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View Full Version : Dollhouse.......renewed?


Mahaloth
05-15-2009, 03:49 PM
All the entertainment sites are buzzing that Dollhouse may actually be renewed for a thirteen episode second season.

Variety Article "Fox Close to Renewing Dollhouse" (http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118003720.html?categoryid=14&cs=1)

Please, please, please, please be true!

:eek:

:D

mr. jp
05-15-2009, 04:32 PM
Meh. It's ok. But it could've been Firefly.

Khadaji
05-15-2009, 05:28 PM
Twickster posted a link to an article by a hollywood insider a few weeks back. That link is reporting: Prospects brightening.

Lakai
05-15-2009, 07:16 PM
I want them to put it out of its misery. Whedon should work for a network that appreciates his work. Another half a season airing on Friday doesn't sound good at all.

Bridget Burke
05-15-2009, 07:19 PM
I want them to put it out of its misery. Whedon should work for a network that appreciates his work. Another half a season airing on Friday doesn't sound good at all.

What misery? What offers has Whedon turned down recently?

Why should he refuse a 13 show deal (http://www.deadlinehollywooddaily.com/primetime-pilot-panic-fox-gives-joss-whedons-dollhouse-2nd-season/)?

I just got official word on this. (THR's James Hibberd reported earlier today that Fox was "leaning" towards doing this.) This may look like an underdog comeback to some, but Joss Whedon is a huge talent with a rabid fanbase so FBC is smart to give Dollhouse more time to grow an audience.

Lots of us are happy to hear this....

DaphneBlack
05-15-2009, 07:23 PM
I think 13 episodes is about the ideal length for a TV season, actually. Fewer filler episodes are required, and there's more time to plan things out in advance (presumably).

The thing about Dollhouse is, though I enjoy it, I don't see huge multi-season potential. Three 13-ep seasons seems about right. It doesn't seem as infinitely expandable and captivating a world as Buffy, Angel, or Firefly.

The Controvert
05-15-2009, 08:01 PM
It could be the rose colored glasses of nostalgia making you think that Buffy and Angel were more captivating worlds than Dollhouse. Based on the only their respective first seasons, both Buffy and Angel didn't seem like very expansive shows compared to Dollhouse.

Buffy was formulaic to their monster of the week and Angel was about some stupid ouchy vision telling him who needs help. Both shows found their footing by season 2 but didn't really become legendary until season 3 or 4. Let's not kneecap Dollhouse based on only 13 eps.

mswas
05-15-2009, 08:52 PM
Buffy and Angel I thought were incredibly stupid from start to finish. I never saw an episode that didn't make me think, "Vampire 90210". Joss Whedon went to another level with Firefly and hit on something much more interesting. Dollhouse is good and it just got really interesting. I think it's found it's legs, and I am interested in seeing where it leads. The 'Good guys/Bad Guys' dynamic in Buffy/Angel just never appealed to me, too simplistic.

IMO if you are comparing Dollhouse to Buffy and Angel you are comparing a show for adults to shows for Tweens. Just not really a fair comparison.

Lakai
05-15-2009, 09:06 PM
IMO if you are comparing Dollhouse to Buffy and Angel you are comparing a show for adults to shows for Tweens. Just not really a fair comparison.

Angel was an adult show. One guy has continuous sex with a villain on the show because he's lost all his friends and the woman is the only thing that makes him feel better. He also makes her dress up like the girl he is in love with when they have sex. The woman knows this and goes along with it. Not exactly what tweens watch these days.

Bridget Burke, the misery I'm talking about is Fox not giving Whedon's shows a fair chance. They already ruined the first five episodes of this series, what are the chances they won't interfere with the next season?

DaphneBlack
05-15-2009, 09:13 PM
Oh, I'm not meaning to kneecap it. I'm certainly willing to be proven wrong, it's just the feeling I have so far. I trust Whedon to surprise me, and probably in a good way!

Mahaloth
05-15-2009, 09:17 PM
Yep, it is nearly official. It will be back. :)

Fox will announce the renewal on Monday. (http://www.thrfeed.com/2009/05/dollhouse-second-season.html)

Mahaloth
05-15-2009, 09:19 PM
Oh, and Scrubs is coming back too....weird.

mswas
05-15-2009, 11:54 PM
Angel was an adult show. One guy has continuous sex with a villain on the show because he's lost all his friends and the woman is the only thing that makes him feel better. He also makes her dress up like the girl he is in love with when they have sex. The woman knows this and goes along with it. Not exactly what tweens watch these days.

Ok, fair enough, risque sexual situations overlaid atop a simplistic morality play.

