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View Full Version : Fight my ignorance, help my blood pressure: aren't cats carnivores?


KneadToKnow
04-02-2009, 11:54 AM
Every time I see this stupid frakking commercial that tells me about cat food with vegetables in it, I just want to kick something. I was brought up believing that cats are carnivores and dogs are omnivores, like us.

Do I have a bunch of un-learning to do, or do I get to label this particular indignation as righteous?

ultrafilter
04-02-2009, 11:54 AM
Cats are carnivores, but it's not the case that carnivores don't eat plants.

Edit: Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnivore#Obligate_carnivores) disagrees with me, so maybe you should go with them unless an expert chimes in to say that I'm right.

Raygun99
04-02-2009, 11:57 AM
cats are obligate carnivores, but they also eat a lot of things just because. Grass, for instance.

Terminus Est
04-02-2009, 11:59 AM
Cats are obligate carnivores, which means that they must eat meat. This doesn't mean they only consume meat.

MikeS
04-02-2009, 12:01 PM
Cats require certain nutrients, such as taurine and retinol, that are near-impossible to get from an all-plant diet. Cecil doesn't recommend it (http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1221/can-you-feed-dogs-and-cats-a-vegetarian-diet), and even the Vegetarian Society (http://www.vegsoc.org/info/catfood.html) is less than keen on the idea. This said, there's nothing stopping cats from eating plants along with meat.

Anne Neville
04-02-2009, 12:06 PM
I remind my Luna that she is a carnivore every time she begs for something that isn't meat. She listens about as well as she listens to anything else I tell her. She once jumped up on the stove and took several bites from a pan of cornbread.

My Katya enjoys an occasional snack of pet grass.

smiling bandit
04-02-2009, 12:07 PM
I am given to understand that they also eat vegetables in order to get some fiber, so they like to chew and play with leaves and things (and make messes).

KneadToKnow
04-02-2009, 12:38 PM
All right.

So it's the un-learning option. I can live with that, hate it though I do when it comes to dumb-ass commercials.

Thanks, all.

Sigmagirl
04-02-2009, 12:47 PM
Catnip isn't meat . . .

WhyNot
04-02-2009, 12:54 PM
Remember also that wild cats tend to eat stomach contents of their prey as well as the muscle and skin. So they're getting partially digested grains, nuts and leaves from the guts of their mice, voles and squirrels. They just eat far less herbage than humans or even dogs. And probably less than the pet food manufacturers put in their food, too.

Terminus Est
04-02-2009, 01:48 PM
dogs are omnivores
Incidentally, dogs are considered to be carnivores, too.

Anne Neville
04-02-2009, 02:00 PM
So it's the un-learning option. I can live with that, hate it though I do when it comes to dumb-ass commercials.

If commercials are bothering you to the point of raising your blood pressure, you might want to consider a Tivo.

Incidentally, dogs are considered to be carnivores, too.

But not obligate carnivores.

tdn
04-02-2009, 02:16 PM
Every time I see this stupid frakking commercial that tells me about cat food with vegetables in it

Is this the commercial that talks about the Flavors of Tuscany? Because there is far more wrong with that than just the vegetables. Namely, there is a cat food that has the Flavors of Tuscany.

Sunspace
04-02-2009, 02:18 PM
Is this the commercial that talks about the Flavors of Tuscany? Because there is far more wrong with that than just the vegetables. Namely, there is a cat food that has the Flavors of Tuscany.What? Cats don't like to go for a little Italian as well?

carnivorousplant
04-02-2009, 02:32 PM
Remember also that wild cats tend to eat stomach contents

I was going to post that when they kill Mr. Bunny, they rip his tummy open and eat his gut and it's contents.
Guess I did anyway. :)

whiterabbit
04-02-2009, 02:34 PM
And there's an ad (might be this one) that says the food has a bit of cheese in it.

Considering what cheese does or did to every cat I have ever known, that would put the stuff on the Do Not Buy list if I bought grocery store cat food.

panache45
04-02-2009, 03:47 PM
I am given to understand that they also eat vegetables in order to get some fiber, so they like to chew and play with leaves and things (and make messes).

