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ShibbOleth
01-15-2007, 09:15 AM
There must be a thread on this somewhere, but I didn't find it, so apologies if this is a duplicate. Just want to see who is getting the Burning Crusade upgrade for WoW, what your expectations are for it, if you'll roll new characters, etc.

I've not pre-ordered, but will probably see if I can find a copy at lunch tomorrow. I'll probably create some sort of Dranaei (sp?) character just because, but am more interested to see how my 60 mage can advance.

AmericanMaid
01-15-2007, 09:19 AM
My brother pre-ordered the game for me. I'm planning on making 2 Blood Elves and 1 Dranai (probably a Shaman). I might delete some of my other low level alts. Has anyone else noticed the new world visible through the portal on the log-on screen?

Biggirl
01-15-2007, 09:22 AM
I've got a name picked out for my Blood Elf-- Nakidndancin. I do not, however, have it on pre-order. I'm afraid it'll be months before I'll be able to buy it in the store.

Abe Babe
01-15-2007, 11:35 AM
I'll probably make a Blood Elf Pally. I usually get stuck healing the party, and it'd be nice to do so in heavy armor.

"Longest fight I ever seen, was a quick duel between Paladins." -- Me

Jayn_Newell
01-15-2007, 11:47 AM
I pre-ordered mine a few months ago, and I'm starting to get a bit paranoid because I know a few people in game who've had their orders confirmed already and mine hasn't been yet. I'm looking forward to the expansion though, I think Blizzard has a far better idea of what players like and don't like now than they did at launch, and I expect to enjoy the new zones. I'm also looking forward to maybe being on the top end of the levelling curve, as I didn't have the playtime to rush to 60 after the initial launch.

I'm already happy though, my server was one of the ones was was just offered free transfers and my guild pretty much jumped at the chance. We had been on one of the launch servers before--the event Tuesday must've been horrid there, and I'm sure the BC launch will be terrible as well. But here we have no queues, no continent-wide lag thanks to the world event, and less inane chatter in the general channels. Did I mention I'm really enjoying the new server?

I will be rolling a Draenei warrior when I get my copy--sorry but the BE aren't pretty, just pansy. I also have a mage and a druid (both raid toons) that I'll need to get to 70 as well. I think I'll be a bit busy next week.

DeadlyAccurate
01-15-2007, 11:47 AM
My husband and I re-installed the game Saturday night and bought two-month game cards in preparation for the xpack.

Demo
01-15-2007, 11:51 AM
I'll probably go pick it up at lunch tomorrow as well and start the install at least. I played the Beta a bit(leveled a BELF 'lock to 20 and took my tauren hunter from 60 to 62) and I really enjoyed the new areas and quests. I'm just really, really looking forward to some level 60 spells on my mains like mass dispel for my priest and distracting shot for my hunter. I also have a 60 mage I stopped playing a year or so ago that I might pick back up.

Basandre
01-15-2007, 11:56 AM
Well, I have a 60 resto druid that will need to get to 70 (I *love* healing as a druid - I healed in a Baron group the other day and the fight ended with everyone above 70% health). I've also got a paladin and a warlock in their early 40s that I enjoy playing. But I will have to give in and make a Dranei. Maybe a mage - I've started several and haven't really stuck with them as I mostly like characters that can heal. But I definitely want to make a jewelcrafter, and I might as well get a racial bonus for it, right? Plus, Dranei do get that racial ability to heal. Even if it isn't much, it's something.

ShibbOleth
01-15-2007, 12:19 PM
Stopped by Game Stop at lunch today and ask about availability. The guy reco'd I preorder, since what they had available was going quickly. I went ahead and prepaid and will pick up tomorrow at lunch. They already have them in stock, but can't officially sell/disperse until midnight. No way I am going out at midnight just to bring it back and install and stay up all night. Tomorrow after work is fine for me. I'll probably roll up a Dranei shaman to see what that's like. Any name suggestions? My three main characters right now are Magestic, a mage, Leif, a druid, and Shibboleth, a rogue. What kinds of punny names can you think of?

As a side question, are Dranei and Blood Elves purely a Blizzard creation or is the some fantasy back story to these that I am missing?

Ethilrist
01-15-2007, 12:23 PM
Anybody know if you have to install this in order to play, or do the patches released in the last few weeks allow people to play without it, like the pre-release patches in Battlefield 1942?

Jayn_Newell
01-15-2007, 12:30 PM
You're going to have to install it. (http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=67248135&sid=1)

Anamorphic
01-15-2007, 12:41 PM
You're going to have to install it. (http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=67248135&sid=1)
Just to be clear, you won't need the expansion installed to continue to play the old content, but you won't have access to the new Burning Crusade content without it.

Ethilrist
01-15-2007, 12:43 PM
Just to be clear, you won't need the expansion installed to continue to play the old content, but you won't have access to the new Burning Crusade content without it.
That's what I meant--without installing, I will be able to play on Wednesday the same way I played last night, except, of course, for long waits, server crashes due to overloading, bugs in the new content, and draeni & blood elves running everywhere.

Time to start a dwarven hunter, methinks.

Aw, who am I kidding? I'm buying it.

Taters
01-15-2007, 01:10 PM
My husband plans on picking up two copies tomorrow.

I'd like to transfer our 59 lvl pally and 'lock over, but we'll probably create new characters. I'm not sure what yet.

I doubt that my husband will actually find two copies tomorrow, but he told me he'll even drive to Tacoma to get find them. We'll see.

Darwin's Finch
01-15-2007, 01:24 PM
My copy shipped today, so I should have it by Wednesday. I probably won't roll up a new character immediately (the starting areas for the new races are going to be pretty crowded at first); instead, I'll work on levelling my druid (60), rogue (60) and maybe warlock (44).

If I do make a new toon, it'll be a Blood Elf of undetermed class. I don't care to play Alliance-side.

Taters
01-15-2007, 01:54 PM
Not to hijack this thread, but why is there such hate for the Alliance side?

I've played both sides now, and frankly, each can be annoying. For instance, Hillsbrad area has become practically unplayable due to high level alliance ganking Horde trying to quest there. Some nights, you can't even leave Tarren Mills. As an undead toon on that server, I get highly annoyed.

However, that being said, I've been ganked by Horde as an Alliance player. So, it cuts both ways.

Okay, end of hijack. Sorry about that.

All the same, I'm looking forward to the expansion.

Biggirl
01-15-2007, 02:09 PM
Just guessing from talking to everyone I know who WoWs, there are gonna be more Blood Elves than you can shake Wirt's Third Leg at. That would make it harder for a player like me who likes to do everything alone. Every mob will be dead and all resources depleted. Maybe it will be good that I won't get my copy right away.


Ha! Who'm I kidding. My son just now walked out the door to see if he can still pre-order it from Gamestop.

Gary Robson
01-15-2007, 02:20 PM
I'd like to transfer our 59 lvl pally and 'lock over, but we'll probably create new characters.No need to transfer anything. The expansion just adds new capabilities and zones to the existing realms. Those with the expansion and those without the expansion will still be able to visit Stormwind/Undercity together, do raids and dungeons together, and so forth. It's just that the ones without the expansion can't go to Outland, create a Blood Elf, and so on.

The expansions shouldn't be too hard to find. My store sells them, and I was able to up my order just a few days ago. Any store that plans ahead adequately should have plenty.

I'm pretty ticked at Blizzard, though. My store is primarily a bookstore, and I was planning a midnight release party, much as we did for Harry Potter. Unfortunately, Blizzard is only making the BC expansions available today for a select few chains (Gamestop, Best Buy, Fry's Electronics) to put out at midnight. I get mine sometime tomorrow when FedEx arrives. Twits.

My son-in-law has a 60 mage and he was planning on selling ports to the new main city starting as soon after midnight as he could get there. He's bummed that he either has to wait until I get my FedEx shipment or drive an hour to the nearest Best Buy at midnight.