There is of course an unwritten rule in Hollywood these days that the demographic they are officially going for is actually the cohort below the one they claim they are trying to reach. Like Hannah Montana is for Tweens but really it's for the 6-9 set. Shows aimed at 3-5 year olds are watched by 2-4 year olds.

Lobohan
05-16-2009, 12:05 AM
Buffy and Angel I thought were incredibly stupid from start to finish. I never saw an episode that didn't make me think, "Vampire 90210". Joss Whedon went to another level with Firefly and hit on something much more interesting. Dollhouse is good and it just got really interesting. I think it's found it's legs, and I am interested in seeing where it leads. The 'Good guys/Bad Guys' dynamic in Buffy/Angel just never appealed to me, too simplistic.

IMO if you are comparing Dollhouse to Buffy and Angel you are comparing a show for adults to shows for Tweens. Just not really a fair comparison.Buffy was pretty far from a children's show. If you think it's simplistic Good guys/Bad Guys, you have, I would say, missed the point.

More likely you didn't watch enough episodes to get the dynamic. I'm gong to prescribe the first two seasons, watch them and get back to me. :D

On topic: I wants me some season 2 dollhouse already.

Lakai
05-16-2009, 12:16 AM
Ok, fair enough, risque sexual situations overlaid atop a simplistic morality play.

Simplistic? What's your definition of simple?

Wesley basically lost Angel's kid to a hell dimension and then Angel tries to kill him. He then became isolated and had frequent sex with an evil lawyer who he fought against for two seasons. Still in love with Fred, who abandoned him with Angel, he makes the Wolfram lawyer dress up like her while they fuck.

Name a TV drama that gets more complicated than that? Ok, Dollhouse is more complicated, but there is very little else that's more complicated.

El_Kabong
05-16-2009, 07:58 AM
Whee! Great news if true. The series didn't really hit its stride until the second half of its abbreviated season. It's just gonna be a long wait if they don't get the next set of eps out until mid-season.

I have no idea whether this factored into the decision, but I have the impression that the show has been wildly popular on Hulu, offsetting somewhat the low roadcast ratings.

Tarwater
05-16-2009, 08:12 AM
Buffy was pretty far from a children's show. If you think it's simplistic Good guys/Bad Guys, you have, I would say, missed the point.

More likely you didn't watch enough episodes to get the dynamic. I'm gong to prescribe the first two seasons, watch them and get back to me. :D


Nope. I think his assessment is pretty much spot-on.

DaphneBlack
05-16-2009, 12:33 PM
There seems to be something of a trend this year of more marginal shows being renewed -- Nathan Fillion's Castle and Better Off Ted have also gotten the greenlight from ABC; Friday Night Lights from NBC, and possibly Chuck.

I wonder what could be behind this new approach?

Justin_Bailey
05-16-2009, 12:58 PM
I wonder what could be behind this new approach?

I think DVD sales and Hulu views of all of these shows are through the roof. Well Friday Night Lights has their guardian angel in DirecTV.

But it gives me hope for the future of The Sarah Connor Chronicles.

Knorf
05-16-2009, 01:15 PM
Yay! I agree it's not Firefly, but it held my interest. I'm very happy about the renewal.

DaphneBlack
05-16-2009, 01:48 PM
I think DVD sales and Hulu views of all of these shows are through the roof. Well Friday Night Lights has their guardian angel in DirecTV.


You're probably right about hulu and DVD. iTunes as well I bet. I've wondered idly a few times if Dollhouse wouldn't fare better on cable -- FX maybe? I don't know. Part of me hopes that it means the networks are becoming more sophisticated in their approach, but that's probably too optimistic.

Lakai
05-16-2009, 03:26 PM
You're probably right about hulu and DVD. iTunes as well I bet. I've wondered idly a few times if Dollhouse wouldn't fare better on cable -- FX maybe? I don't know. Part of me hopes that it means the networks are becoming more sophisticated in their approach, but that's probably too optimistic.

Well, the networks never really had data from internet and DVR sources before. All they had were Nielsen ratings, which were based on a small sample size of the population. From Hulu and DVRs they don't have to use sample sizes and can figure out exactly how many people are watching the shows using these devices.

Since Hulu is now apparently a cash cow (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/74ab11da-b415-11dd-8e35-0000779fd18c.html?nclick_check=1), the fact that a show does well within its ranks will likely work in favor of renewal. That and Hulu's profits are only set to increase as more and more viewers start watching shows online.

mswas
05-16-2009, 04:13 PM
Simplistic? What's your definition of simple?

The entire premise was that he had to be 'good' to redeem himself for his 'bad' past.