Yes. Try and tell my cats they're carnivores . . . while they're busy chomping on my houseplants (vomit ensues).

njtt
04-02-2009, 04:20 PM
Are there any carnivores that only ever eat meat (or even that never eat anything but meat if meat is available)? I tend to doubt it.

Terminus Est
04-02-2009, 04:24 PM
Are there any carnivores that only ever eat meat (or even that never eat anything but meat if meat is available)? I tend to doubt it.

Yes, hypercarnivores (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypercarnivore) like dolphins, eagles, snakes, marlin, most sharks, and octopuses.

carnivorousplant
04-02-2009, 04:25 PM
Are there any carnivores that only ever eat meat (or even that never eat anything but meat if meat is available)? I tend to doubt it.

Reptiles and amphibians, perhaps. Woodpeckers.

KneadToKnow
04-02-2009, 04:46 PM
If commercials are bothering you to the point of raising your blood pressure, you might want to consider a Tivo.

But then I'd have to deal with that brain-damaging dik-dook sound. Aaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

;)

Valgard
04-02-2009, 05:25 PM
I was going to post that when they kill Mr. Bunny, they rip his tummy open and eat his gut and it's contents.
Guess I did anyway. :)

Don't think of it as Mr. Bunny, think of it as Hopping Haggis.

Markxxx
04-02-2009, 05:28 PM
I think it's the excusitivity that confuses folks.

Most animals will put stuff in their mouth, then they feel with the inside of their mouth and spit out what shouldn't be there. But every so often the animal will swollow it and develop a taste for it.

For example there are bands of chimps in the wild that have never learned to eat termites. They don't know how to do it. But if you take a chimp who has this skill (or even a human the wild chimps can watch) and if you put this chimp in view of the chimps who lack the termite eating skill, they quickly learn how to make a spear from a stick and stick it into a termite mound and "fish" for termites.

I have also heard of cows in the fields that develop a taste for ants. They will go out to the ant mounds and lick around to get them.

Most birds at some stage of their life eat bugs, like when they're babies. Even if they grow up to be exclusive plant eaters. Hummingbirds will consume small insects while they drink nectar. Animals in general aren't too fussy about what they eat. As long as it doesn't cause their stomach's distress they will continue to eat it.

carnivorousplant
04-02-2009, 06:19 PM
Don't think of it as Mr. Bunny, think of it as Hopping Haggis.

:)

Frylock
04-02-2009, 06:53 PM
I had a cat whose absolute favorite snack, hands down, was romaine lettuce.

Unfortunately, there was a coyote in the area at the time whose absolute favorite snack, hands down, was cat.

KneadToKnow
04-02-2009, 07:02 PM
Unfortunately, there was a coyote in the area at the time whose absolute favorite snack, hands down, was cat.

Awwwwww. Poor bunnykitty.

KarlGrenze
04-02-2009, 07:16 PM
Yes, hypercarnivores (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypercarnivore) like dolphins, eagles, snakes, marlin, most sharks, and octopuses.

Just to make something clear: When we're talking about meat, we're not talking just about the muscles that we, humans, generally refer to as meat, but ALL THE FREAKING ANIMAL. The carnivores are not going to discern between a piece of leg muscle, the muscle around the spine, heart, liver, and guts. They're going to eat from everything.

This is a somewhat important distinction to make, as some pet owners confuse the two and then feed their dog/cat just muscle parts, leading to nutritional deficiencies.

And some raptors and snakes, at least when sick, can be force fed calorie dense goop with the nutritional requirements they need.

Roadfood
04-02-2009, 07:17 PM
But then I'd have to deal with that brain-damaging dik-dook sound. Aaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

;)TiVo's have an option to turn that off, you know. First thing I did when I got my TiVo was to turn off the sounds. (Sorry for the hijack, I'm just fighting ignorance on a different topic).

Zsofia
04-02-2009, 07:43 PM
Lord knows, I've been feeding my cats a raw food diet, and while Flavors of Tuscany it ain't, there is a crapload more in it than chicken breasts. Turns out it's a lot more work to build a mouse than it is to catch one and eat it. (No vegetables or grains, however, which is the point for my kitty with the gross poops. Of course, he's the one who taught the others how to get into bags of potato chips, bags of crackers, and bags of goddamned bread.)

carnivorousplant
04-02-2009, 08:51 PM
Mrs. Plant, Worlds Greatest Dog Maven, feeds a raw diet to her dogs.
It is 33% vegetable matter, but it is cooked or run through a food processor to make it like Mr. Bunny's veggie filled gut.

dropzone
04-02-2009, 09:17 PM
She once jumped up on the stove and took several bites from a pan of cornbread.Corn is an ingredient of most dry cat foods. She smelled the corn and said, "Oh! That must be for me!" But since that seems to be a cat's attitude about the universe and everything in it, it can be expected.