ShibbOleth
01-15-2007, 03:36 PM
My son-in-law has a 60 mage and he was planning on selling ports to the new main city starting as soon after midnight as he could get there. He's bummed that he either has to wait until I get my FedEx shipment or drive an hour to the nearest Best Buy at midnight.

My main is a 60 mage, and I've not taken the last port training, assuming I could get it at 60 for the new city. I'd frankly forgotten about that by now, and hadn't thought of going mercenary and making a lot of money off of it. Hmm.

Biggirl
01-15-2007, 04:02 PM
Update-- because I'm sure you are all waiting with bated breath. . . Gamestop told my son to come back at midnight. They believe there will be enough to go around for everyone.

Geek Mecha
01-15-2007, 04:12 PM
I've preordered it, but I have no plans to start a new character right away. I've already played shaman and paladin, and there's no way in hell I'm throwing myself into any of the lowbie areas for the next month or two.

For now, I plan to take advantage of the impending demand for leather and jewelcrafting items, and enjoy the emptier higher-level zones.

Revenant Threshold
01-15-2007, 04:17 PM
Preordered my copy.

I think i'll make up a Dranei, but i'm not sure what class. My main's a rogue, so i'm tempted by the lure of big shiny armour and big shiny weapons.

Spidey
01-15-2007, 08:15 PM
I preordered BC months ago when I bought the game, but now Im finding it a bit too expensive to play, given that I have no income. Does anyone think it would be worth it for me to buy my pre-ordered copy and resell it, a la PS3? Heck if it would only make me a few extra bucks then I'd just sell it at retail to any toronto doper who couldnt find a copy.

SenorBeef
01-15-2007, 10:01 PM
Not to hijack this thread, but why is there such hate for the Alliance side?



As a whole, on average, the alliance side are much worse players in PVP. They win BGs maybe 20% of the time, tops, as a pub group.

Possibly dumber and less mature, although there is barrens chat as a counter-example.

Theories as to why this is is that the alliance are sort of like the default good guys that players associate themselves with, and new players will start there. But also because the alliance races are much more attractive.

The Blood Elves may have been designed to spread out the immaturity and stupidity. "OMG I CAN MAKE A FEMALE BLOOD ELF PALADIN AND DANCE NAKED ON MAILBOXES OMG THAT IS SO CREATIVE!!!"

ShibbOleth
01-15-2007, 10:12 PM
Theories as to why this is is that the alliance are sort of like the default good guys that players associate themselves with, and new players will start there. But also because the alliance races are much more attractive.


My theory is that the Horde (also) draws a lot of the immature 13-25 crowd, that have nothing better to do than prove how totally awesome they are and have plenty of time to twink up characters. They're attracted to the more evil side. The alliance gets the more dimwitted side of that demographic.

Jayn_Newell
01-15-2007, 10:25 PM
The Blood Elves may have been designed to spread out the immaturity and stupidity. "OMG I CAN MAKE A FEMALE BLOOD ELF PALADIN AND DANCE NAKED ON MAILBOXES OMG THAT IS SO CREATIVE!!!"

I'm fairly sure that is the reason they were added to the Horde side (well, actually to spread out the faction balances, which is pretty bad on some servers--the stupidity is already fairly even).

In my experience (I also play both sides of the fence), Horde players tend to have a superiority complex. They want to feel like they're better than someone else. So you get the 'pallies are gay' and 'Alliance are all 12-year-old nubs who rolled NE to watch them strip' jokes. Even in my own guild, which is dual-sided, I can see this division happening. Horde want to prove they're better than Alliance. Alliance pretty much ignore Horde, unless we're in the mood to abuse some goblins. I don't hear nearly as much bad-mouthing towards the Horde from the Alliance (hardly any at all, really) as I do going in the other direction. I just find the Horde is a bit coarser in all respects than Alliance.

SenorBeef
01-15-2007, 10:28 PM
Ugh, I told myself I'd never be one of those geeks who were lining up at the release for anything, but I'm gonna be out in the middle of the night anyway, and if I wait till tomorrow, they might all be sold out, so I guess I'll do it. I won't wait in line, I'll just show up at midnight and hope they have some copies.

I called the closest gamestop and he said he couldn't guarantee that they'd have more than the pre-orders. So, if I can't get it there, would somewhere like a 24 hour walmart actually go out and stock it at midnight, or what?

jayjay
01-15-2007, 11:00 PM
supervenusfreak pre-ordered from Amazon for me as part of my Christmas gifts. I expect it sometime this week, but I'm happy to be patient. Tomorrow and Wednesday are going to be a ZOO! Expect massive server lag and huge competition for starter area mobs and Outlands content. There are probably thousands of 60s sitting in the Blasted Lands right now resting up for midnight...

I pared my character lists on my 2 active servers (one server Horde, one server Alliance) down to 2 toons on each. I'm going to make one toon of each new race on their respective servers. Maybe a draenei shaman and a Belf paladin.

SenorBeef
01-15-2007, 11:17 PM
About 90% of the Draeni you see will be shaman, and 90% of the Blood Elves will be Paladins. There will be an absolute flood of them - to the point where new servers will probably have a hard time getting a good class mix on groups.

RickJay
01-15-2007, 11:26 PM
Sadly, my sister decided to get married this week, thereby delaying my BC fun.

And yeah, don't roll a Draenei or a Blood Elf this week, or this month, 'cause every l33t haxx0r teenager's gonna be doing the same thing. I've been trying to explain to my guild why rolling Draenei shamans is gonna be a supply-side catastrophe, but they seem determined to figure it out through hard experience.

Koldanar
01-16-2007, 12:42 AM
Holy crap, there was one store by me in the HBG area doing the midnight opening...several hundreds showed up. HUNDREDS. I've never seen more than 20-30 for a game release (consoles yes, games??). Just, well, wow.

Nava
01-16-2007, 02:14 AM
You bet I'm getting it, it should be in the mail as soon as Amazon UK gets the box with my name on it. I play in English, so the copy for BC had to be enEN as well.

I'm making a Draenei female priestess (jeweler) and a Draenei male warrior (weaponsmith). Between those two, the two engineers and the armorsmith I think I should be able to start causing a metal depletion any time now...

Yes, I suffer from altitis, how did you figure?

SenorBeef
01-16-2007, 03:43 AM
Well, that sucked.

I went to gamestop, cause I called them and they said they'd be open at midnight. I asked about getting a copy without a preorder, and he said that he couldn't guarantee anything but pre-orders. So I go, and it turns out that they won't even take anyone who doesn't have a pre-order. It would be nice if the guy on the phone would've told me that.

But... there was a walmart right there, and I still had 15 minutes before midnight, so I head over. There are about 15 people in line. Cool - Walmart should get a ton of copies, right? Wait 15 minutes, they sell their *2* ... 2 copies, and everyone leaves.

Why the hell even bother to ship 2 copies? And it wasn't just leftovers from preorders, since Walmart doesn't take those.

So, I head home. I stop by the walmart near where I live, just in case, about 40 minutes after midnight, and the guy says he *just* sold out the last of his 7 copies. On the way out, I saw some kids with it. Sigh.

If that idiot at gamestop had told me, on the phone, that I wouldn't have been able to get one, I'd have gone to the Walmart right here, and I would've gotten a copy. Thanks, dude.

Oh well. The only reason I went is because I was going to be out anyway, and I figured if I waited, everywhere might be out of stock. Hopefully someone gets another shipment tomorrow. If I have to wait a day or two, no big deal. A week, that would be annoying. I guess I should've preordered, but I didn't expect them to be so scarce.

