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View Full Version : debt elimination? legal? smart or dumb?


cedman
12-26-2007, 07:52 AM
I stumbled across this site while helping my daughter research something for school.

http://www.fdrs.org/index.html

The history seems fairly accurate as far as I know... creation of Federal Reserve, evil bankers, hacking the Constitution, blah, blah,blah (whatcha gonna do about it now short of armed revolt?).
What blew my mind is what's under the tab of debt elimination! Is any of this doable? Without ruining your credit? Being stabbed in the dark by the credit card's evil henchmen? MORE senseless things than this have come about due to the twisting of words and laws by lawyers. I've never heard of anything like this going on. What's the Straight Dope?

Shodan
12-26-2007, 08:37 AM
I stumbled across this site while helping my daughter research something for school.

http://www.fdrs.org/index.html

The history seems fairly accurate as far as I know... creation of Federal Reserve, evil bankers, hacking the Constitution, blah, blah,blah (whatcha gonna do about it now short of armed revolt?).
What blew my mind is what's under the tab of debt elimination! Is any of this doable? Without ruining your credit? Being stabbed in the dark by the credit card's evil henchmen? MORE senseless things than this have come about due to the twisting of words and laws by lawyers. I've never heard of anything like this going on. What's the Straight Dope?
They will collect a fee from you up front, and add your name to a list of people listed as plaintiffs on some future lawsuit. Their claim is that you will not have to pay your credit card debts because the credit card companies have engaged in fraud and false advertising and the other malfeasance listed on their website.

Chance of your eliminating any debt due to this: indistinguishable from zero.
Chance of their making a profit from the fee they collect from you: high.

It's a rip off. There is always a proportion of people who believe that there are easy, cost-free solutions to problems requiring no effort on their part.

Regards,
Shodan

Crafter_Man
12-26-2007, 09:00 AM
Getting "out" of debt is very easy in the United States: just stop paying you bills. The worst they can do is ruin your credit rating and (possibly) take some of your possessions (e.g. your home).

We don't have debtors' prisons in the United States. IANAL, but it's my understanding that, unless the debt involves fraud, child support or alimony, you can't go to prison for not paying your bills, nor can you be convicted in a criminal court.

msmith537
12-26-2007, 09:45 AM
The history seems fairly accurate as far as I know... creation of Federal Reserve, evil bankers, hacking the Constitution, blah, blah,blah (whatcha gonna do about it now short of armed revolt?).

Then I suggest you do some more research into the history of the modern American banking and finance system.

This type of service targets people who know little to nothing about money or finance. It plays off of their fear and anger and ignorance and class issues and convinces them that they really can live above their means by cheating the system somehow. In other words, you aren't in massive debt because you spend too much. It's because you were duped by evil bankers and creditors.


Here's the deal:
A loan, whether it's a credit card, mortgage, school or car loan is NOT free money. Just like you, whoever loans out the money expect to recieve that money back. They also expect to recieve a little extra money for their trouble in the form of interest.

I don't understand how people run up $10,000 in credit card debt from buying crap with no idea of how they are going to pay it off.


My advice to you is instead of feeding your daughter a bunch of bullshit about the money and banking system, find her a good book on personal finance.

Shodan
12-26-2007, 09:47 AM
Getting "out" of debt is very easy in the United States: just stop paying you bills.
Or start. That can work, too. :D
We don't have debtors' prisons in the United States. IANAL, but it's my understanding that, unless the debt involves fraud, child support or alimony, you can't go to prison for not paying your bills, nor can you be convicted in a criminal court.Don't forget taxes.

There are several ways to get out of debt. This website is not one of them, AFAICT.

Regards,
Shodan

cedman
12-26-2007, 09:54 AM
Then I suggest you do some more research into the history of the modern American banking and finance system.

This type of service targets people who know little to nothing about money or finance. It plays off of their fear and anger and ignorance and class issues and convinces them that they really can live above their means by cheating the system somehow. In other words, you aren't in massive debt because you spend too much. It's because you were duped by evil bankers and creditors.

Here's the deal:
A loan, whether it's a credit card, mortgage, school or car loan is NOT free money. Just like you, whoever loans out the money expect to recieve that money back. They also expect to recieve a little extra money for their trouble in the form of interest.

I don't understand how people run up $10,000 in credit card debt from buying crap with no idea of how they are going to pay it off.

My advice to you is instead of feeding your daughter a bunch of bullshit about the money and banking system, find her a good book on personal finance.


I never said that this was part of HER research. I said I stumbled across the website. I am incredulous as well as to how anyone can think they can buy and not pay, hence the questions. I understand finance well enough that I have NO unsecured debt and ALL of my secured debt is being paid by rental units.

msmith537
12-26-2007, 08:02 PM
I never said that this was part of HER research. I said I stumbled across the website. I am incredulous as well as to how anyone can think they can buy and not pay, hence the questions. I understand finance well enough that I have NO unsecured debt and ALL of my secured debt is being paid by rental units.

I thought you were researching colleges or something and it might have been related to either school loans or credit card debt.