Aspidistra
04-02-2009, 09:21 PM
I tend to assume that cat food manufacturers are adding vegetables more and more often to their products because it's cheaper and bulkier than the equivalent in meat.

And then they advertise this to us as a Good Thing for the same sorts of reasons that your phone company tells you it's "for your convenience" that they've halved your free minutes and taken away your itemized billing.

dropzone
04-02-2009, 09:23 PM
I'd ask about this raw diet, er, stuff (my wife won't feed our dogs any raw meat for health reasons, but she also won't feed them, or us, soybeans because they are "not good for you), but I'd probably regret it. It's the same reason I don't delve too deeply into her soy phobia and sneak a half-soy burger from the AM/PM when I feel the urge. Yes, bad dorm food ruined my taste.

Zsofia
04-02-2009, 10:41 PM
I'd ask about this raw diet, er, stuff (my wife won't feed our dogs any raw meat for health reasons, but she also won't feed them, or us, soybeans because they are "not good for you), but I'd probably regret it. It's the same reason I don't delve too deeply into her soy phobia and sneak a half-soy burger from the AM/PM when I feel the urge. Yes, bad dorm food ruined my taste.
I don't do it for my dog (couldn't afford it, as much as he eats!), just for the cats. I use the recipe on catnutrition.org, although I've been unable to source chicken hearts and refuse to mail order them on principle so I add taurine. If anybody's interested, the ingredients are:

Raw meaty bones (I usually use chicken thighs) with skin and fat and all that that comes on them
Liver
Hearts or taurine
Egg yolks
Glandular supplement
Salmon oil
Vitamin B-complex
Vitamin E
Optional - kelp, dulse, and psyllium for fiber

The litter box improvement has got to be seen to believed. However, it is a giant pain in the ass and requires a meat grinder. Also, it's really gross to make, especially the part where you clean the meat grinder.

Valgard
04-02-2009, 11:45 PM
I don't do it for my dog (couldn't afford it, as much as he eats!), just for the cats. I use the recipe on catnutrition.org, although I've been unable to source chicken hearts and refuse to mail order them on principle so I add taurine. If anybody's interested, the ingredients are:

Raw meaty bones (I usually use chicken thighs) with skin and fat and all that that comes on them
Liver
Hearts or taurine
Egg yolks
Glandular supplement
Salmon oil
Vitamin B-complex
Vitamin E
Optional - kelp, dulse, and psyllium for fiber

The litter box improvement has got to be seen to believed. However, it is a giant pain in the ass and requires a meat grinder. Also, it's really gross to make, especially the part where you clean the meat grinder.

At some point it's got to be easier (and more enjoyable for the cats) to just provide them with live mice.

Darwin's Finch
04-02-2009, 11:53 PM
It's worth noting (or, perhaps not...) that cats are both carnivores and Carnivores.

Also, not all carnivores are Carnivores, nor are all Carnivores carnivores.

Anne Neville
04-03-2009, 07:52 AM
Corn is an ingredient of most dry cat foods. She smelled the corn and said, "Oh! That must be for me!"

I give her a good dry cat food, where chicken is the first ingredient. But what she really likes is cheap treats where the first ingredient is corn (I have tried to explain the whole carnivore thing to her, but she doesn't listen). The smell of the cornbread probably reminded her of the treats.

She knows she's not allowed on the counters or the stove. Usually she's pretty good about it. But now if we make cornbread we put foil over it, just in case...

tullsterx
04-03-2009, 09:19 AM
All right.

So it's the un-learning option. I can live with that, hate it though I do when it comes to dumb-ass commercials.

Thanks, all.


Really? Sound like you were correct. Cat don't need veggies.

Bookkeeper
04-03-2009, 09:38 AM
Are there any carnivores that only ever eat meat (or even that never eat anything but meat if meat is available)? I tend to doubt it.

