A Workshop for Parents/ Guardians on the Risks Involved and
Protective Factors, sponsored by the School Counseling and Guidance
Department, will be held on Tuesday, January 9, 2007 at 7:15 PM in the
Middle School Forum. A guest speaker from the Virginia
Department of State Police will speak with parents of middle and high
school students on the risks involved with Internet usage (specifically
cyberbullying) and protective factors to help prevent children from being
bullied on the Internet. This workshop is not intended for children, but
for parents and guardians only."

How can you be bullyed over the Internet? If it's IMs, just block the user. If it's e-mails, just filter the messages, or delete them. Seems like much ado over nothing.

sqweels
12-04-2006, 11:02 AM
I don't know much, but as I understand it, cyberbullying includes classmates spreading e-mail rumors about you or posting embarrassing things about you on their own websites. There's a lot less you can do about that than with stuff that comes directly to you.

Patty O'Furniture
12-04-2006, 11:23 AM
13 year old Ryan Halligan (http://www.ryanpatrickhalligan.org/) hanged himself as a result of cyberbullying.

Then there is Olivia Gardner (http://www.marinij.com/ci_3643735) who has (or had) an internet hate page dedicated to her, all because she suffered an epileptic seizure at school one day.

hey alright
12-04-2006, 11:26 AM
Shit can get crazy with the kids what with the Myspace and all.

Green Cymbeline
12-04-2006, 01:23 PM
Cyberbullying isn't just confined to kids. Some adults here on the SDMB routinely engage in this also. There is a certain web site (The Site Which Must Not Be Named) created by some anonymous dopers that is dedicated to talking vicious trash about other dopers.

The kids at least have somewhat of an excuse - they're kids. The hateful adults bashing fellow dopers, however, should be truly ashamed.

control-z
12-04-2006, 04:54 PM
Well, I guess the Cyberbullying probably starts with regular teasing and bullying and the cyber part is just a manifestation of that. I could see how defaming web pages would hurt kids unless they were very thick-skinned.

samclem
12-04-2006, 07:40 PM
The kids at least have somewhat of an excuse - they're kids. The hateful adults bashing fellow dopers, however, should be truly ashamed. Nah! They have the same excuse. :)

Captain Amazing
12-04-2006, 07:53 PM
How is gossiping about people bullying? It might not be a nice thing to do, but it's not like, "Give me your lunch money or I'll beat you up."

ENugent
12-04-2006, 08:00 PM
How is gossiping about people bullying? It might not be a nice thing to do, but it's not like, "Give me your lunch money or I'll beat you up."
How about "give me your lunch money or I'll tell the whole sixth grade that you're a slut?"

Captain Amazing
12-04-2006, 08:05 PM
Yea, I guess it's just extortion by another name. But if I'm going to tell everybody you're a slut, does it really matter whether I do it face to face or on the internet?

And what if I decide to go around telling people you're a slut, not because I want anything from you, but just because I think you're a slut and want to talk to other people about how slutty you are.

*The "you" and "I" in the above post were a generalized "you" and "I" I have no particular knowledge of Enugent's slutiness or lack thereof.

Guinastasia
12-04-2006, 08:06 PM
How is gossiping about people bullying? It might not be a nice thing to do, but it's not like, "Give me your lunch money or I'll beat you up."


Let's see, I've seen people spread gossip about people accusing them of various crimes, sexual indiscretions, mental illness, physical deformities. I've seen people accused of being child molestors, and/or abusers, for example.

You don't see how that would hurt someone?

drachillix
12-04-2006, 08:12 PM
How is gossiping about people bullying? It might not be a nice thing to do, but it's not like, "Give me your lunch money or I'll beat you up."

I did some data recovery work to retrieve chat logs from a machine owned by a 14 y/o boy who was arrested for threats made in Yahoo IM.

One of my more interesting calls.

Kid could be a doper with a vocabulary like I saw in those logs.

