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View Full Version : The Wire Finale: "-30-" - open spoilers after the show airs


AuntiePam
03-09-2008, 01:14 PM
Starting a thread early to share this awesome Survivor: West Baltimore (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bb5kqMEwu20) video. It contains SPOILERS through episode 9.

Anyone have special plans for watching? I'm turning off the phone and making sure the dog gets his potty break, but other than that, it'll just be me and my box of tissues.

If anyone's seen the finale, please box your spoilers until after the show has aired. Kthx!

aliquot
03-09-2008, 02:53 PM
I've seen it. Without spoiling anything, I'd say it's maybe a little too neat, a little too pat, but I'll take it. I guess I'd prefer too few loose ends to too many.

brownie55
03-09-2008, 07:22 PM
Forty minutes until the finale of the finest series ever. I have been in a funk all weekend, knowing this is the end. I loved aspects of Deadwood more, but overall, I am now fully in The Wire camp.

JpnDude
03-09-2008, 09:08 PM
I started watching this show in January this year and got through all five seasons. I've also seen the finale. It was a fitting end and no "sudden black screen" like in The Sopranos. There are quite a few "I knew it", "a-ha", and "WTF?" moments to make for some interesting discussion.

I'll miss this show.

BobT
03-09-2008, 09:39 PM
A great conclusion to a great series. The street, like life, just keeps going on, no matter who is around.

brownie55
03-09-2008, 10:03 PM
To quote from a scene in the first season:
Fuck
FUCK
fuck
FUCK FUCK
Fuck
Fuck
FUCK
Fuuuuuck
Fuck

I only cried once. I expected Marlo to be back on the streets, and took that as confirmation that he would be incarcerated soon. I'm good with that. But damn, Dookie oiling up? As far as he had come? That was what had me reaching for the tissues. Mike ripping off the cash store, good. Slim Charles popping Cheese, better. Dookie riding the horse, can't take it. I hope Lester keeps his woman happy and McNulty can hold on to Beadie, the scene on the porch gave me hope. Norman sticking the made up issue back in Carcetti's face was classic. I am going to miss this show.

AuntiePam
03-09-2008, 10:10 PM
I'm happy with it too, except for Dukie, of course. In the version of The Wire that will continue to run in my head, he'll get help from Bubbles or Cutty.

Very satisfying finale. Particularly loved Norman laughing at Carcetti. I also really liked McNulty's fake funeral, since there were "spoilers" around that he was dead in the finale, from a car accident. I wonder if Simon did that on purpose, to foil the spoilers.

brownie55
03-09-2008, 10:13 PM
I'm happy with it too, except for Dukie, of course. In the version of The Wire that will continue to run in my head, he'll get help from Bubbles or Cutty.

Very satisfying finale.
I'll watch your version in my head and hope that happens. There was so much hope in that montage, but I keep coming back to that one scene.

fiddlesticks
03-09-2008, 11:12 PM
I wonder what McNulty will do with himself. I'm not sure if I see him getting a "save the world/Baltimore via other means job" like Bunny Colvin did after he was drummed out and not ending up drunk 24 hours a day. It was great to see another cop funeral. I'm pissed (but perhaps not surprised) that Scott got away with his lies and the paper won a Pulitzer. I'm thrilled that Bubbles got let upstairs, and maybe that means someday Dukie and Bug will find a better life.

flickster
03-09-2008, 11:37 PM
Big smiles for Cedric, McNulty, Lester, Bubbles, and I guess Rhonda came out OK as well.

Sad face for Dukie

The rest are stuck in the perpetual cycle of crap

BobT
03-09-2008, 11:51 PM
Valchek ends up as Commissioner? And Rawls remains in the closet.

I was glad Kenard got caught and Slim finally did what a lot of people wanted to do to Cheese.

Valerieblaise
03-10-2008, 01:22 AM
That ending montage was perfect, in that they've done it every season, but this time they used "Down in the Hole," and it just seemed so fitting. I almost started crying when Dukie was shooting up, but the thing that made me LOSE it was Reginald getting to go upstairs to eat with his sister and her kid.