For native North American mammals, Polar bears are the closest - they normally eat only meat (and whatever plant matter is in the guts of the occassional non-marine mammal prey, but their preferred food is seal, who are carnivores themselves).

All other native North American mammals include a greater or lesser amount of plant food as a standard part of their diet. On the flip side, the only native North American herbivore which appears to be exclusively herbivorous is the groundhog - all others have been observed in the wild to eat meat when available (including observations of caribou scarfing up migrating lemmings! and I have personally seen a cute little chipmunk detour on his way back for another handout of peanuts to pounce on and quickly consume a large caterpillar.)

Irishman
04-03-2009, 10:09 AM
I was going to post that when they kill Mr. Bunny, they rip his tummy open and eat his gut and it's contents.
Guess I did anyway.

You killed Mr. Bunny and ate his guts? :eek:

;)


Just to make something clear: When we're talking about meat, we're not talking just about the muscles that we, humans, generally refer to as meat, but ALL THE FREAKING ANIMAL. The carnivores are not going to discern between a piece of leg muscle, the muscle around the spine, heart, liver, and guts. They're going to eat from everything.

Yes. The most telling example of this was coming home to find half a squirrel - the lower half. I mean, a clean severed line somewhere in the abdomen. Ah, cats! I'm sure she just wanted to share.

RiverRunner
04-03-2009, 10:18 AM
Don't think of it as Mr. Bunny, think of it as Hopping Haggis.

Funniest thing I've seen all week!


Corn is an ingredient of most dry cat foods. She smelled the corn and said, "Oh! That must be for me!" But since that seems to be a cat's attitude about the universe and everything in it, it can be expected.

The late, mostly-lamented Ahab -- he was evil, but I miss him anyway -- would bite through bread bags to chew the bread inside them, leaving us with a copiously-perforated bag of bread crumbs. He would also do whatever it took to get into the pound cake my wife's grandfather would bake. Apparently, Ahab had a wheat addiction or something.

RR

gigi
04-03-2009, 11:39 AM
She knows she's not allowed on the counters or the stove. Usually she's pretty good about it. But now if we make cornbread we put foil over it, just in case...

Luna: Blast! Foiled again! <sounds like Meow, Meow>

emmaliminal
04-03-2009, 11:44 AM
The late, mostly-lamented Ahab -- he was evil, but I miss him anyway -- would bite through bread bags to chew the bread inside them, leaving us with a copiously-perforated bag of bread crumbs. One of ours does this with all kinds of processed grain and potato products. It's hard to tell how much of the attraction is the taste, and how much is the sheer joy of killing something in a crinkly bag. Everything like that goes in a cupboard nowadays.

... now if we make cornbread we put foil over it, just in case...And... this stops her? :dubious:

Anne Neville
04-03-2009, 11:54 AM
And... this stops her? :dubious:

Foil is one of those things that is supposed to repel cats. Supposedly they don't like the sound it makes when they walk on it or when it crumples. I think Luna might be immune to that, though, as well as not minding the scent of citrus (cats supposedly don't like the smell of citrus, but Luna begs for lemons).

The foil would at least make it so that we could hear her getting into the cornbread, if we were at home and on the first floor, so we could go into the kitchen and shoo her off.

emmaliminal
04-03-2009, 12:19 PM
Foil is one of those things that is supposed to repel cats. Huh. I didn't know that. We throw wadded-up balls of foil for ours to chase -- being sort of round but not very, foil balls roll in a nice erratic prey-like manner.

I had heard about the citrus thing, and have found it useful but limited: If the bad kitty (http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2624876200045159264iZmSuo?vhost=pets) is in a peeing-on-things mood, something that smells thoroughly of citrus by way of a liberal sprinkling of essential oil is less likely to get peed on than the same item without the oil. The effect lasts about two days before I need to sprinkle more oil. Lavender oil doesn't have the same effect.

Mariemarie
04-03-2009, 12:31 PM
I wanted to be the first in this thread to post the kitty pic (http://www.flickr.com/photos/37022623@N05/3409940020/). Darn you, emmaliminal! (Those kittens are too cute!)