You should still teach her about basic personal finance though. I work with a lot of young kids out of college who don't even understand how our companies 401k or stock purchase plan works. It's like they're too lazy to sign up because they can't be bothered to take the time to learn about it. I'm like "so..I guess you make enough money that you can forego a 6% raise + 15% of what you put into the stock plan?"

cedman
12-27-2007, 07:14 AM
I thought you were researching colleges or something and it might have been related to either school loans or credit card debt.

You should still teach her about basic personal finance though. I work with a lot of young kids out of college who don't even understand how our companies 401k or stock purchase plan works. It's like they're too lazy to sign up because they can't be bothered to take the time to learn about it. I'm like "so..I guess you make enough money that you can forego a 6% raise + 15% of what you put into the stock plan?"

LOL! I wish they were that far along! I had a hard time remembering what the research was for; a 5th grade Washington, DC field trip IIRC. Looking up stuff on the Washington Monument, the site I referrenced in my OP came up on a Google search. I was curious and when I had some time, I scanned the site. I really couldn't believe what I was reading so I came to the Dope hoping someone knew more about this.

The older I get, the crazier the world seems to become.

Can some of your college kids balance their checkbook? I read somewhere that... 80%?.... of American 20 year olds didn't know how to do this.

msmith537
12-30-2007, 08:13 PM
Can some of your college kids balance their checkbook? I read somewhere that... 80%?.... of American 20 year olds didn't know how to do this.

Beats me. I took an interest in my personal finances since the third grade. Basically as soon as I figured out that I needed to save up money I earned through chores in order to buy a Def Leppard tape. I've been using Quicken to track my finances since jr year in college.

I wouldn't be surprised by your statistics. We have an entire generation of kids just getting handed whatever they want. By the time the get to college, they are
handed credit cards but have no understanding of how much stuff costs, what interest is or even what debt is for that matter.

PBear42
12-31-2007, 12:56 AM
Several years ago, I had occasion (professionally) to learn a great deal about debt redemption-termination-elimination schemes. Regretably, I no longer have that research file, so what I relate here comes only from memory, unsupported by cites. Since this is only an "Is this a bunch of hooey?" kind of inquiry, though, I thought you might consider my comments worth having, at least a little bit.

Bottom line, yeah, it's a bunch of hooey. I've not seen this particular site before, but it's like most I have seen. What they do is stitch together (incorrectly) a bunch of legitimate legal concepts in a superficially credible way. An example of an error here which jumps out at me is the assertion that loan applications are endorsed as negotiable instruments (pay to the order of ... ) and deposited with the Federal Reserve. Balderdash. Loan applications are filed in the lender's records. The right to recover the loan is listed as an asset. That's all. The rest, about what is "real" money and whose money it is, is nonsense. You borrow money and promise to pay it back. That's a contract. If you default, you can be sued. Absent a defense at law or in equity, lender can get a judgment. This judgment can be collected by seizing assets, garnishing wages, etc. The debt (generally) can be discharged in bankruptcy, but otherwise there's no silver bullet.

FWIW, this is one the less absurd debt elimination theories I've seen. Others assert, for example, that since there is no "real" money, you can write your own instrument of discharge. IOW, your fake money is as good as anyone elses. Yet others assert that your only real name is given in ALL CAPITALS, and so any alleged debt in mere title case doesn't bind you. A third theory holds that if you write the lender denying the debt and they don't respond within unrealistic parameters you define and with unrealistic proofs you demand, the debt is waived. And there are others. All of them share the notion that magic words can somehow make the debt go away. It's worth noting that there has never been a case in which one of these theories was sustained in a court of law. If you were a prospective client and asked the sponsor for a citation to a case in which its particular theory was accepted, you would get a lot of words, but no citation.

What's really going on, then, and why these schemes survive and get testimonials, is that debt collection is a practical business. If a hundred borrowers try the debt termination gambit, a substantial fraction of them won't be worth pursuing because they don't have assets. Every time a lender takes a pass, the sponsor will take the credit. The relieved borrower, knowing no better, will be happy to agree. And this is taken as evidence, by the next wave of borrowers, that there must be something to this. It's like this pin I wear to ward off elephants. You don't see any elephants, do you? Must be working.

cedman
12-31-2007, 07:04 AM
*snip* Loan applications are filed in the lender's records. The right to recover the loan is listed as an asset. That's all. The rest, about what is "real" money and whose money it is, is nonsense. You borrow money and promise to pay it back. That's a contract. If you default, you can be sued. *snip*

That's exactly how I remember it from business class... a long time ago. If this did prove out to be true... then I'd KNOW that I've been abducted by aliens!

cedman
12-31-2007, 07:08 AM
*snip* By the time the get to college, they are
handed credit cards but have no understanding of how much stuff costs, what interest is or even what debt is for that matter.

We got our girls in foster care when they were 8 and 10. We adopted them and they are now 10 and 12. There are a lot of areas where they need to catch up, but they are blessed to be natural savers. They get spending money but they hold on to it with a death grip until they get a good deal.

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