Kenard got arrested, but Levy is still practicing law. Chris is in prison, hanging out with Wee-Bey, but Marlo has gone from being the new Avon to being the new Stringer. And were they suggesting that Sydnor becomes another McNulty, in the scene with him and the Judge?

I'm as satisfied as I can be, I think, because I didn't want it to end. If it HAD to end, they HAD to show the game moving on, and they threw in a few happy endings without making it ridiculous.

Hippy Hollow
03-10-2008, 01:41 AM
Dukie's situation was sad, but one hopes that he'll end up like Bubbles and cleaning up one day.

So Mike is a hustler in the streets now? Unfortunately there's no future in that life. He's either going to wind up dead or locked up. It would have been nice to see him leave Baltimore and doing something else somewhere else. But that wasn't going to happen, was it?

Marlo... that motherfucker. How does he even purport to be one of the upper crust, wheeling and dealing? He'll always have to work out of the shadows. That scene was pretty ridiculous. If I understood it correctly, that scene was to show that he's really a gangster and will always return to the streets. Hopefully he won't last long.

Oh, and Cheese? Ha!

Gozu
03-10-2008, 01:43 AM
Interview with the main creator of the show, 5 pages of delicious awesomeness.

http://www.salon.com/ent/tv/feature/2008/03/10/simon/index.html

MaxTheVool
03-10-2008, 02:47 AM
Well, it's over. The 5th season was certainly the weakest, but still damn good television, and it managed to both wrap things up nicely, and also NOT wrap things up nicely. The game is still going on. Michael is the new Omar. Sydnor is the new McNulty. Nerese is the new Royce. Dukie is the new Bubbles. The greeks are still in place.

One of the big question marks for me is Carcetti. I always thought he was portrayed as being, while obviously not incorruptible, at least someone who cared, someone who was clearly several steps up from the Clay Davis mold. He was too focused on his own career, but he did honestly try to make the city better. Or did I just naively fooled by his boyish good looks and charm?

monstro
03-10-2008, 06:08 AM
Loved seeing Lester with the prostitute from first season. I was just thinking about her the other day, wondering if she and Lester had ever hooked up.

Dukie's going to end up dead. Bubbles has a sister with a basement. What the hell does Dukie have? Nothing, that's what. He'll be dead in a year.

I hate that Templeton never had a real "come to Jesus" moment, but such is life. Not all the gamers get caught, and it would have been too pat if he had. But still, I kept waiting for the scene where we find his dead body. Characters like his always end up suiciding themselves off. So glad the show didn't go for that cliche.

Overall, I loved the season as well as the series. It was my favorite show of all time.

Trunk
03-10-2008, 06:34 AM
Dukie's not going to end up dead. He's going to end up Bubbles.

And, Mike's the new Omar. Sticking up the bad guys.

Good finale. I really liked the two Baltimore montages (there was a nice brief one in the middle). They didn't focus on Bubbs too much this season, but I really liked everything they did with him. The "door" was a nice touch.

And, McNulty's convo with Scott was great.

AuntiePam
03-10-2008, 10:46 AM
Loved seeing Lester with the prostitute from first season. I was just thinking about her the other day, wondering if she and Lester had ever hooked up.


I choose to believe that Shardene was just a dancer, that she never hooked. :) She and Lester have been together for awhile. We saw her in S2 or S3 (?) at the MCU and it looked like she was wearing one of Lester's shirts. Lester recognized her quality right off, when she was willing to risk her life to help bring down Avon.

I wonder if Michael is really going to be the next Omar, or if he was just trying to draw Marlo out by ripping off the rim shop.

VarlosZ
03-10-2008, 10:58 AM
I would've like to see at least a cameo from Avon, but I still liked the episode quite a bit.

Loved to see Cheese catch one.

Rubystreak
03-10-2008, 10:59 AM
Probably a really dumb question: why was the ep called "30"?

Michael is the new Omar. Sydnor is the new McNulty. Nerese is the new Royce. Dukie is the new Bubbles. The greeks are still in place.