There were about 50 people with pre-orders at gamestop. That was weird to me. I went to try to get a copy before they sold out, but these people were guaranteed a copy... and just couldn't wait a few hours without their warcrack expansion, I guess. There were some kids in line saying "fucking gay this" and "you fag!" and stuff. And I said to the people next to me: "Check it out - real life Barrens chat."

aruvqan
01-16-2007, 06:32 AM
My main is a 60 mage, and I've not taken the last port training, assuming I could get it at 60 for the new city. I'd frankly forgotten about that by now, and hadn't thought of going mercenary and making a lot of money off of it. Hmm.

Sorry, for blood elves, there is a port thingy in UC that goes right to the BE city. No need for cash

Athena
01-16-2007, 06:57 AM
Well, I got up this morning to a "shipping notice" from Amazon dated yesterday, so it will be arriving today (oooh yes, I love me my Amazon Prime). That's pretty good for Amazon; previous pre-orders I've done through them had resulted in me canceling the order and buying it from Target because Amazon sat on it so long.

Nava
01-16-2007, 07:00 AM
I'm supposed to get it before the weekend. Would it look bad if I start dancing in the factory's hallways? I promise I won't go "squee!", I'll just jig.

Ethilrist
01-16-2007, 08:35 AM
I'm supposed to get it before the weekend. Would it look bad if I start dancing in the factory's hallways? I promise I won't go "squee!", I'll just jig.
A Spanish lady doing a jig in Switzerland... now there is something I have not seen...

ArrMatey!
01-16-2007, 09:35 AM
So, a brief question about the new races... I don't recall where, but I was reading a brief description of the many-and-varied talents the new elven race will be receiving, and I'm concerned.
There's a point in many games where 'power-creep' rears up, and I'm worried this may be it. Undead can breathe underwater longer. Orcs have (IIRC) more damage from pets. The new elves get mana burn and a few other abilities? Seems a bit unbalanced.
What I'm concerned about is the thought that this may start a trend of a 'need' for one of the new races in groups just to keep 'on top of' things. I know, I know- most guilds are just fine with whatever they have, but... Really... Which would you rather have in your group? A guy that can hold his breath, or a guy that can mana burn?
Please re-assure me that, should I -not- run out and buy the expansion (I just can't afford to do so), I'm not going to feel like I've been second-class-citizened?

(Postscript- I single out the elves because I've heard nothing of the abilities of the new alliance race. In fact, I almost always play alliance...)

Biggirl
01-16-2007, 10:13 AM
I'll tell you what-- either everybody on my server thinks it's update time or they're all making new characters because there is nobody on Stranglethorne Vale or Westfall or Ratchet. Even Orgimmar is deserted.

Since the boy did not go at midnight to get BC, I'll just mine.

Biggirl
01-16-2007, 10:15 AM
Let me add that when I logged on my server was "Full".

Darwin's Finch
01-16-2007, 11:11 AM
What I'm concerned about is the thought that this may start a trend of a 'need' for one of the new races in groups just to keep 'on top of' things. I know, I know- most guilds are just fine with whatever they have, but... Really... Which would you rather have in your group? A guy that can hold his breath, or a guy that can mana burn?

I wouldn't worry about that. Each race has more abilities than those you listed. Undead also have Will of the Forsaken, which gives temporary immunity to fear, as well as Cannibalism which lets them "consume" fallen humanoids to regain health. Orcs have innate stun resistance (not a bad thing for your Main Tank to have...), Blood Fury, and bonuses with axes. Tauren have Warstomp, greater health (also not a bad thing for your Main Tank to have...) and +15 to Herbalism skill. Trolls have...well, not so much. Compared to the whole list, Blood Elf racial abilites aren't likely to be in greater demand than any others. Blood Elves will, however, be in demand because they are the only race that can be Paladins, Horde-side.

For the most part, though, racial abilities play a very minor role compared to class abilities. Many of Horde's racials are more useful in PvP than in PvE (whereas Alliance racials tend to be the opposite).

mrklutz
01-16-2007, 11:22 AM
I just strolled over to Target and picked up a couple copies (one for me, one for my GF). The supply at the downtown store was pretty good.

Of course, I doubt I'll be able to play much tonight -- the login queue on Thunderhorn is going to be insane, I'm sure. It's been as many as 700 people leading up to the expansion, so I can only imagine what tonight's will be.

Ethilrist
01-16-2007, 11:41 AM
I just picked one up at the Target across from work. They still had five copies left.

I wouldn't worry too much about creating a must-have race--Blizzard's been pretty good about not breaking existing games with overpowering add-ons (one reason why they never unlocked the Barbarian in Diablo I... not officially, anyway...). The extra classes in D2, the new units in Starcraft (Bloodwar), etc., didn't break the game, in my experience.

SenorBeef
01-16-2007, 12:14 PM
Thanks for reminding me about target. They apparently had over 100 boxes.

So, Walmart 2 and 7.. target 100. Okay, whatever.

But had I known that, I'd have just gotten it today. I didn't have to get it right at the first possible moment, I just didn't want to hear "sorry, the next batch won't be due for a week"

ShibbOleth
01-16-2007, 12:22 PM
Grabbed Chic-fil-a and the expansion pack at lunch. Will attempt to install and maybe log on later tonight. La Woot!

fluiddruid
01-16-2007, 01:04 PM
I'll probably make a new character later, but after work I'm heading through the Dark Portal right away. I stuck my character there last night, but was too lazy to stay up for the midnight sale, so I'm going to grab it today (it's reserved).

Anyone on Turalyon up for some Hellfire Citadel instance action? Alliance, of course. ;)

SenorBeef
01-16-2007, 01:26 PM
I was talking to a guy who played the beta, and he said the new instances (or raids? I didn't talk to him for too long) use some sort of token system. Instead of having random stuff drop (maybe it does in addition), tokens drop, that everyone can roll for, and then turn in for gear.

As it is, I've barely raided, because the idea of doing the same thing over and over and over again in the hopes that a few particular items might drop that particular time isn't my thing. So many times an item for a class we didn't have in our group would drop, or something we already had, and it was totally useless, so it got sharded. On many runs, no one gets any new gear, because it's all so random.

Tokens would make it so much better though - everyone would need them equally and benefit from them equally. You would no longer have useless gear just to be destroyed. You could systematically work towards a goal instead of running it over and over and over and hoping that you got lucky on the random chances. I'm really hoping they implemented something like this, and did it well.

thursday next
01-16-2007, 01:38 PM
I peer pressured my sweetie into buying a copy. He starting playing at Christmas (he needed an accessory to go with his new toy). I don’t play, but I like talking to him about it and I’ll sometimes take a break from my games to watch him play.

Yesterday he went to GameStop and preordered a copy. The munchkins in the store waiting for the roll out were shocked when he said he’d pick up his copy later in the week, maybe Thursday. He wasn’t going there at midnight? He wasn’t going there as soon as he could on Tuesday? They were so cute in their disbelief. I’m peer pressuring him again to go pick it up today after work.

I hope that everyone is enjoying playing!

Taters
01-16-2007, 01:48 PM
My hubby was going to pick up two copies today, but our nephew picked up two copies for us last night. We were sort of laughing at him for going to stand in line for the midnight thing, but then he called us and told us he had picked up two copies for us. Saved my husband a lot of running around, so it was much appreciated.

Hubby picked up the copies from nephew this morning, and I am sure, is installing as I type this. I, unfortunately, am at work, so I'll have to wait until tonight.

It will be interesting to see how it will really be.

fluiddruid
01-16-2007, 03:40 PM
I was talking to a guy who played the beta, and he said the new instances (or raids? I didn't talk to him for too long) use some sort of token system. Instead of having random stuff drop (maybe it does in addition), tokens drop, that everyone can roll for, and then turn in for gear.Yep, that's my understanding - not for basic instances (which will still drop blues - just much, much better blues) but for the Tier 4 and 5 sets. I am very happy about this - I never did see the Felheart bracers nor belt drop, and spent 250G for the damn belt. (I have 5 pieces of the set - at least the robes I had seen, just lost the roll on to an outside-of-guild PUGger.