Anne Neville
04-03-2009, 12:31 PM
I had heard about the citrus thing, and have found it useful but limited: If the bad kitty (http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2624876200045159264iZmSuo?vhost=pets) is in a peeing-on-things mood

Awww, she's a pretty kitty!

To her credit, Luna's peeing outside the litter box seems to be limited to when she has a urinary tract infection (knocks on wood). She peed on my down coat this winter, but some antibiotics from the vet seem to have fixed that problem.

Corner Case
04-03-2009, 01:31 PM
What? Cats don't like to go for a little Italian as well?It is considered distasteful according to the Geneva Convention to feed Danny DeVito or Rhea Perlman to cats. Though it is apparently good for their diets

Orpington
04-03-2009, 02:38 PM
It's worth noting (or, perhaps not...) that cats are both carnivores and Carnivores.

Also, not all carnivores are Carnivores, nor are all Carnivores carnivores.

Ah, well put. So accurate, yet concise.
I was considering going into a long-winded explanation of how many surprising animal families are members of Carnivora, yet who have adapted to a largely plant-based diet. Dogs are one example - in the wild they eat lots of meat, but there's nothing besides calorie density that they can't also get from plants. Cats, on the other hand, are true carnivores who must have at least some animal products in their diet. And I once heard someone comment that there are no true herbivores, only "opportunistic omnivores", given that most creatures eat lots of bugs unintentionally, not to mention the various stories of squirrel eats baby bird, deer eats cow-skull, etc.

As to strange plant matter eaten by domestic cats - who knows? In addition to my own cats and those of family & friends, I have been acquainted with hundreds of cats in my >5 years employment with veterinarians, including >3 years at a cat-only practice, and I have heard all kinds of stories of kitty's favorite vegetable... My impression is that most cats don't really go for fruits & vegetables in general, but most have one or two they might go nuts over. I had one who loved cooked carrots. Many people report kitty loves ripe cantaloupe or watermelon. Or pumpkin or winter squash (which are good fiber sources if kitty has intestinal issues). Or strawberries. And the bread products do seem popular too, though really grains are probably the most unhealthy thing commonly present in cat food. (BTW, Zsofia, you can buy canned catfood with no grains - lots easier than making a raw diet at home, probably about the same price; more than normal food of course. And can't you find whole chickens with hearts in their giblet package? Or does the recipe require more than one heart per chicken?) I've never met a cat who didn't like some kind of chips - whether tortilla or corn depends on the cat, but I suspect it might actually be the oil & salt they're going after. I used to think my cats loved sweet potatoes because if I left the skins out they'd drag them off the counter and I'd find a kitchen of kitties devouring the sweet potato skin as if it were a gazelle or something... But then I tried to give them a piece once that was unbuttered & unsalted and they walked away from it.
Another thing that's usually a good cat repellent is mint. I have used this successfully on 6 cats out of 7, then I managed to acquire a weirdo cat who loves it. She goes nuts over mint ice cream (even more than other dairy) and tries to get inside my mouth if I just brushed my teeth. The other cats actually give her "you're crazy, man" looks.

Auntbeast
04-03-2009, 04:41 PM
My cat adores broccoli. We found this out after my daughter found a youtube video of a cat eating broccoli. Then again, we either refer to her as the room mate or our 3rd dog. She is the least cat like cat I've ever seen. She also likes pasta.

Then again, the dogs like her poop, so in that regard, she is firmly in the cat territory.

FWIW, I think people that force their dogs/cats to be vegetarians should be smacked in the head with frozen turkeys. Pointy teeth? MEAT.

DesertDog
04-03-2009, 08:15 PM
I give her a good dry cat food, where chicken is the first ingredient. But what she really likes is cheap treats where the first ingredient is corn (I have tried to explain the whole carnivore thing to her, but she doesn't listen). The smell of the cornbread probably reminded her of the treats.Obviously, she misheard you -- thought you were saying "cornivore."

Zsofia
04-03-2009, 10:34 PM
I need more heart than one per chicken, although I suppose they're probably playing it safe, as taurine is the big thing they need. Also, cutting up a whole chicken sucks ass and is Even Grosser than grinding thighs.