Captain Amazing
12-04-2006, 09:08 PM
Let's see, I've seen people spread gossip about people accusing them of various crimes, sexual indiscretions, mental illness, physical deformities. I've seen people accused of being child molestors, and/or abusers, for example.

You don't see how that would hurt someone?
Sure, it would hurt somebody. But it's not bullying...it's not physically hurting them or threatening them with physical pain. It's hurting their feelings, it's hurting their self esteem or their sense of self-worth, maybe, but it's not physically painful.

It's bad, but it's not bullying.

Monty
12-04-2006, 09:10 PM
How can someone be bullied over the Internet? Ask the "dog poop" girl here in South Korea. Her life was made a living hell when pictures of her critter's mess on the subway car were plastered all over the 'net. The reason people got upset with her was because she just left the mess there.

Guinastasia
12-04-2006, 09:20 PM
Sure, it would hurt somebody. But it's not bullying...it's not physically hurting them or threatening them with physical pain. It's hurting their feelings, it's hurting their self esteem or their sense of self-worth, maybe, but it's not physically painful.

It's bad, but it's not bullying.


Bullying is not just physical threats. Most people I know were the targets of bullies who never even laid a finger on them.

Methinks you are defining the word "bully" far too narrowly.

Monty
12-04-2006, 10:13 PM
How can someone be bullied over the Internet? Ask the "dog poop" girl here in South Korea.
Here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_poop_girl) is a handy Wikipedia article about the case. There's a link to her apology there also (in Korean, of course).

MsRobyn
12-04-2006, 11:06 PM
There's also the aspect of people saying things anonymously that they wouldn't dare say to their victim's face.

Blocking IMs does nothing if the bully changes usernames. Ditto for e-mails. And what with zero-tolerance policies, all it takes is a Photoshopped image of someone appearing to do something illegal to make that person's life a living hell with school and family, if not with the law.

Robin

Zabali_Clawbane
12-04-2006, 11:30 PM
Sure, it would hurt somebody. But it's not bullying...it's not physically hurting them or threatening them with physical pain. It's hurting their feelings, it's hurting their self esteem or their sense of self-worth, maybe, but it's not physically painful.

It's bad, but it's not bullying.

Some the things Guin mentioned are slander or lible though. That is illegal, and a form of bullying* too, since it's used to cause emotional distress and harass the person. The loss of one's personal reputation is not a thing to be lightly dismissed, and there are legal recourses a victim of slander or lible can take to remedy it. Here (http://www.bullyonline.org/related/cyber.htm) is a page from the bullyonline site about cyberbullying.

*See the full list here (http://www.bullyonline.org/workbully/serial.htm), these are the especially pertinent bits:

is quick to discredit and neutralise anyone who can talk knowledgeably about antisocial or sociopathic behaviors (That, or who don't fall for thier act.)

may pursue a vindictive vendetta against anyone who dares to held them accountable, perhaps using others' resources and contemptuous of the damage caused to other people and organisations in pursuance of the vendetta

is also quick to belittle, undermine, denigrate and discredit anyone who calls, attempts to call, or might call the bully to account (Or who stands up to them and doesn't give them what they want.)

poisons peoples' minds by manipulating their perceptions Bracketed text in dark red font is my thoughts, and not part of bullyonline.

All of these things can be applied to some extent to what is done by cyberbullies online, that is what the aggressor is doing. Even those bullies who shrug and say they harass their victims "just for kicks" still have some of those traits.

alice_in_wonderland
12-04-2006, 11:50 PM
FWIW, bullying done by boys tends to involve smacking the other person around.

Bullying done by girls tends to involve defemation of character, alienation of affection, etc. etc.

Many psychologists actually think female bullying is worse in terms of visciousness, long term effects for the victim, etc.

YMMV and all that.

msmith537
12-05-2006, 10:01 AM
Quit Pitting yourself...quit Pitting yourself...