As it is, I've barely raided, because the idea of doing the same thing over and over and over again in the hopes that a few particular items might drop that particular time isn't my thing. So many times an item for a class we didn't have in our group would drop, or something we already had, and it was totally useless, so it got sharded. On many runs, no one gets any new gear, because it's all so random.That's supposed to improve. I really never intended to get into raiding, but out of curiousity, I joined a Molten Core PUG, then another, then another until finally they recruited me. It's great fun to play with a large group, chat on Vent, get drops for your friends... every time someone got a cherished item is fun when you're all one big family.

If I had to guess, there will still be limited random drops - for example, most sets don't cover all slots (like Neck, both rings, both trinkets, and Cloak slots). From what I understand, though, the best of the gems for socketables will be craftable and able to be traded along to others, so hopefully I'll get most of those from the guild. There is a certain thrill in seeing cool items drop so I doubt it'll be gone completely. Still, it was agonizing seeing Felheart Gloves and Giantstalker Belt drop again and again after all the warlocks/hunters had them, but yet other classes still had many people waiting.

Infovore
01-16-2007, 03:53 PM
The spouse picked up our copies today--he snagged me a Collector's Edition! For retail (minus employee discount, even!) Just walked right into the Apple Company Store and grabbed the last one off the shelf. This is after I'd paid over retail to buy one on Ebay, but that one won't be here until Thursday, so now I can sell it and recoup my expenditure. I am a happy bunny. I know I'm a dork, but I wanted that Nether Whelp. :)

What I'd like to know, though, is has anyone loaded it yet? How long does it take? If it's going to be another marathon patch-download session like the first time or the 2.0 patch, both of which took ~3 hours on our DSL connection, I'd like to know in advance so I can set aside some non-playing time to do it, rather than being surprised when I just want to play.

Just popped in for about 1 minute to check the AH and saw my first Dranei shaman, standing right there by the mailbox. And so it begins. :)

fluiddruid
01-16-2007, 04:35 PM
If you've already gotten the patches as of last night, you won't need another patch. They released the BC patch previously, and a few other fixes since then. You'll just need to visit the worldofwarcraft.com website, register your account with the Burning Crusade key, then install the CD, from what I understand.

Jayn_Newell
01-16-2007, 05:16 PM
If you've already gotten the patches as of last night, you won't need another patch. They released the BC patch previously, and a few other fixes since then. You'll just need to visit the worldofwarcraft.com website, register your account with the Burning Crusade key, then install the CD, from what I understand.

You will have to reinstall the ones after 2.0.0, however if you haven't deleted them you won't have to re-download them, just repatch. The one to 2.0.3 is the big one (159 megs), the one to 2.0.5 is tiny by comparison, however 2.0.4 was missing for both me and a friend and we had to re-download the patches after .3. Neither of us was too happy as the tracker wasn't working well, I'm behind a school firewall (the downloader works, but barely--somehow I still got it first), and I couldn't find another download.

When you get to the Outlands, look up. The sky is gorgeous--and there's also some really, really tall mobs to watch out for.

ShibbOleth
01-16-2007, 10:55 PM
Okay, I think it's worth it. A bit heavy on use right now, but having a blast in Hellfire Peninsula. Got to fly and drop bombs! And very nice quest rewards. I got home a little before 7 pm, started loading, most was finished by the time I had to leave to take my daughter to soccer practice. My son finished the install (he's eight years old) and had a Blood Elf mage at level 4 by the time I got home from soccer before 9 pm.

Grabbed 90,000 XP in the new area, between 9 pm and just after 11:30.

ShibbOleth
01-16-2007, 10:57 PM
When you get to the Outlands, look up. The sky is gorgeous--and there's also some really, really tall mobs to watch out for.

Great moons, and the Fel Reaver was huge, freaky and ?? level. Yikes!

Weirddave
01-17-2007, 03:59 AM
I played my 60 mage about 1/4 of the way to 61. The first quest I did gave me a wand that was better than the wand I've been carrying for about a year, and another quest shortly thereafter netted me a green necklace that was pretty much on par with the epic necklace I had from before BC. :eek: Oh yea, this is gonna be good! :D

Nava
01-17-2007, 04:06 AM
My level 51 rogue may be able to finish Master of the Arena :) I've been able to grab arena chests that had been sitting there for over one hour! Gee, wonder where everybody who didn't have to wait for the mail went...

She's getting to invite all her guildie's new alts into the guild, too 8)

SenorBeef
01-17-2007, 05:29 AM
Not a big fan of the great items. There will be an enormous item gap at around level 58, where pre-58 stuff sucks and post-58 stuff rocks. A lot of the gear people worked so hard to get will be replaced as rewards for easy quests or drops from easy mobs. I would've prefered a more gradual increase in the quality of items. I've already replaced both of my weapons just to quest rewards. Not a huge upgrade, but an upgrade.

I played my first new instance - the citadel ramparts. I have to say, I like it. Not too long, fairly densely populated but not too many fights overall. The boss fights are challenging without being exceedingly complex.

Somewhere along the lines, pre-BC, blizzard decided "if a 1.5 hour instance is pretty fun, then a 6 hour instance must be 4 times as much fun!" and I really hated that. My favorite instance was probably SFK - because it was fairly well designed, well themed, properly challenging, and most importantly, you could get the stupid thing done without spending 3+ hours.

It's especially aggravating to spend 3+ hour instances with puggers. Something always comes up. Some moron will say "sorry guys, gotta go to school" an hour and a half into WHAT HE KNEW WAS A 3 HOUR INSTANCE, and boom, you lose your healer and have just wasted the last hour and a half. Or, you might have epic confrontations of personality along the lines of:

Player 1: ur dumb!!11
Player 2: no ur a fag
player 1: no u!!!
player 2: *ninjas something and quits*

Great.

There's no benefit to having 4+ hour instances, it'd be better just to make multiple 1-2 hour ones. It seems that blizzard may have learned this lesson - but I've only run the one instance.. I just hope it's not an exception.

Nava
01-17-2007, 06:21 AM
The items sound like Area Writer Inflation.

Every area writer wants to have The Biggest Baddest Mob, The Bestest Exp/Hr Ratio, The Most MoFo Bling. Letting them get away with it actually leads to more frustration (for both players and writers) than satisfaction, in the long term. Writers who are interested in writing only The Next High-End Area will get pissed when The Nextest High-End Area gets in and turns their Biggest Baddes Mob into the Second Biggest Second Baddest Mob. Writers who are able to work on low- and mid-level areas and to ask "what kind of holes do we have in the eq database that I may fill?" instead of just trying to add an even-bigger sword don't have a problem when others pee farther.

Right now we're seeing the new eq in the new high-end areas and in the new low-end areas, but there are also a bunch of new quests around in old areas and they do fill in holes. We won't really see how much of a gap there is in a few days but it looks to me like it hasn't been done as carelessly as it may seem at first sight. After all, people focus on the spectacular stuff: I haven't seen anybody remark on the new greys :D

Does anybody know if tradeskills will go above 300? My herb is at 300 and she's recently run into herbs she had problems picking, I don't know if they existed before (probably did and I just hadn't noticed them).




Nava, 8 years areawriter and editor in a mud who left when area inflation became the norm.

Jayn_Newell
01-17-2007, 06:56 AM
Nava, tradeskills now go to 375. There are Grandmaster trainers at Thrallmar and Honor Hold for most professions.

Nava
01-17-2007, 07:46 AM
Thank you :)

OOOOOOOH! Bigger bullets! *Nava restrains her dwarven hunter with great effort*

Bigger BOOM! *the dwarven paladin manages to escape, though*

Dang, them characters do take a life of their own after a while, uh?