Stokie was on a prescription diet just for kitties with Bad Poop - it worked in the beginning, sort of, but lost its efficacy. Maybe this will too, but frankly the improvement in the poop of all three kitties is pretty wonderful. And at least this way I know damned well what's in their food - I'm sure the expensive fancy-ass canned foods are all well and good, but I know there's no melamine in their food now. Maybe I'll give it up and start buying pre-prepared, but as it is now I'm okay with it and the cats couldn't be happier and healthier.

ETA - I apologize, I obviously forgot the musical interlude.

Ya gotta have heart! All you need is heart!

paperbackwriter
04-04-2009, 12:37 PM
It might be easier to by some B.A.R.F. (http://www.barfworld.com/html/learn_more/what_is_barf.shtml) for your cat, since that's basically what you're making yourself.

(Yes, that's really what it's called. No, I'm not making this up.)

Ponfarr
04-04-2009, 09:57 PM
Originally Posted by tdn
Is this the commercial that talks about the Flavors of Tuscany? Because there is far more wrong with that than just the vegetables. Namely, there is a cat food that has the Flavors of Tuscany.

What? Cats don't like to go for a little Italian as well?

Only Topo Giggio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topo_Gigio).

Or AT Topo Giggio's (http://www.topogigiochicago.com/). Which, by the way, I recommend to humans far more frequently than I do to cats. Even cats I like.

Hi everyone, new to the board. And obviously not yet aware of how to double quote. Give me time.

Oukile
04-05-2009, 03:54 AM
Cats are carnivores. Sure, they can make energy out of carbohydrates, e.g. potatoes, but if they don't get meat they will get deficiencies in a few days. As mentionned previously, they will get taurine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taurine#Taurine_and_cats) deficiencies because they can't synthetize it and they won't find it in vegetables.

Donovan
04-05-2009, 05:55 AM
I may have related this one before, sorry if I am repeating myself -
how's this for a weird cat - my roommate's cat will eat only processed cat food and plants. Any plant I have brought in the house will be eaten and puked up. Any time I turn my back on a salad or raw vegetable I put on the kitchen table, he is up there trying to eat it or at least giving it a good sniffing over. However, I can put meat down on the same table and he doesn't care. I have offered him tuna, chicken, beef (both raw and cooked) in the same way I will offer him a cat treat and he is simply not interested. He just doesn't seem to be interested in meat (ONCE I got him to drink the water out of the bottom of a tuna can, but I suspect he was doing that simply to block out/piss off my other roommate's cat, who is gonzo about meat and 'tuna water'). He is a great mouser, but all he does is a modified catch and release where he catches the mouse, runs up two flights of stairs to my roommates bedroom, and lets him go in my roommate's bed. He was rescued as as a tiny, apparently malnourished kitten who hung out behind the bar my roommate worked at for about a week before my roomate decided he would freeze/starve and took him home, so I think he had experience eating stuff other than cat food... just bizarre, imho. Another weird thing is that, despite the trauma of going to the vet numerous times in his life, any time you bring out his cat carrier, he runs over and climbs inside. Never seen a cat treat a cat carrier as anything other than a tool of Satan before. All in all, a rather weird cat.

jjimm
04-05-2009, 06:36 AM
I remind my Luna that she is a carnivore every time she begs for something that isn't meat. She listens about as well as she listens to anything else I tell her. She once jumped up on the stove and took several bites from a pan of cornbread.Cookie Monster ate half a cookie the other day - it took her nine years to grow into her name. And in the past, she's eaten a grape and some chocolate.

Think she's got an eating disorder.

Zsofia
04-05-2009, 11:48 AM
It might be easier to by some B.A.R.F. (http://www.barfworld.com/html/learn_more/what_is_barf.shtml) for your cat, since that's basically what you're making yourself.

(Yes, that's really what it's called. No, I'm not making this up.)
Those premade raw food diets are EXPENSIVE. Plus, I kind of like knowing what goes in the stuff. It's the same grade of food as I eat. They do NOT get organic. :)

Pyper
04-05-2009, 10:16 PM
I may have related this one before, sorry if I am repeating myself -
how's this for a weird cat - my roommate's cat will eat only processed cat food and plants. Any plant I have brought in the house will be eaten and puked up. Any time I turn my back on a salad or raw vegetable I put on the kitchen table, he is up there trying to eat it or at least giving it a good sniffing over. However, I can put meat down on the same table and he doesn't care. I have offered him tuna, chicken, beef (both raw and cooked) in the same way I will offer him a cat treat and he is simply not interested.