And what with zero-tolerance policies, all it takes is a Photoshopped image of someone appearing to do something illegal to make that person's life a living hell with school and family, if not with the law.



I think you overestimate most people's skill with Photoshop. Most Photoshopped fakes are fairly obvious and look like a yearbook photo pasted onto a magazine ad.

Still, even if it's an obvious fake, most people don't like pictures of their head on some dude having sex with a donkey.

Poysyn
12-05-2006, 10:20 AM
Let's also not forget that alot of cyberbullying happens to children and teens, a group that places a high regard on what other people think, and some of them put down others in an misguided attempt to keep themselves from being "victims". A well-placed rumor, whether on the net or in person could cause someone to be ostracized and isolated if not physically attacked.

tdn
12-05-2006, 10:41 AM
There is a certain web site (The Site Which Must Not Be Named)
This is the second time I have read about this, but I have no idea what it is. I realize that it would be a bad idea for anyone to link to it here, so please do not try to satisfy my curiosity by contacting me at tneal at partners dot org.

Lobelia Overhill
12-05-2006, 12:06 PM
I've been a victim of cyber bullying, someone took a spite to me and told a pack of lies about me in a chatroom, I then was flamed "fuck off you bitch" being the most popular 'comment', was sent PMs telling me "I hate you, I'm never posting here again" and emails including one from someone telling me I needed to be locked up because I'm a danger to the public...

There is a message board dedicated to the hatred of me where people have posted all sorts of crap about my mental health.

It might not bother yous, but I've suffered several panic attacks as a result of the stress caused by the harassment

MsRobyn
12-05-2006, 12:56 PM
Quit Pitting yourself...quit Pitting yourself...






I think you overestimate most people's skill with Photoshop. Most Photoshopped fakes are fairly obvious and look like a yearbook photo pasted onto a magazine ad.

Still, even if it's an obvious fake, most people don't like pictures of their head on some dude having sex with a donkey.

It's not that hard. A friend with some but not much Photoshop experience replaced his head with someone else's. It took all of about five minutes and while it looked faked, you really had to look to see that.

I wonder how many administrators would give any online image more than a cursory glance. That's where the danger is, not in any particular skill level.

Robin

Kalhoun
12-05-2006, 01:17 PM
Sure, it would hurt somebody. But it's not bullying...it's not physically hurting them or threatening them with physical pain. It's hurting their feelings, it's hurting their self esteem or their sense of self-worth, maybe, but it's not physically painful.

It's bad, but it's not bullying.
Bullying is not limited to physical assault. It never was. It is ANY form of intimidation or threat.

Señor Piña
12-05-2006, 07:51 PM
There's also the aspect of people saying things anonymously that they wouldn't dare say to their victim's face.

Blocking IMs does nothing if the bully changes usernames. Ditto for e-mails. And what with zero-tolerance policies, all it takes is a Photoshopped image of someone appearing to do something illegal to make that person's life a living hell with school and family, if not with the law.

RobinI'm not saying that cyberbullying doesn't exist, but in the examples you use it wouldn't be that hard to block out a bully.

On IMs like MSN Messenger, for example, the only people who can send you messages are the ones you've allowed on your list... no one is forced to be on systems where anyone is able to message them. And it doesn't matter how often a bully changes their email if they don't know yours.

The problem is that most kids DON'T have the sense to just avoid doing things that make them easy targets.

CarnalK
12-05-2006, 08:19 PM
I've been a victim of cyber bullying, someone took a spite to me and told a pack of lies about me in a chatroom, I then was flamed "fuck off you bitch" being the most popular 'comment', was sent PMs telling me "I hate you, I'm never posting here again" and emails including one from someone telling me I needed to be locked up because I'm a danger to the public...

There is a message board dedicated to the hatred of me where people have posted all sorts of crap about my mental health.