ShibbOleth
01-17-2007, 08:03 AM
I'm not sure that the inflation is writer motivated. Could be, but Blizzard seems to have a better handle on their folks than that. I think it's more likely a marketing/sales thing. Last night I was linking some of the new stuff to my guild chat and getting lots of "oohs and aahs". You can bet the folks that don't yet have the expansion pack were licking their chops. This will drive sales.

Shibb "Always follow the money" Oleth

DeadlyAccurate
01-17-2007, 08:20 AM
I made a new dranei male hunter on Shandris last night. My husband rolled a female warrior. Since the server was new, it wasn't too heavily populated, but there was still some necessary spawn-camping, especially to kill those walking plants. The new mobs in that area look great.

I also got into Medivh and re-specced my level 60 NE hunter. Before I go anywhere with her, I need to re-learn how to play a hunter of that level. I still need to r-spec all my other characters.

ShibbOleth
01-17-2007, 08:25 AM
If you've already gotten the patches as of last night, you won't need another patch. They released the BC patch previously, and a few other fixes since then. You'll just need to visit the worldofwarcraft.com website, register your account with the Burning Crusade key, then install the CD, from what I understand.

They're taking down all or most of the servers this morning to deal with capacity issues, as of 5 am Pacific time. I expect they should be up by most of our afternoon/evenings. 'Cept maybe Nava.

SenorBeef
01-17-2007, 08:32 AM
. After all, people focus on the spectacular stuff: I haven't seen anybody remark on the new greys :D



I got a quest reward for a simple "go kill 20 of these" quests that was better than the best crafted dagger. It's not just high end stuff, but the basic stuff you get from common drops.

SenorBeef
01-17-2007, 08:34 AM
Oh, and pet theory:

I was thinking... they have to design these zones so that they're playable by people who just hit level 60, and also by people who've put in 10 hours a day for months at level 60 and are completely decked out. A hard challenge.

A possible solution? Give everyone pretty good gear, so there's a smaller gap.

Ethilrist
01-17-2007, 08:42 AM
I just started playing this fall, so I don't have any 60's to go romping in the Outlands. I created a Draeni shaman on my Alliance server and a Blood Elf Paladin on my Horde server. It was amusingly crowded... on the Horde server, there's an early quest to go kill 6 of these things, 2 of those things, and bring me this guy's head. This guy is up at the top of a tower; I mow my way through a few of the first kind of things and head up to the top to see what the big bad's like... and there are about 50 Blood Elf paladins up there, twiddling their thumbs and waiting for him to show up so somebody can gack him.

I think I'll abandon that quest. :rolleyes:

Then I went out into the big bad world and saw much cool stuff.

Hey, it said our crafters would be able to make socketed items now... is that a level-dependent thing, or are there specific trainers who can teach us that stuff?

ShibbOleth
01-17-2007, 08:43 AM
A possible solution? Give everyone pretty good gear, so there's a smaller gap.


Didja notice every squishy had their pimp hat on?

Lissa
01-17-2007, 09:51 AM
I've been trying to explain to my guild why rolling Draenei shamans is gonna be a supply-side catastrophe, but they seem determined to figure it out through hard experience.

I've been trying to explain the same to my guild, re: jewelcrafting. I've been trying to convince them not to rush out to learn the new trade but to wait until the inevitable "market crash." Jewels are going to be flooding the market-- now's the time just to sit back and buy up the cheap goods and sell off all of those gems you've been hoarding in the bank.

fluiddruid
01-17-2007, 10:02 AM
Oh yeah. I waited a day to let people get a little taste of the game, and for many of the stockpilers' supplies to wane. (Plus I wanted to play, not man the AH.) All my gems go up on AH tonight before people get clever and start farming.

Sadly, I did pay a high price (well ... for runecloth) for stacks of Runecloth as I really want to start using my new cloth for bandages; I didn't anticipate it would take so long to be able to use them.

I figure the equipment situation is intended to be an equalizer - people wouldn't be motivated if all the Tier 3 folks just ran right through the expansion with their gear. The gear had to be better to put yourself on an even ground.

I can't believe so many people have gone nuts. About half the 60s in my guild are already 61. As of this morning I was still halfway to 61. There are people on my server who are already 64, and I hear that someone made it to 70 in 28 hours (through the WoW forums).

BTW, Nagrand is BEAUTIFUL. So is the view approaching Shattrath City. A guildie took me on a mounted tour of some of the new zones and they are quite lovely. Even the swamp has a haunting, eerie beauty.

mrklutz
01-17-2007, 11:46 AM
Haven't created a character with the new races yet -- I prefer to wait until the frenzy dies down a bit and I can actually do the newbie quests. But I thought I'd pop over and check out the Exodar. It's always fun to see the graphics in a new expansion. Beautiful city, but I was there about 2 minutes before the zone crashed. My hunter ended up stranded there for the rest of the night. I'm hoping the rolling restarts will help a bit, but it seems traffic is going to be just insane for a while.

Ethilrist
01-17-2007, 11:58 AM
Oh, yeah... Copper bars were selling for 2 gold per stack of 20. Thank you, jewelcrafters! My dwarven paladin loves you!

jayjay
01-17-2007, 02:21 PM
Oh, yeah... Copper bars were selling for 2 gold per stack of 20. Thank you, jewelcrafters! My dwarven paladin loves you!

Ooh...something to do for my gnomey girl tonight. $$$ (Still haven't got my Amazon pre-order yet...)

Scupper
01-17-2007, 04:47 PM
Played last night for several hours. Some observations:


Drops in Outland are INSANE. I replaced my leggings twice and got a new neck item. The first upgrade (the one I replaced) was an "of the Eagle" pants that had +37 stamina. It had a minimum level of 57.
Blizz has apparently added code that increases the spawn rate based on how many players are in the area.
Expansion areas are uniformly fantastic-looking.
One of the beginning quests (for horde) in Thrallmar is very very easy and has a cloth leg armor reward that is better than any non-raid drop in pre-BC WoW.


I'm on a PvP server (Blackwing Lair) and noticed a strange social phenomenon. For a while, Horde and Alliance were running around in the same area near Thrallmar, and only rarely attacking one another. As time passed and more and more people arrived, it got to be quite a party.

The more people who came, the faster the mobs would spawn, to the point that mobs would spawn the instant that another mob was killed from the same spawn point.

And then, I guess, somebody remembered we were on a PvP server, and all of a sudden it was pure mayhem.

It was like Alterac Valley, but on a big, wide plain, with level 60-63 mobs popping out of the woodwork and going straight for the healers.

And THEN, the Fel Reaver strolled by. He's about as tall as Ragnaros, I'd say, and really, really likes to step on people. I don't know how tough he is, but everybody was too busy killing each other or running away to find out.

Also, there are some major bugs. For instance, even in an Inn, I can't get "rested state" or an instant log-out in Shattrath City, and neither can anyone else on my server, as far as I know.

EastCoastPearl
01-17-2007, 05:48 PM
My main is a 60 mage, and I've not taken the last port training, assuming I could get it at 60 for the new city. I'd frankly forgotten about that by now, and hadn't thought of going mercenary and making a lot of money off of it. Hmm.

Well, you'd have to wait 5 levels to start making money off it anyway, since only the teleport to Shattrath City is available at lvl 60. The group portal to Shattrath cannot be trained until lvl 65 (both are trained in Shattrath). Also, as far as I know there are no mage portals/teleports to the new starting zones for the two new races.

I sure wish I knew about the portal from UC to Silvermoon, though. That would've saved me a load of time taking my undead mage out there to learn jewelcrafting. And I guess she'll have to get off her tuckus and mine for herself again since I'll be damned if I'm paying the latest inflated prices for copper. Sheesh! :eek:

Biggirl
01-17-2007, 06:05 PM
Got it, installed it. Mulling over whether to start a new char or see what my lvl 38 warrior can do.