Wesley basically lost Angel's kid to a hell dimension and then Angel tries to kill him. He then became isolated and had frequent sex with an evil lawyer who he fought against for two seasons. Still in love with Fred, who abandoned him with Angel, he makes the Wolfram lawyer dress up like her while they fuck.

Not sure how this relates to the moral aspects of anything. Just sounds like a way to have kinky sex. Not something I am absolutely opposed to, but 90210 is based around complex love entanglements too.

Name a TV drama that gets more complicated than that? Ok, Dollhouse is more complicated, but there is very little else that's more complicated.

The Sopranos, The Shield, The Wire, Battlestar Galactica, Sleeper Cell, Lost, Kings (if it stays on course and doesn't get cancelled), Deadwood, Heroes.

I'm sorry to get down on something you like, but kinky sex doesn't make up for a lack of moral nuance. I never could get into Angel or Buffy, the acting was terrible and the stories never grabbed me. I thought Joss Whedon levelled up with Firefly and again has levelled up with Dollhouse, though I liked Firefly better than I like Dollhouse. I didn't see Firefly for a long time because I just wasn't aware of anything Whedon did because I'd written him off.

mswas
05-16-2009, 04:16 PM
There seems to be something of a trend this year of more marginal shows being renewed -- Nathan Fillion's Castle and Better Off Ted have also gotten the greenlight from ABC; Friday Night Lights from NBC, and possibly Chuck.

I wonder what could be behind this new approach?

Well for one thing networks were in the dark ages regarding how they measured their ratings. Nielsen is laughably obsolete. They had trouble projecting how much people watched on Hulu and via DVR, which is funny considering they could easily have REAL and not projected data on viewership based on viewer information that the provider could easily capture. They wouldn't have to rely on the Nielsen statistical analysis. Kind of comical in a way. As they learn to measure their non-Push formats they will change how they adapt to ratings.

Lakai beat me to it.

Lakai
05-16-2009, 05:45 PM
The entire premise was that he had to be 'good' to redeem himself for his 'bad' past.

Not sure how this relates to the moral aspects of anything. Just sounds like a way to have kinky sex. Not something I am absolutely opposed to, but 90210 is based around complex love entanglements too.

The moral aspect is in whether he should be having kinky sex with the enemy.

The Sopranos, The Shield, The Wire, Battlestar Galactica, Sleeper Cell, Lost, Kings (if it stays on course and doesn't get cancelled), Deadwood, Heroes.

I'm sorry to get down on something you like, but kinky sex doesn't make up for a lack of moral nuance. I never could get into Angel or Buffy, the acting was terrible and the stories never grabbed me. I thought Joss Whedon levelled up with Firefly and again has levelled up with Dollhouse, though I liked Firefly better than I like Dollhouse. I didn't see Firefly for a long time because I just wasn't aware of anything Whedon did because I'd written him off.

Fair enough. Looks like you want your shows to have moral conflicts that rival something like Battlestar Galactica. For that kind of conflict you would need flawed main characters, and Angel isn't that kind of a show. I wouldn't compare it to 90210, but I see what you are looking for.

I would say that in 90210 the moral conflicts are fake and so are the characters. In Angel the moral conflicts are pretty real, but the characters usually end up making the correct, but unrealistic choices.

DaphneBlack
05-16-2009, 06:06 PM
As much as I love Buffy and Angel, and I absolutely do, I have to agree that the production quality and acting on Firefly and Dollhouse are better. They are more 'mature' shows in some ways -- for one thing, they are the products of an older and wiser Whedon.

I missed some of the traditional Whedon witticisms in the early eps of Dollhouse, but they seem to have returned, at least somewhat.

mswas
05-16-2009, 08:24 PM
The moral aspect is in whether he should be having kinky sex with the enemy.

I love when presented with that quandary. ;)

Fair enough. Looks like you want your shows to have moral conflicts that rival something like Battlestar Galactica. For that kind of conflict you would need flawed main characters, and Angel isn't that kind of a show. I wouldn't compare it to 90210, but I see what you are looking for.

I do prefer stuff like BSG. Since you are being so calm and nice about me bashing your show I shall revoke calling it like 90210. ;) It just never hooked me.

I would say that in 90210 the moral conflicts are fake and so are the characters. In Angel the moral conflicts are pretty real, but the characters usually end up making the correct, but unrealistic choices.

I am not sure what this means.

The Devil's Grandmother
06-12-2009, 12:56 PM
Link contains very slight spoilers (http://popwatch.ew.com/popwatch/2009/06/joss-whedon-buffy-dollhouse-1.html?cnn=yes) Entertainment Weekly's Popwatch talks to Joss Whedon about season 2 Dollhouse.

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