Yep, nothing changed, really. I agree that Mike is filling Omar's role now, though I hope he has a happier ending to his career. Very sad about Dukie... maybe he and Mike will find each other again. Kima is also following in McNulty's footsteps, giving a shit when it's not her turn. Looks like Rhonda is the new Phelan, and Daniels might eventually be the new, improved Bond (now with integrity!)

What will Jimmy do now? I'm glad they didn't kill him off. Will he turn into Herc, only smarter and not as much of a sell-out? What about Marlo? Is he headed back to jail once he's back on the street, or was that attack on the corner boy a one-time thing, for old time's sake? Will he become Stringer (semi-legit business man) or Avon (unable to leave the street behind)?

One of the big question marks for me is Carcetti. I always thought he was portrayed as being, while obviously not incorruptible, at least someone who cared, someone who was clearly several steps up from the Clay Davis mold. He was too focused on his own career, but he did honestly try to make the city better. Or did I just naively fooled by his boyish good looks and charm?

Were you still fooled by the end, when Daniels was forced out for not wanting to lie and juke the stats? That was the give-away that Carcetti turned out to be just like the rest of them-- remember when he was the Mayor Elect, he promised Daniels there would be no cooking of stats? Well, that went all out the window when he decided to run for Governor. He is just as corrupt and self-interested as Clarence Royce was (no, not as bad as Clay Davis, but shiiiiiit, that's damning with faint praise). Obviously Nerisse Campbell is also more of the same. Power corrupts, and yes, Carcetti was corrupted by it. He was a huge disappointment.

MaxTheVool
03-10-2008, 12:09 PM
Were you still fooled by the end, when Daniels was forced out for not wanting to lie and juke the stats? That was the give-away that Carcetti turned out to be just like the rest of them-- remember when he was the Mayor Elect, he promised Daniels there would be no cooking of stats? Well, that went all out the window when he decided to run for Governor. He is just as corrupt and self-interested as Clarence Royce was (no, not as bad as Clay Davis, but shiiiiiit, that's damning with faint praise). Obviously Nerisse Campbell is also more of the same. Power corrupts, and yes, Carcetti was corrupted by it. He was a huge disappointment.

I'm not sure I totally agree. I think part of the message is that the system will always be there, and there will always be players in the same places, but that doesn't mean that nothing ever changes. Being a low level cog in the Baltimore street drug industry is never going to be a great life, but would you rather that Prop Joe or Marlo Stanfield was running the show? Similarly, neither Royce nor Carcetti was an angel, but that doesn't mean there was zero difference between them. Compromising your principles doesn't mean you've abandoned them entirely.

But yeah, he was definitely a big disappointment. (Insert your own Barack Obama comparison here.)

flickster
03-10-2008, 12:14 PM
What about Marlo? Is he headed back to jail once he's back on the street, or was that attack on the corner boy a one-time thing, for old time's sake? Will he become Stringer (semi-legit business man) or Avon (unable to leave the street behind)?

Seems to me that Marlo was shown heading back for life on the street (and probably jail) as compared to trying to become another Stringer. I think he found himself in a too foreign setting that was seemingly out of his league.

Valerieblaise
03-10-2008, 12:35 PM
I choose to believe that Shardene was just a dancer, that she never hooked. :) She and Lester have been together for awhile. We saw her in S2 or S3 (?) at the MCU and it looked like she was wearing one of Lester's shirts. Lester recognized her quality right off, when she was willing to risk her life to help bring down Avon.



They've been together since the end of season one, when he offered to let her stay with him since they obviously didn't have the resources to put her in protective custody or anything like that. She had moved out of D'Angelo's place and had nowhere else to stay.

Shardeen showed up again in season 2, during the Port investigation - Kima met with her to find out how to get more information on the Russian dancers/prostitutes. Shardeen mentioned that Lester was the reason she was in nursing school and it was pretty clear they were a couple.