ShibbOleth
01-17-2007, 06:37 PM
Well, you'd have to wait 5 levels to start making money off it anyway, since only the teleport to Shattrath City is available at lvl 60. The group portal to Shattrath cannot be trained until lvl 65 (both are trained in Shattrath). Also, as far as I know there are no mage portals/teleports to the new starting zones for the two new races.


I got some sort of ports for Exodar this morning, while I was eating my breakfast. It was early, so don't recall if it was single or group. We mages have a great travel agent.

jayjay
01-17-2007, 06:54 PM
I got some sort of ports for Exodar this morning, while I was eating my breakfast. It was early, so don't recall if it was single or group. We mages have a great travel agent.

I thought mages were great travel agents...

And we got the email today...Amazon shipped this morning!

Gary Robson
01-17-2007, 09:45 PM
A few comments:

1) I've never seen Stormwind that empty on a Tuesday night before. The server was full, but everyone was off in the new zreas.

2) I still have four copies in my store (town of 2,500 people), so I think anyone who sold out just didn't plan ahead

3) I wish I could have gotten collector editions. I tried *Two months ago* to pre-order from distribution and couldn't get them

DeadlyAccurate
01-17-2007, 11:09 PM
Up to level 11 with my draenei hunter. These new quests have been great, and everything was pretty easy to get to today, no spawn-camping. Still haven't gotten around to the lvl 60+ stuff with my NE hunter.

SenorBeef
01-17-2007, 11:48 PM
I'm a little curious as to people who roll multiple characters of the same class. Why go back to that? You've had that same experience.... if you're going to start another character, why not learn a new class? I'm not dissaproving, really, just puzzled.

Critical1
01-18-2007, 03:42 AM
I'm a little curious as to people who roll multiple characters of the same class. Why go back to that? You've had that same experience.... if you're going to start another character, why not learn a new class? I'm not dissaproving, really, just puzzled.


10 or 11 slots and like 6 classes to choose from? hell my main is a rogue and my favorite bg twink is a 19 rogue. its one thing about the game thats pretty nice. with the bg's you can just lvl up a toon, gear them and then only play them when you want to spank some ally ass.

Nava
01-18-2007, 04:15 AM
I'm a little curious as to people who roll multiple characters of the same class. Why go back to that? You've had that same experience.... if you're going to start another character, why not learn a new class? I'm not dissaproving, really, just puzzled.

My paladin has a nasty social entanglement. She's in the same guild with a friend of many years and her husband. If she gets too far ahead of the other two, they whine and whine and whine. They don't like instances. Why I put up with them? Because the know where I live, that's why.

So if I want to "really play" a pally before 2010 rolls in, I'd need to make another.

Jayn_Newell
01-18-2007, 06:19 AM
10 or 11 slots and like 6 classes to choose from?

Count again. 10 slots (per server) and 9 classes.

I've know a couple main tanks who re-rolled to go Tauren. On my end, I have a lot of toons I've started and abandoned, for most classes at least two, so there's nothing left that I haven't played to at least level 20. I've been thinking of levelling a mage horde side so I can have two raiding toons there (since my gnome mage doesn't always get out as much as I'd like), but I've never gotten around to it. I've also discovered that the only role I dislike playing in groups is melee DPS, so no rogues for me, which opens up a little more room for alts.

I rolled a new warrior for a few reasons.

--I like the look of the Draenei
--I wanted to see the new zones
--I've wanted to level an Alliance tank for a while now, but levelling alts kind of sucks on an old server--no one to group with.
--My old one was only 33
--I can finally have a toon named 'Jayn' on my server (it was, surprisingly, already taken when I tried to use it on Blackhand)

I may make a BE of some sort at some point, just to see those areas (actually, that's more than likely), but I doubt I'd play one very high.

fluiddruid
01-18-2007, 09:11 AM
Has anyone else done Hellfire Citadel so far? I had the chance to do Ramparts. It was a pretty straightforward instance - a lot like a Scarlet Monastery wing, I'd say - though with some difficult pulls. A lack of a mage and an offtank made it difficult, as my lock had to do double-duty (succubus for seduction on some, felguard for offtank on others). We ended up not getting the final boss since we didn't bring FR gear and the dragon would off the tank so quickly, but, I'm not too sad as it seems the instance is mostly tanking gear.

BTW, those greens you get in Outland - if you have an enchanter, get them DE'd, the dusts and essences are selling VERY highly on the AH (as people try to buy their way to higher enchants ASAP). Gems, bags, and many other things are also selling quite well so I'm emptying my bank of all the low-level stuff.

I'm impressed that the crowding hasn't been a big deal. Even quests that have required me to kill one particular NPC haven't been too hard -- go to area, see other guy killing it, camp the area for 10 seconds, and it repops. I made level 61 last night and I still have many, many quests left to do in Hellfire Peninsula - at least 15 in my log and more I don't have the levels for (at the Cenarion Outpost).

Get thee to the temple in the NW of the zone and level up your first aid! Cloth drops abundantly from the many humanoids. I'm at skill 374 already and those bandages have really helped cut down my downtime.

DeadlyAccurate
01-18-2007, 09:15 AM
I have at least one character of every class except pally and warlock, and I don't like those. So I finally decided to start over again with the hunter, which is my favorite, hands down. I'm getting back into the groove of remembering how to play an effective hunter.

ShibbOleth
01-18-2007, 09:37 AM
There's a nice little primer on the www.worldofwarcraft.com website that discuses some base strategy on how to approach Outland. I know for me I was a bit overwhelmed with all of the choices and crowds, so some others might also find it useful.

I'm getting back into the groove of remembering how to play an effective hunter.

With your username it shouldn't be an issue. :D

Gary Robson
01-18-2007, 10:37 AM
I'm a little curious as to people who roll multiple characters of the same class. Why go back to that? You've had that same experience.... if you're going to start another character, why not learn a new class? I'm not dissaproving, really, just puzzled.Several reasons come to mind:

1) You've done it with one faction and you want to do it with another. Some of us have both Alliance *and* Horde characters!

2) You have a main on one server and you're starting up a new alt on another server to play with some friends.

3) Different specs play differently. I know you can respec, but you may want to build up all a shadow-specced priest geared one way and a holy-specced priest geared completely differently. Play shadow when you're solo or when your party needs DPS, and play holy when you're with a party that needs a healer

4) One for PVE and one for PVP. Different gear, different talents, different server, same class

5) You enjoy the midgame *and* endgame of WoW and you want a lower-level character and a max-level character in the same class

I'm sure there are more...

jayjay
01-18-2007, 11:47 AM
I just got an email from supervenusfreak.

It arrived!!!!!

I wonder if I'd get in trouble for going home sick to play WoW?

(Calm down, dear...I'm joking...)

Enderw24
01-18-2007, 11:51 AM
Oh, yeah... Copper bars were selling for 2 gold per stack of 20. Thank you, jewelcrafters! My dwarven paladin loves you!

I had stacks sell for 3g. Next batch goes to 3.5g. What's great is that I can collect a stack of copper in about ten minutes. Yes indeed, thank you jewel crafters. You're twice the profit with half the work compared with gingerbread cookies.

lisacurl
01-18-2007, 02:44 PM
World's first level 70 (http://www.worldofraids.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3441)

Made it in 28 hours straight play time.

Ethilrist
01-18-2007, 02:52 PM
I thought there was something in the EULA that prohibited people from playing over a certain numbers of hours a day? :dubious:

SenorBeef
01-18-2007, 03:08 PM
I thought there was something in the EULA that prohibited people from playing over a certain numbers of hours a day? :dubious:

Chinese law prohibits people from playing over a certain amount of hours per day. That may be what you're thinking of.

SenorBeef
01-18-2007, 03:10 PM
Gah, posted too soon.