My cat is the exact same way - kibble and vegetables, nothing else.

SeaDragonTattoo
04-06-2009, 09:24 PM
Huh. I didn't know that. We throw wadded-up balls of foil for ours to chase -- being sort of round but not very, foil balls roll in a nice erratic prey-like manner.

They like to bat the foil balls around, but if you lay a flat piece of foil over a chair cushion, for instance, they won't stay on it. (so they say-haven't tried it myself)

As to the raw diet, the next best alternative IMHO is Innova EVO. It's kibble, but only 7% carbohydrates. It was my next-least-expensive option to feeding both an IBD cat and a diabetic cat. The IBD cat was finally able to solidify her stool and gain some weight, and the diabetic cat went into remission.

It sounds expensive on a by-the-pound comparison to traditional kibble, but it's extremely calorie dense. (600 calories per cup) Adult indoor moderately active cats consume about 200 calories a day (at least mine do), so it's just 1/3 of a cup a day TOTAL that they get. None of them are fat, and it's just about $30 a month to feed them (3 cats). Cheaper than the cheapest filler-filled canned food. I meal-feed them 1/6 of a cup twice a day. I tell everyone I have a chance to about this food, it's really close to the top of the list of the best you can buy.

Orpington
04-07-2009, 12:02 PM
They like to bat the foil balls around, but if you lay a flat piece of foil over a chair cushion, for instance, they won't stay on it. (so they say-haven't tried it myself)

As to the raw diet, the next best alternative IMHO is Innova EVO. It's kibble, but only 7% carbohydrates. It was my next-least-expensive option to feeding both an IBD cat and a diabetic cat. The IBD cat was finally able to solidify her stool and gain some weight, and the diabetic cat went into remission.

It sounds expensive on a by-the-pound comparison to traditional kibble, but it's extremely calorie dense. (600 calories per cup) Adult indoor moderately active cats consume about 200 calories a day (at least mine do), so it's just 1/3 of a cup a day TOTAL that they get. None of them are fat, and it's just about $30 a month to feed them (3 cats). Cheaper than the cheapest filler-filled canned food. I meal-feed them 1/6 of a cup twice a day. I tell everyone I have a chance to about this food, it's really close to the top of the list of the best you can buy.

I second the EVO recommendation. The last vet I worked for (who was pretty traditional, but open to some "natural" ideas) actually started carrying it instead of the prescription high-protein foods for diabetic cats. It was the only non-prescription food she carried, but otherwise the closest place for clients to get it was 20 miles or so away a few suburbs over, and most of them just wouldn't drive any further than the nearest Petco or Petsmart. We did actually see several diabetic cats go into remission as well (to be fair, we also saw it happen on the prescription diabetic foods, but they were both more expensive and contain some more questionable ingredients). I'm interested to hear that it helped your IBD cat, though, since the most frequent side effect we heard was that it caused nasty smelly diarrhea (and in fact it does this in one of my IBD cats too - of course it's the fuzzy-bottomed one - ick!). The company told us that it usually only causes diarrhea when overfed, and this did seem to be somewhat true. But it reinforces the idea that you really need to feed mealtimes, not free-fed, and monitor the quantity. EVO's canned food is great too (I never really worked out the price comparison to the dry, just decided to go with mostly canned because it never causes diarrhea in my cats). If you can't find EVO, there's one called Instinct (I think it's by Nature's Variety, can't remember right now) that's also high protein, no-grain, and Wellness makes one called "Core". And Solid Gold makes "Indigo Moon". I kind of rotate my cats through these as an occasional treat instead of their canned food. They love them all.) And I think there are a few others that are equally good, but harder to find. (You can get Wellness at Petco and Whole Foods, Solid Gold at Petco, and the others I've really only seen in pet specialty stores.) Be careful - all these companies make "normal" catfood too - it's natural and probably higher quality than regular food, but still contains too many grains and too low a protein content, in my opinion. You have to read the labels to be sure what you're getting.

Terraplane
04-07-2009, 03:49 PM
If all you have near you is a Petsmart, Blue Buffalo Wilderness is another good choice. It's comparable to the good foods Orpington posted.

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