She never WAS a prostitute, she was a stripper. They never showed her turning tricks, or even implied it. Even when Lester & Kima were choosing her as an informant, one of the reasons was because the picture they had of her wasn't a mug shot, it was her DMV photo. They recognized her as a "citizen," not someone in the game.

BobT
03-10-2008, 01:55 PM
Probably a really dumb question: why was the ep called "30"?





-30- is traditionally written at the end of stories by newspaper reporters. It lets the editors know when the story is over.

Why "30" is used is a question for Uncle Cecil.

AuntiePam
03-10-2008, 02:00 PM
Probably a really dumb question: why was the ep called "30"?

-30- is what newspaper people type or write at the end of the story, to denote that it's the end.

The funny thing about Carcetti is that he still seems to believe that he's good for Baltimore and for Maryland. His wife gave him a half-disgusted look when he was watching himself on TV, his homeless speech, I think it was, and I wondered if she might say something to him about how manipulative he'd become.

David Simon and Ed Burns are coming up on NPR TOTN in a few minutes.

ZipperJJ
03-10-2008, 02:04 PM
In the article Gozu linked to, the interviewer told David Simon that "people were saying" the last scene with Marlo tasting his own blood was supposed to symbolize something about Marlo's soul. I didn't get that at all.

But, I wonder if that scene was supposed to represent how now that he was on the corner he literally and figuratively cannot go back to the businessman's world. Figuratively, because it's just not in him and literally because now he has a bloody hole in his suit and he can't go back to the party from whence he came.

I also think that Michael is going to be the next Omar. I think they're right in the same place - they both are "from" the game, they both have mixed feelings about the game, and they both think (thought) that they can change the game. The Survivor parody AuntiePam linked to made me chuckle because it showed "Team Omar" as being Omar, Omar, Omar and Omar :)

I think Carcetti believed what he was saying when he ran for mayor in that he wanted to make Baltimore a better place. But he was just too influenced by the people around him and the actualities of Baltimore. Now he has his eyes on the prize of making Baltimore a better place from Annapolis by being the governor. But we all know that he will end up just getting wrapped up in the actuality of Maryland and not advancing Baltimore at all. I think Simon is trying to show that you can either be a politician or a humanitarian, and the system does not allow you to be both.

Is Sydnor supposed to be the new McNulty? I can see how we were to think Kima was, but the last Sydnor shot had him talking to the same judge we say McNulty talking to in the very first episode.

I am also glad Cheese got capped...I've always "liked" Slim Charles. I too also wish we saw what became of Avon.

Who was that old guy with the New Day Co-Op? He looked like the Deacon with glasses - but my copy of the episode was totally stretched out so no one looked like themselves. All my research points to "just some other uncredited old guy"... tell me I was seeing things.

Rubystreak - "-30-" is what a journalist writes at the end of his copy to indicate "the story has ended." It's a short(??) form of -XXX-.

Rubystreak
03-10-2008, 05:24 PM
I'm not sure I totally agree. I think part of the message is that the system will always be there, and there will always be players in the same places, but that doesn't mean that nothing ever changes.

Agree to disagree, then, because I didn't see any meaningful changes. If you can point some out to me (note: they need to be MEANINGFUL changes, not just, "Omar dead, Mike the stick-up boy now," or "Royce out, Carcetti juking the stats now"), and explain why you think this is a significant change for Baltimore, I'd love to see your side of it.

Being a low level cog in the Baltimore street drug industry is never going to be a great life, but would you rather that Prop Joe or Marlo Stanfield was running the show?

Someone just like them is running the very same show, now playing on a corner near you (somewhere in urban America). Just because it's not Joe or Marlo doesn't mean Fat Face Ricky and Slim Charles are anything but more of the same. The Greeks are the same, so the nature of doing business has not been substantially altered. Meet the new boss... same as the old boss (that goes double for the BPD and triple for the City government). All the idealists, reformers, and dreamers are ridden out on a rail or in a body bag. It's the realists, those who play the game, who succeed and retain power. That message is delivered over and over across 5 seasons.

Similarly, neither Royce nor Carcetti was an angel, but that doesn't mean there was zero difference between them. Compromising your principles doesn't mean you've abandoned them entirely.