It's kind of sad that it's possible to go from 60 to 70 that quickly. I thought I remembered hearing that it would take as much time to go from 60-70 that it did from 0-60 - and you can't go 0-60 in 28 hours.

Makes me wonder how much new content is there. With 2 years of development, and 4 CDs worth of data (same as the original game), I would hope there'd be a lot of content.

Then again, I guess you could powerlevel up to 70 without exploring half the content available.

lisacurl
01-18-2007, 04:07 PM
I thought there was something in the EULA that prohibited people from playing over a certain numbers of hours a day? Chinese law prohibits people from playing over a certain amount of hours per day. That may be what you're thinking of.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4183340.stm

Indeed.

Last time I checked, the U.S. (and France, where the uber nerd hit 70 in 28 consecutive hours of play) were still sort of free countries.

lisacurl
01-18-2007, 04:36 PM
Someone posted this funny on the official forums:

While You're in Outland (think about who you're neglecting) (http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=68557211&sid=1)

"wtf he's wearing greens!"

I thought it was funny.

SenorBeef
01-23-2007, 10:21 AM
Well, so far, I mostly like it. I have no major complaints except the crazy ass item and gold inflation.

Pre-expansion, I had around 2200 gold, which is a pretty decent amount of money in WoW. But that gold was probably devalued by half or more instantly because of how easy it is to collect gold. Amassing 2200 gold pre-BC was a challenge, and now it's a week or two's wortk of work. I already have, I dunno, 3700 or something by now. Although that's not all, or probably most, by questing. I'm trying to take advantage of the economic fluctuations of BC - for instance, people will pay a premium for what is really just bottom-end greens of BC because even though they're not good *for bc* they're an upgrade over their gear. And making jewelcrafters pay for their skill ups is a lucrative business. Something like malachite might've gone for 80s-1.2g a stack pre-BC, but since it's in such high demand for skill ups, it'll sell for 6g+ now. But some people, used to the old prices, still price them that way, so sometimes you can snatch up a stack for cheap and resell it at a 5g profit.

The citadel instances are good. Not too long, well designed, challenging without being overly complex. I hope this design is consistent, and that I don't get into boring ass 4 hour instances in the next zone over.

World PVP (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/pvp/worldpvp/index.xml) sounds nice, especially the capturable city in Nagrand (with bomber sorties, no less). That's the sort of meaningful world PVP that I've wanted since the start - since PVP up to this point has been nothing but lame non-competitive ganking with no real overall goal. Having capturable stuff and giving overall meaning and organization to PVP really makes the experience a whole lot better.

SenorBeef
02-03-2007, 10:04 PM
Well, I've discovered a HUGE, CAN SEE IT FROM A MILE AWAY flaw.

There's no 61-69 bracket for battlegrounds. Or at least with-BC 60-69.

What that means is that people who are 60 that want to pvp will be HORRIBLY VASTLY undergeared, 5+ levels below everyone else, and be a liability to their team. Often, the team with the most 60s on it will lose.

This is simply an inexcusably monumentally stupid design mistake on Blizzard's part. There's no way a pre-BC 60 will be competitive with a post-BC 60-69 player, and they do not belong in the same battleground.

What other option does someone who isn't going to get BC have, though?

Of course, there are still plenty of idiots who play at level x0, x1, x2, etc for any level of battleground. And I really hate that. It's selfish - you're a liability to your team because you take the slot of someone who could be 5 times more effective than you. On average, since Horde players are less stupid, they tend to be of higher levels - and that combines to create the 80%+ horde win rate you often see.

Of course, when you talk to them about it, they're always the exception. "Yeah, most level x0s and x1s suck, but I can kill people 30 levels higher than me easily so I'm cool"

Overall, the BG stupidity really gets to me after a while. Alliance plays so horribly - like almost intentionally horribly, or something. They have no idea what they're doing at any given time, they have no purpose - they're just like a retarded puppy looking around, and the enemy is a shiny object. OOOOH SHINY!! MUST GO GET!!!

So instead of doing something productive like taking or defending flags, they'll just wander about, looking for the enemy, and charging blindly at them. And it's depressing to be on the same team people who play willfully stupidly in loss after loss after loss.

So on AB, for instance, 2 of your flags might be completely undefended, and yet 8 people on your team will be in the middle of some crossroads doing nothing productive whatsoever because they saw an enemy or two there. Or.. if you have 8 guys all mounted up and running to a flag, and all of the sudden there's *ONE* enemy in a street somewhere, inconsequential, they'll all dismount to fight him. Because OOOOH SHINY.

I gotta try to be less stressed about it. I'm not ultra-competitive or anything, I just can't stand to see inexplicable stupidity over and over and over again.

lisacurl
02-04-2007, 12:39 AM
Well, I've discovered a HUGE, CAN SEE IT FROM A MILE AWAY flaw.

There's no 61-69 bracket for battlegrounds. Or at least with-BC 60-69.
Am I just not understanding your complaint or ???

Eye of the Storm is the battleground for levels 61-69, with a separate bracket for level 70. It requires BC.

Current non-BC-playing level 60s are going to be lumped in with 61-69s in the legacy battlegrounds of Warsong Gulch, Arathi Basin, and Alterac Valley, and they've been bitching about it since release day. I don't expect Blizzard to create a 60-only bracket, because they *want* people to install the expansion.

SenorBeef
02-04-2007, 12:41 AM
Am I just not understanding your complaint or ???

Eye of the Storm is the battleground for levels 61-69, with a separate bracket for level 70. It requires BC.

Current non-BC-playing level 60s are going to be lumped in with 61-69s in the legacy battlegrounds of Warsong Gulch, Arathi Basin, and Alterac Valley, and they've been bitching about it since release day. I don't expect Blizzard to create a 60-only bracket, because they *want* people to install the expansion.

I don't understand what you don't understand.

3 of the 4 battlegrounds are going to have matches that come down to which team has the most vastly underequipped, underlevelled players holding them back. That's a terrible design decision. They're trying to force people to buy their product, but it lessens the quality of both people who don't have the expansion (because they can't PVP remotely competitively) and even people who do have it (by making the game all about which team has fewer non-BC people).

There's no benefit to it, and obvious downsides.

lisacurl
02-04-2007, 01:00 AM
I don't understand what you don't understand.

3 of the 4 battlegrounds are going to have matches that come down to which team has the most vastly underequipped, underlevelled players holding them back. That's a terrible design decision. They're trying to force people to buy their product, but it lessens the quality of both people who don't have the expansion (because they can't PVP remotely competitively) and even people who do have it (by making the game all about which team has fewer non-BC people).

There's no benefit to it, and obvious downsides.
I just don't think it's a big deal. It's an extension of what already exists throughout the leveling in the game. You enter the battlegrounds at level 19, you stand a good chance of kicking ass. You enter the same battleground at level 20, you'll die a lot. The psychotically competitive pvpers will freak out if someone below level x9 in their range dares enter the battleground just like they always do.

Level 60 isn't the top of the field any more. People need to adjust. If they don't want to install BC, then they need to accept the fact that their characters are going to be gimps compared to anyone with the expansion. The original game is two years old. Time marches on.

Lissa
02-04-2007, 01:08 AM
And making jewelcrafters pay for their skill ups is a lucrative business. Something like malachite might've gone for 80s-1.2g a stack pre-BC, but since it's in such high demand for skill ups, it'll sell for 6g+ now. But some people, used to the old prices, still price them that way, so sometimes you can snatch up a stack for cheap and resell it at a 5g profit.

I spent the first couple of weeks exploiting this very thing. I was a miner and blacksmith. When the expansion came out, a good number of people dumped their professions or made new characters for jewelcrafting/mining. But it takes time to work your way up in these things. I had about a two-week "head start" and during that time, I sold large amounts of gems and ores for crazy sums to the impatient ones. I never made money like the thousands you're talking about, but I did triple my worth in less than 20 days.