I am kind of curious, one person's lying in a chat room inspired a "we hate Lobelia" message board? What sort of forum were you involved with that set this off?


Not accusing at all but I'm curious because the only time I've really heard about an "anti-fan" forum (with more than 1 member,lol) about a non-celebrity was with a former member here named I_Dig_Bad_Boys (a.k.a IDBB, a.k.a 80sHairMetalMaven). She had a habit of trolling Disney sites and earned her [url href="http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=fixiechicken42&mode=full">anti-fan site[/url] trolling breast feeding LJ communities.

CarnalK
12-05-2006, 08:28 PM
Damn, screwed that up three ways from Sunday! I would have previewed but the board stalled out on me so I just hit "submit" on the third try.

"fixiechicken" anti-fan site (http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=fixiechicken42&mode=full)(she called herself "dixiechicken" on the breastfeeding sites)

Rilchiam
12-05-2006, 08:41 PM
Sure, it would hurt somebody. But it's not bullying...it's not physically hurting them or threatening them with physical pain. It's hurting their feelings, it's hurting their self esteem or their sense of self-worth, maybe, but it's not physically painful.

It's bad, but it's not bullying.

Elaine Benes: "Oh, we just teased her until she developed an eating disorder."

groman
12-06-2006, 05:42 AM
Another aspect that makes verbal (be it in person, phone or internet) bullying so much worse than physical is that typically the power the person has is directly proportional to the social status within the audience that they have and you do not. In a way being physically bullied is being attacked by an idiot, and verbally is being attacked by his village. If you have the power to respond in words such that your response carries weight with your society, you are probably not being bullied to begin with. Yet, your only option is to either accept the rejection and ignore it or escalate the conflict into violence if you feel that you are capable of that.

The escalation into violence will probably happen with any person given a long enough period of harrassment, and then suddenly you're the bad guy and the laws and rules meant to protect you are now protecting your tormentors. Most likely for most kids being bullied, the social system tormenting them is their only allowed social system outside of the home. Whatever recourse you seek, you still have to stay with these same people and interact with them until either you move or they move. This is not so in the adult world where if you use the legal system to defend yourself, you typically choose not to interact with the same people ever again if at all possible. Kids do not have that choice.

I was harrassed until end of 6th grade, at which point I had enough and made it very clear that any verbal attacks on my person will result in violent reactions, consequences be damned. Expressing an attitude of "I might get expelled, but your eye won't grow back" did wonders to make my life a lot more peaceful. This was in Russia - when I moved to the US and it started all over again, but paranoia about various zero tolerance policies made me pretty much suck it up and pretend to ignore everything.

groman
12-06-2006, 05:44 AM
Doh! It's spelled "harassment" isn't it?

Kalhoun
12-06-2006, 07:36 AM
I'm not saying that cyberbullying doesn't exist, but in the examples you use it wouldn't be that hard to block out a bully.

On IMs like MSN Messenger, for example, the only people who can send you messages are the ones you've allowed on your list... no one is forced to be on systems where anyone is able to message them. And it doesn't matter how often a bully changes their email if they don't know yours.

The problem is that most kids DON'T have the sense to just avoid doing things that make them easy targets.
The problem is that even if you do block them, they're still ripping their target behind their back. The reputation is still being trashed, the accusations are still being made, and opinions of that person are being influenced. In some cases, that might not be all that damaging, but if you picture a kid having to walk through the halls at school after everyone has read the trash, you can see where blocking would have no effect on easing the person's pain.

Lobelia Overhill
12-06-2006, 03:41 PM
I am kind of curious, one person's lying in a chat room inspired a "we hate Lobelia" message board? What sort of forum were you involved with that set this off?