I think Carcetti has abandoned them entirely. He took Rawls with him to Annapolis, for god's sake. You could argue that's just the reality of doing business, but I don't think that harms my point. That final montage was showing that, while individual people's lives move on, the totality of the situation remains pretty much the same. While the personal tragedies and triumphs of our heroes and villains are interesting stories, the story of the City of Baltimore is going to roll along, largely unchanged by the individual stories that unfold inside it.

Rubystreak
03-10-2008, 06:00 PM
In the article Gozu linked to, the interviewer told David Simon that "people were saying" the last scene with Marlo tasting his own blood was supposed to symbolize something about Marlo's soul. I didn't get that at all.

This is from the article:

Sure he does. I don't want to be the kind of person to tell you what the movie means. The thing about that scene, it's an homage to the end of a movie I love a great deal, "The Gambler" with James Caan, the modernized treatment of Dostoevsky. I confess we stole that sequence in some ways. It's not the same sequence, it's not like Brian de Palma with "Battleship Potemkin" on the stairs [the Odessa steps sequence used in "The Untouchables"]. It's not like we stole the filmic sequence, but if you look at the end of "The Gambler," there are some clues there.

Has anyone seen The Gambler? Can you shed some light on the "clues" Simon says we can find about Marlo in the end of that movie?

Push You Down
03-11-2008, 03:00 PM
I was more than a little disappointed that the last line was as cliche as you can be. I knew the moment McNulty got out of the car and was looking at the city what the line would be.

I'd rather he had just said "Fuck it." and shrugged.

AuntiePam
03-11-2008, 04:16 PM
From the tired, relieved, chastised McNulty, "Let's go home" fits nicely, I think. It is a bit cliche though -- maybe Jimmy's seen the same movies.

It's way better than "Tomorrow's another day". :)

Morbo
03-11-2008, 05:30 PM
Maybe someone can help me with this: was the undercover bum that talked to McNulty after Templeton's bogus report from a previous season? He looked vaguely familiar but I couldn't place him.

Other observations:

Totally forgot about the stripper that helped Freamon in Season 1. Glad to see them still together.

In my mind, the last line should've been "Fits like a glove!" I was cracking up at Valchek in that scene.

And of course I loved McNulty dressing down Templeton - that scene will resonate for me for a while. Then the shoutout of the door to the homicide division from Season 1.

Daniels: "To be continued." Awesome.

Adios, Wire. You will be sorely missed.

AuntiePam
03-11-2008, 05:38 PM
Maybe someone can help me with this: was the undercover bum that talked to McNulty after Templeton's bogus report from a previous season? He looked vaguely familiar but I couldn't place him.


IMDB says the actor is Jeff Wincott, and he's only listed for this episode.

Gozu
03-12-2008, 02:47 AM
Has dave simmons said anything about his next project?

I'm thinking a movie based on the show is likely (i'm predicting good DVD sales).

AuntiePam
03-12-2008, 10:07 AM
David Simon's next project is Generation Kill, a seven-part series set in Baghdad. I think it's gonna be on HBO this summer.

Trunk
03-12-2008, 10:46 AM
David Simon's next project is Generation Kill, a seven-part series set in Baghdad. I think it's gonna be on HBO this summer.
That's pretty interesting.

I have a buddy who is in the Marines and been to Iraq a couple times.

I asked him about the book "Jarhead" once, and he said that all the Marines he knew liked "Generation Kill" a lot better.

Morbo
03-14-2008, 05:53 PM
Great article (http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2008/03/the_wire_finales_final_montage.html). A shot-by-shot commentary of the final montage from the last episode.

Rubystreak
03-14-2008, 07:23 PM
This just in: Randy Wagstaff (http://smokingsection.rawkus.com/TSS/?p=3365) is Cheese Wagstaff's son. So says David Simon, anyway, to a lecture hall at USC. He said he left it out because there were only 10 eps in the season. That's too bad, because it's a story line I'd have been interested in seeing.

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