I dropped mining a while back. Competition for nodes was getting fierce and I had lots of unpleasant situations in which my node was ninja'd while I was fighting. The prices started to drop from their Tulipomania highs and so I quit. I listened to general chat a bit and made note of the "LTB" calls for various items and services and chose a profession which seemed to be in demand (many of the previous people in that profession having left to try the new one.)

DeadlyAccurate
02-04-2007, 01:09 AM
On average, since Horde players are less stupid...

So, for the vast numbers of us who play on both sides, are we only stupid when we're on the Alliance side, or does our stupidity bleed over to the Horde side and bring that whole faction's obviously superior intelligence down?

lisacurl
02-04-2007, 02:21 PM
I know, that cracked me up too, DeadlyAccurate. I'm bifactional, and I've noticed no significant difference in play between sides.

SenorBeef
02-04-2007, 03:16 PM
I just don't think it's a big deal. It's an extension of what already exists throughout the leveling in the game.

No, it isn't. Because even for a level 60, the gap between a pre-BC 60 and a post-BC 60 is huge. You get weapons and armor on your first few BC quests that are better than some of the better pre-BC raiding gear.

Not only that, but a level 12 player in a 10-20 BG simply should stop and level up. But a level 60 player without BC has no option to do so.

So, for the vast numbers of us who play on both sides, are we only stupid when we're on the Alliance side, or does our stupidity bleed over to the Horde side and bring that whole faction's obviously superior intelligence down?

You make it sound as if I'm pulling this out of my ass, but this is a pretty clearly understood thing among WoW players.

As a cross-faction player, and an SDMB poster, you're probably smart and competant. Plenty of people on alliance are. But the alliance, as a whole, has a much greater concentration of stupid and/or inexperienced players.

There are different guesses as to why this is. The most common is that immature kids tend to like the attractive races of the alliance over the ugly races of the horde. Most of the "OMG I'M GONNA MAKE A NIGHT ELF HUNTER NAMED LEGOLAS LOLOLOLOL I AM SO UNIQUE" people are on alliance.

Additionally, most new players tend to lean towards alliance, tending to identify with them more, and seeing them as the good guys. So, on average, the people who tend to join the horde are more experienced.

I have characters on 3 servers and I've played BGs as both factions. Across all of them, the Horde tends to have a 75% or better win rate in WSG, and AB. I'm not making this stuff up - there is a disparity, and pretty much all WoW players agree. It was probably the driving reason that they gave the horde blood elves.

Cazzle
02-04-2007, 05:45 PM
The only difference I've ever noticed between Horde and Alliance is that Horde chat seems to be mostly "OMG Alliance r so dumb! Chuck Norris! LOLZ", while Alliance chat is usually more along the lines of "Chuck Norris! LOLZ".

BlackKnight
02-04-2007, 06:17 PM
I have nothing to add other than that I think, "Where's the Grand Master First Aid trainer?" is the new "Where's Mankrik's wife?"

I must have seen five people in a row ask that question in Hellfire Peninsula within a half-hour period.

RickJay
02-04-2007, 09:25 PM
I must admit, as someone who's played both sides, I've been in 20-30 BG runs and I've seen the Alliance win exactly once. I would guess the Alliance's record in BG instances I've bee in is something like 1-27. That's beyond any reasonable expectaiton of random chance.

It could be that Alliance players are disproportionately inexperienced. I also suspect Horde players are likelier to be twitchy children and teenagers who are into PvP.

SenorBeef
02-05-2007, 04:05 AM
The 70 PVP gear sucks.

I mean, it's not terrible, but it's in no way worth what it costs.

I was really happy when they switched the honor system from a relative ranking system to a currency system. I figured it gave an alternative path to getting good gear - you didn't have to necesarily raid all the time, at specific times, and coordinate with 39 other people. You could work at your own pace, PVP, and work your way up to getting good gear.

And the gear was awesome! Sure, you had to work for it - the old PVP dagger would take about 75-100 AB matches to get, but it kicked the hell out of anything you could buy, and was competitive with what you could get on raids. So it seemed worth it, if you liked to PVP.

But the level 70 gear isn't that much better than the level 60 gear. And more importantly, it's not much better than that you could easily acquire by buying or questing. The PVP dagger has almost the exact same stats as a world drop BOE dagger I could buy right now for around 400g. And in BC, 400g is nothing. I've made somewhere around, I dunno, 3000-4500g since BC came out. There's another, more rare and expensive, BOE dagger that you can buy that is significantly better than the PVP dagger.

And the armor is garbage. An example: Pants I got from a quest at level 66: +30 agi +45 sta +62 AP. The rogue PVP pants: +28 agi +42 sta +14 crit +28 resilience +28 AP. My current pants, which I acquired from a relatively easy quest, at level 66, are equal to or better than the level 70 PVP pants which would require 23625 honor, which is about 60-75 runs of AB or WSG *even on their battleground weekend*

So we're talking about dozens of hours to get something that's arguably worse than what I already have.

I don't know how other classes compare really, so maybe their gear isn't as sad as that of rogues, but most of the PVP armor isn't all that much an improvement over the common green armor available to me at level 67, and yet you have to work for dozens of hours for every piece.

So, they made a good feature - honor as currency - and then made it useless by making it so that nothing you can buy is remotely worth the effort.

Jayn_Newell
02-05-2007, 07:24 AM
I also suspect Horde players are likelier to be twitchy children and teenagers who are into PvP.
This is my suspiscion as well. I've also heard that Horde PUGs tend to co-ordinate more than Alliance ones do (which, lets face it, wouldn't take much), but I refuse to PvP with my Horde toon so I can't say. At any rate, the absolute lack of organisation isn't helping us any.

SenorBeef, that may be so, but I find that Horde players also tend to have more of an attitude problem, as well as superiority complexes re: Alliance (Thanks Cazzle, I've noticed the same thing). Honestly, I haven't seen much difference in actual intelligence levels, just in how abrasive each side is. Give me the Alliance any day--at least the idiots aren't pricks as well (not as often, anyways).

BlackKnight
02-05-2007, 10:58 AM
The theory I've always subscribed to is that since the Horde has been largely outnumbered since the game launched, they've had more experience working together as a team. The Alliance had often been able to get buy in world PvP (back before Civilians were added, in the glory days of Tarren Mill vs. Southshore) simply by zerging the Horde with overwhelming numbers. Horde players therefore had to learn a great deal of co-operation just to be able to survive. When Battlegrounds were added, that co-operation carried over for the Horde, but the Alliance was no longer able to rely on superior numbers.

(This is clearly a generalization, of course. Some Alliance groups have superb co-ordination, and many Horde groups are morons.)

lisacurl
02-05-2007, 11:26 AM
I'm really curious to see how that's is going to hold out in, say, six months from now. I really believe one of the goals of this expansion was to made the Horde sexy and thus address the faction imbalance. Granted, a lot of players may not stick with their new Blood Elves once they get out of the freakin' incredible new starting areas for them, but I don't know. Mana Tap is an awesome racial ability, particularly used as a ranged attack on a paladin and I'm blasting through levels on my Blood Elf priest.

DigitalC
02-05-2007, 05:38 PM
The horde/alliance inbalance is mostly on pve/rp servers. Most pvp servers are at about equal numbers, maybe slightly leaning towards alliance, and you also hear a whole lot less of the "alliance suck at pvp" crap. On my server i never noticed the alliance losing more than horde pick up groups, specially since pick up groups are nothing but delicious honor filled piñatas for organized groups. Ever since the cross realm battle grounds though alliance teams just blow, i can't play pick up groups anymore its like some of those people have never pvped in their life.

The expansion rocks so far, i've made it to 64 already and im having a blast like in the old days. The instances are really well done, with interesting boss encounters, and best of all done in a decent amount of time. My guild is all about pushing to 70 to start raiding but im not going to bother with it much this time around.

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