A general chat one that I was the Admin of. One of the members started flaming 'the only gay on the board' (who has a major chip/shoulder interface) I told him off, and he started sending me these PMs that were miles long rambling on about how I'm an imbecile and people like him shouldn't have to put up with people like me telling him what he could say to people blah blah blah. He sent me the same message 6 times, just rephrasing it slightly each time. I deactivated his account, he went into a chatroom that people on the board use and said something (no one will tell me what he said tho') people came onto the board and started flaming me ("fuck you you bitch!" "who the fuck do you think you are?" etc) and PMing me ("I hate you, I'm never posting here again") about 10 people said they were quitting, so I deleted their accounts, and all hell broke loose... more flaming, more nasty PMs, strings of emails each more abusive than the other.

Someone set up an 'alternate' board where they could speak freely without fear of incurring the wrath of Lobelia who's clearly insane and wants locking up, so they set about saying whatever they wanted about me. One person said something and someone backed them up and it snowballed to the point where 100+ people are now on that board and having a jolly old time. It's been 'suggested' to people who didn't sign up there that if they don't they'll be ostracised, but should they decide to join then "all will be forgiven" < actual quote

I heard months later that 'everyone' hated the 'only gay on the board' and were glad someone had had a go at her. She was automatically banned from joining the 'freedom of speech' board.

adults eh? kuh :rolleyes:

RickJay
12-08-2006, 11:32 PM
Then there is Olivia Gardner (http://www.marinij.com/ci_3643735) who has (or had) an internet hate page dedicated to her, all because she suffered an epileptic seizure at school one day.
The linked article does not say that; it claims Miss Gardner had pages dedicated to "Hating her," and it also said she had epilepsy, but did not say the first was the result of the latter.

Patty O'Furniture
12-09-2006, 08:22 AM
I saw a special on MSNBC about a month ago, which is where I first learned Ryan and Olivia's names. The connection was made on that program.

Lust4Life
12-09-2006, 12:41 PM
Cyberbullying isn't just confined to kids. Some adults here on the SDMB routinely engage in this also. There is a certain web site (The Site Which Must Not Be Named) created by some anonymous dopers that is dedicated to talking vicious trash about other dopers.

The kids at least have somewhat of an excuse - they're kids. The hateful adults bashing fellow dopers, however, should be truly ashamed.

Speaking as someone who had this inflicted on myself(is it a newbie thing?are we considered easy meat?)I totally agree.

Not being aware of all the ins and outs of the very individual ettiquette of S.D.M.B I did not at first respond to the somewhat puerile abuse heaped upon me by the "little Hitlers" very aggressively in case I was breaking yet another M.B. custom.


I suspect like most forms of bullying it had its origins in the self esteem(or lack of it to be more accurate)of the bullys .


That said heartfelt thanks to the many posters who genuinly put themselves out to help me .(I did post some pretty appalling stuff and no doubt will again :) )

Lust4Life
12-09-2006, 01:16 PM
For many people an allegation posted on the Net no matter how untrue,holds a much greater validity then hearing the same allegation from a kid in the playground.

Anything that leads to a child suffering depression or committing suicide can not be trivialised as being less harmful then physical bullying.

Anyone who genuinly perceives bullying ofany kind as "making a mountain out of a molehill" must have led a singulary sheltered life.
Either that or are guilty of bullying themselves ,some more then others ,which they attempt to brush under the carpet as "just a bit of fun that the victim shouldn't have taken so seriously".


In British state schools children are killed every year by other children as a result of Internet or other rumours.

Lobelia Overhill
12-10-2006, 07:16 AM
For many people an allegation posted on the Net no matter how untrue,holds a much greater validity then hearing the same allegation from a kid in the playground.

Aren't there supposed to be new [European] Laws about posting "defamatory" remarks about people online? I keep being told there are but can't find any info.

Anyone who genuinely perceives bullying of any kind as "making a mountain out of a molehill" must have led a singularly sheltered life.

And how

Shalmanese
12-10-2006, 04:10 PM
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned what is probably the most famous case of internet bullying, Star Wars Kid, which sent the kid into a mental institution.

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